Understanding the End of Days
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E
Please just give me the Scripture to answer the questions I asked.
There is a lot of symbolism in Revelation, but I do take it literally.
I just do not see what you see.
Who are these tribulation saints and where do they come from is there has already been a "rapture"?
And why do some escape the wrath while others do not?
If you believe this, there must be Scripture to proof it.
There is a lot of symbolism in Revelation, but I do take it literally.
I just do not see what you see.
Who are these tribulation saints and where do they come from is there has already been a "rapture"?
And why do some escape the wrath while others do not?
If you believe this, there must be Scripture to proof it.
E
You and I have had good discussions before and I expect the same now.
I believe every word of the Bible. I believe exactly what it says. I do not try to make say or imply or elude to something else.
I don't spiritualize the Scripture. I base my belief on what I read.
Last means last. Tribulation means tribulation. Wrath means wrath.
I believe every word of the Bible. I believe exactly what it says. I do not try to make say or imply or elude to something else.
I don't spiritualize the Scripture. I base my belief on what I read.
Last means last. Tribulation means tribulation. Wrath means wrath.
Hi, if I may interject, (I am undecided on the timing of the rapture myself so I'm not trying to convince you of anything)
But if you read Exodus 12, The Passover. God brought his wrath down on the Egyptians while Israel was still among them.
He was able to strike the Egyptians and protect Israel simultaneously. I believe it is the same in Revelation.
We have a mark on us (in the spirit). The blood of Jesus (the Passover lamb) is able to protect us from the wrath of God that we are not appointed for. There are people marked specifically in Revelation, some of them for The Beast but also the 144,000 first fruits of the Jews
are marked for protection. The people of God are marked by the blood and the wrath of God can PASS right OVER us.
See Exodus 12: 12-13
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
But if you read Exodus 12, The Passover. God brought his wrath down on the Egyptians while Israel was still among them.
He was able to strike the Egyptians and protect Israel simultaneously. I believe it is the same in Revelation.
We have a mark on us (in the spirit). The blood of Jesus (the Passover lamb) is able to protect us from the wrath of God that we are not appointed for. There are people marked specifically in Revelation, some of them for The Beast but also the 144,000 first fruits of the Jews
are marked for protection. The people of God are marked by the blood and the wrath of God can PASS right OVER us.
See Exodus 12: 12-13
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
Symbolism yes, but John saw, felt and heard what the Angels were telling him. This would make it far more real. Symbolize something you feel....... or something you see that is not like anything you have ever seen?
Please if you will, let me go through this by telling you why I believe what I do and if you have any questions, I can answer then?????
Ok, so John was taken to heaven (in the spirit) in Rev 4:1. This was not a dream as in Daniel, Jerimiah etc.
the Definition of "in the Spirit" does give some problems. However, if you remove the human spirit (soul), the Fleshly Body Dies. Therefore I submit that the Spirit causes the Body through a vast network of nerves and such to feel, hear, see, etc.......Our soul (spirit) thus has the ability to feel, see, hear, etc on its own.
So here we have John in Heaven as well as the Church (body of Christ) via the lampstands that were previously identified as representing the Church.
Can we agree on this?????
Please if you will, let me go through this by telling you why I believe what I do and if you have any questions, I can answer then?????
Ok, so John was taken to heaven (in the spirit) in Rev 4:1. This was not a dream as in Daniel, Jerimiah etc.
the Definition of "in the Spirit" does give some problems. However, if you remove the human spirit (soul), the Fleshly Body Dies. Therefore I submit that the Spirit causes the Body through a vast network of nerves and such to feel, hear, see, etc.......Our soul (spirit) thus has the ability to feel, see, hear, etc on its own.
So here we have John in Heaven as well as the Church (body of Christ) via the lampstands that were previously identified as representing the Church.
Can we agree on this?????
The Holy Ghost brings to rememberance what the scriptures says and guides the study.
I rely on the Authorized Version King James as the scriptures.
I know the scriptures can't be broken.
Private interpretation contradicts what God plainly states.
Often private interpretations require a person to change what is written.
I rely on the Authorized Version King James as the scriptures.
I know the scriptures can't be broken.
Private interpretation contradicts what God plainly states.
Often private interpretations require a person to change what is written.
If one believes that there will be a pre trib rapture then one believes that it will take place that it will happen once at a fixed point in time.
People will come to salvation after the rapture and will receive protection and comfort from God but the opportunity to escape the suffering of the Tribulation would have been missed.
Prophesy from Chinese churches translated by electronic translator and corrected for plain English
The Lord sais to His beloved, joint prophesy from different churches:
In the beginning of this new year, I will release an immeasurable global revival that has not occurred since the apostolic era, in transforming the lives of many people. In this ingathering home I desire to revel my heart to everyone of you. There can be no separation, no sect, because I'M coming. So everyone of you will be vigilant as the enemy will do his best to take many of you back, but I know how to give each of you more power than the enemy, to stop what the enemy wants to do. The Lord sais to all of you: Be Hopeful and be ready to expect immeasurable things to happen from 2018. To those who do not understand the mysteries that are happening all over the world, I will give them my heart. The Lord sais to you: My heart is to ask you to lead the life of a good soldier, not to be ad ease but to be vigilant at attention. For everyone of you who is true to me I give you strength and strength. The next few months will see some great changes in the world. Don't be afraid because I'M coming. The Lord sais: Remember that you are experiencing the beginning of a disaster and that the beginning of a disaster is a disaster. You need to be loyal. I'M coming.
