Understanding the End of Days

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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,946
771
113
#21
I get so sick of doomsday prophecies based on imaginative interpretations of Daniel/Revelation/Thessalonians etc, etc.

First, show me where the word “Rapture” is in the Bible. Any Bible, except the Latin Bible Jerome translated, who barely understood Greek or Hebrew, and had a transliterated word, instead of “grasp, seize, hold,” for harpazio. ([FONT=&quot][/FONT]ἁρπαγησόμεθα[FONT=&quot])

These constant false scenerios, which do not come to pass make Christians look stupid and naive. The constant prophecying the end, when it never happens, is an insult to God.

Jesus told us to occupy till he comes. That means walking with him, preaching the gospel, caring for the sick, the poor and living for Christ. We should be doing this, whether Jesus returns today, or in a thousand years!

Scare tactics are not the way God chooses to meet people. At least, not these blasphemous pronouncements of the end, especially when the Bible specifically tells us we are not to know the time.

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But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone.” Matt 24:36

Do you know the hour, the day or even the year? Because then you know more than Jesus! And that is arrogant and not true! You simply are not an oracle of God. God has left us his Word, not so people can make up things based on a particular soteriology, to scare people into the Kingdom of God! Well, unless God truly saves them, they are not saved, and will walk away when the inevitable failure of these end times prophecies come to pass!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,280
1,179
113
#22
It is a burden to know with surety of the imminent destruction
of this world and the terrible tribulations coming upon all.

First for my unbelieving adult children and friends who are
in great peril of the wrath and judgment hanging above all
like the sword of Damocles ready to drop.

Second for all those foolish Americans who have bought the lie
of the pre-tribulation rapture and are waiting for the mother ship
to beam them up.
Not all Americans buy that......and you seem to hate Americans as much as you mouth them......
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,446
208
63
70
#23
The last days started in the time of the Apostles. John went further in saying that they were in the last Hour. SWho knows when the last days end apart from God?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
#24
John said he was living in the last hour of the last days - so it means we have to understand what the "last days" were about.

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
 
E

Ellsworth1943

Guest
#25
What's wrong with the Rapture being the first coming event before other Bible prophecies are fulfilled?

It is simply amazing how much animosity there is towards a Pre-Millennial Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Which is almost a clear indication that it is indeed the truth. The Rapture is shown to be imminent since the time that the Lord ascended up to Heaven.
.
While it may seem clear to you does not make it so.
It is clear to me that many events must take place first as prophesied in Scripture.
It is clear to me that the gathering of the saints happens at the return of Christ, at the LAST trump, and than the seven bowls of God's wrath is poured out on the unbelievers who are still alive.
We disagree.
My whole point is that some insist they know exactly when and how the end will come and that is just foolishness.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
#27
When was the end of age harvest?

Christ is spoken of as having the winnowing fork in his hand by John the Baptist:

Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

He's previously warned his hearers:

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

There is an "audience" related connection between the harvest and the "wrath to come".

John 4:35 “Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.

John's gospel helps us flesh out the timing and who is being harvested - "fields; for they are white already to harvest".

Mat 9:37 Then He *said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;

Mat 9:38 “Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”

I think we are well within reason to say the "labourers" were his apostles and disciples of the 1st century.

A slightly different view point of the tares and wheat:

Mat 22:3 “And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
.
.
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Mat 22:7 “But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.

This is an obvious allusion to 1st century Jerusalem.

The wedding and the harvest are all part and parcel of the same motif.
 
Dec 23, 2017
35
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#28
To Otherway210 + YOU ARE WRONG !!


I checked EW Bullinger and found out he applied a Spelling Substitution which was NOT CORRECT.


E.W. Bullinger's Companion Bible Notes
Daniel 12 Verse 4
shut = close up.
even to = until.
The Hebrew shut = to rove, turn about, despise.
Hence, to do despite (Ezekiel 16:57; Ezekiel 28:24, Ezekiel 28:26).


But if we spell sut with (= S), instead of with (= Sh),
the meaning is to swerve, turnaside, apostatise,
"those who turn aside", or revolters (Psalms 101:3.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
1,984
343
83
South Australia
adelaiderevival.com
#29
Not all Americans buy that......and you seem to hate Americans as much as you mouth them......
I don't hate Americans.
But it is just that for the last 40 years or so the U.S. is the
powerhouse of an ever evolving Christianity that has way way departed
from the simplicity of the gospel.
When it comes to new doctrines and even false doctrines U.S. Christianity
has the wealth and the media resources to spread it to the world.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#30
To: Locutus . These prophecies are Not past . They're meant to teach the Tribulation of Satan, and of Christ, and the Lords Day .to forewarn people.
If people are mislead to believe these are past prophesies , they'll be left defenseless against the deception.



1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time:
and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


The last time is the last days . The Bible only ever talks about the last hour, concerning the time before Jesus actually returns. John even mentions the one that comes before Christ, as 2 Thess 2 explains, Antichrist.
The seasons or signs in that last hour, John is teaching ( US ) what will befall the Christian during the tribulation.
Joel the prophet would be one, among all of them that taught about this in one form or another . Joel chapter 2 talks about the Locust army, Satans army thats also in Revelation 9.

For one, those in error, or deception, was a concern, and it was Christ's concern in Matthew 24, giving the first warning, about deception from other Christians . or those claiming to be.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.


Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.



Another Jesus is what rapture is leading everyone to . There is a reason Paul uses the term "" falling away "" because what is so popular just prior to the Tribulation ? Take a guess ...


Here is a good bible study resource, to get yourself up to speed if you're lagging behind .

http://mark13records.com/

 
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Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
1,984
343
83
South Australia
adelaiderevival.com
#31
to: OMEGA777 AND OTHERS -

1> there no futuristic 7 year covenant between Judah and some all-powerful
anti-Christ figure.
Daniel 9 is about Jesus' first visitation at the time of the Romans.
One week = 7 days = 7 years made up of 31/2 years of Jesus' ministry
plus 31/2 years until the new covenant is given to the gentiles (Acts 10)
Cornelius' household.
The rest of the verse is about the destruction of temple and the continued
desolation of the temple mount even until the consummation ...

Daniel 12:12 came to pass in 1917 AD

It is a tragedy that millions of people around the world have been deceived
about a rapture that will supposedly air-lift them out of harm's way when this
world burns in nuclear fire and whatever else is coming our way.
Ain't gonna happen. Then what will these people do?

When Jesus and scripture talk about the wrath not coming on the
saints it is not because true worshippers are whisked off to some
other place - a sanctuary in Heaven or whatever.
No true worshippers shall be saved and protected right here on
Earth whilst all this is happening because they have the indwelling Holy
Spirit and are sanctified or consecrated - set apart from the world.

It is faith and prayer that will save Christians not a rapture before
Jesus returns in power and glory with the angels.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#32
To: OMEGA777 . okay mister ancient bible linguist . take it up with the scholars. I dont care to debate the verses' Hebrew .
It fits prophecy: Seems correct to me ...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,280
1,179
113
#33
I don't hate Americans.
But it is just that for the last 40 years or so the U.S. is the
powerhouse of an ever evolving Christianity that has way way departed
from the simplicity of the gospel.
When it comes to new doctrines and even false doctrines U.S. Christianity
has the wealth and the media resources to spread it to the world.
I would agree with that....but for the record....I was raised in an imminent return before trib church<---the bible does not support this view.....post trib pre wrath is my stance....at the 7th trump....just saying...
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#35
To Waggles

Daniels prophesies, really cover it all. Christs first and Future second advent, and the Tribulation .
 
May 20, 2016
52
2
8
#36
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even till the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

And he said, Go your way, Daniel: for the words are closed and sealed till the time of the end.

None of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Daniel 12

These scriptures reveal when the time of the end has come, that at that time the wise shall know and understand perfectly what the truth is in those times.
By these scriptures I know that the time of the end has come and that nothing forbids our understanding of the end of days prophecies. As it is now when the knowledge is authorized to be given to all who have faith in Jesus and are wise.

Are you wise?

“and knowledge shall be increased” = not yet known in the last hundreds years ago, and we understood it well in this recent years .
For example in the first century no one knew that “salvation = by God’s Grace alone “, and hundreds years later it was understood well.

Jer23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly
Means : not yet known formerly , then if now we understand it (some of the thoughts of the Lord ) so we are stepping in in the later days.
 
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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
3,194
34
48
#37
I agree with everything you said until The end of the age was in the 1st century AD. That is certainly a defensible interpretation; but, the age could as easily refer to the 'church age'.
It all depends on what I ask you in another thread about if the Church was also "Judged" at that time(ad70)...

Our lord Jesus and Paul spoke of the "ages to come",Matthew 19:28-29,Mark 10:30,Luke 18:30,Luke 20:34-36 and Ephesians 2:7...

So did this harvest take place in ad70?

There's a lot of information to consider pondering it all that is, is the judgement of the church already finalized? Hmmm, Can one age end and another begin and one group be already judged and another's judgement future or are they both at the same time? Hmm, a lot of things to consider...
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#38
To: imsoandso ; whatever you consider, try not to take in too many opinions . Theres only one opinion that matters, and thats Gods Word . The tolerance for every doctrine in the world, has created the divisions we see in Christianity .
And im convinced not everyone who claimed to be of Christ is . Very few know the bible enough to tell if they're lighting the path, or darkening it with traditions of men . The enemy is at work, and there are now many chinks in the gospel armor among the body of believers.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
#39
Happy new year soandso...

Consider Peter's statement:

1 Pet 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

And James

James 5:9 Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.


 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,096
314
83
#40
It all depends on what I ask you in another thread about if the Church was also "Judged" at that time(ad70)...

Our lord Jesus and Paul spoke of the "ages to come",Matthew 19:28-29,Mark 10:30,Luke 18:30,Luke 20:34-36 and Ephesians 2:7...

So did this harvest take place in ad70?

There's a lot of information to consider pondering it all that is, is the judgement of the church already finalized? Hmmm, Can one age end and another begin and one group be already judged and another's judgement future or are they both at the same time? Hmm, a lot of things to consider...
Hello iamsoandso,

The harvest is described by the Lord to be when he returns to the earth to the end of the age, i.e. dismantle human government and establish his own, where at which time he will send out his angels to gather the weeds first and then gather in the wheat. Therefore, if the end of the age had already taken place, Christ would have already established his kingdom upon the earth and would have been physically and visually ruling from the throne of king David in Jerusalem according to the prophesies. So no, the harvest has not yet taken place and will not until after the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath.

The end of the age is not some passive event that will go by without anyone noticing and then continue on as it always has. The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. As Dan.2:31-45 describes, the Rock/Jesus that is cut out of the mountain without human hands, will fall on the feet of the statue, which represents all human government, with the feet with the ten toes being the last kingdom and will smash it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and blown away by the wind without leaving a trace, the end of human government. Then that Rock will become a huge mountain (kingdom) that will fill the whole earth, which is a description of the Lord's millennial kingdom.