The Lord sais to have the heart to look forward to: I'M coming! Amen
The Lord sais to His beloved, joint prophesy from different churches:
In the beginning of this new year, I will release an immeasurable global revival that has not occurred since the apostolic era, in transforming the lives of many people. In this ingathering home I desire to revel my heart to everyone of you. There can be no separation, no sect, because I'M coming. So everyone of you will be vigilant as the enemy will do his best to take many of you back, but I know how to give each of you more power than the enemy, to stop what the enemy wants to do. The Lord sais to all of you: Be Hopeful and be ready to expect immeasurable things to happen from 2018. To those who do not understand the mysteries that are happening all over the world, I will give them my heart. The Lord sais to you: My heart is to ask you to lead the life of a good soldier, not to be ad ease but to be vigilant at attention. For everyone of you who is true to me I give you strength and strength. The next few months will see some great changes in the world. Don't be afraid because I'M coming. The Lord sais: Remember that you are experiencing the beginning of a disaster and that the beginning of a disaster is a disaster. You need to be loyal. I'M coming.
The Lord sais to have the heart to look forward to: I'M coming! Amen
And each one of those local churches (at that time) represents the Churches as it has been down through the ages. Since all 7 lampstands are in Heaven, we can safely assume that there were those that were overcomers thus each church is represented in Heaven.
Those that overcome, are the Church or the Body of Christ. Thus the Church (Body of Christ) is in Heaven when John gets there.
Those that overcome, are the Church or the Body of Christ. Thus the Church (Body of Christ) is in Heaven when John gets there.
Nothing wrong with saying the Lampstands (churches) represent the Church and it's what I believe. While it doesn't say whether the seven candlesticks were connected to one base, it doesn't mater, what maters is the Lord walks among them and made clear in the bible: one church. Represents the troubles that are to be overcome in the church in a mystery. Many believe that Laodicea is mentioned last because it represent the affluence and self sufficiency of the end time, that the Lord is knocking on the door of that church, who is cough up with worldly wealth and indifferent towards Him and unprepared for the time of trouble such as never was. I suspect the knocking is increase in earthquakes prophesied, but don't mind me. Each of the seven names of the churches has a meaning, and each of the troubles has a meaning. For example the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes means dictator conqueror: Many churches were hired by the government to force natives in residential schools to learn the truth, God hates this because "Love does not insists on its own way," and you can see, or can you, that the churches were easily deceived, I think it was 5 different denominations that took on the job, so don't blame the Catholic either, we should take the blame we are the Church.
The ready and watching Church to use your phrase is supposed to be accompanied by the Holy Spirit when the rapture
happens according to the teaching and its because of this that the Antichrist is allowed to show himself. How may I ask
do the Trib Saints become Sanctified without him? The Rapture is according to those who believe this Scenario happens
when the Church is completed. Taking this literally means that when the very last person is saved before it happens the
Church is whisked away. In that case what status do the said tribulation Saints have? They cant be Jews and they cant belong to the Church. In my last post I asked you where the Church (Bride) is in Johns vision of Heaven if the millions he sees are a separate group.
The Jews pose a problem as well. There are many believing Jews in the here and now. Which neat group do they belong to? Do they stay behind or are they Raptured with the Church? They appear to have a foot in both camps at present if your beliefs about them are true. You say that God protects the believing Jews for three and a half years from all the wrath that you seem to increase with each telling. You insist that the Church must be Raptured before it all starts because they wouldnt survive. How come the believing Jews manage it? The following passage tells another story:
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem
aspirit of compassion and supplication, so that when they look on him whom
they pierced they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child and weep
bitterly over him as one weeps over a first born. On that day the mourning in
Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hahadrim in the plain of Meddigo
Zechariah 12:10-11
On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives
which lies before Jerusalem on the East and the Mount of Olives
shall split in two from East to West
Zechariah 14:4
Men of Galilee why do you stand looking to Heaven?
This Jesus who was taken up from you into Heaven
will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven
Acts 1:10
From what I read in Zechariah I see the salvation of the Jews happening at the second coming
It would be difficult to look on him who they pierced before he arrived. much of Zechariah deals
with the second coming.
The Acts quotation clearly states that Jesus will return in exactly the same place and way he left
If the much quoted passage about many mansions really supported a Pre Trib rapture the Angels
and Zechariah were lying. That passage refers to the millions of dead Christians who are with
Christ in Heaven that will come back with him and receive glorified bodies. They will include the
Apostles.
happens according to the teaching and its because of this that the Antichrist is allowed to show himself. How may I ask
do the Trib Saints become Sanctified without him? The Rapture is according to those who believe this Scenario happens
when the Church is completed. Taking this literally means that when the very last person is saved before it happens the
Church is whisked away. In that case what status do the said tribulation Saints have? They cant be Jews and they cant belong to the Church. In my last post I asked you where the Church (Bride) is in Johns vision of Heaven if the millions he sees are a separate group.
The Jews pose a problem as well. There are many believing Jews in the here and now. Which neat group do they belong to? Do they stay behind or are they Raptured with the Church? They appear to have a foot in both camps at present if your beliefs about them are true. You say that God protects the believing Jews for three and a half years from all the wrath that you seem to increase with each telling. You insist that the Church must be Raptured before it all starts because they wouldnt survive. How come the believing Jews manage it? The following passage tells another story:
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem
aspirit of compassion and supplication, so that when they look on him whom
they pierced they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child and weep
bitterly over him as one weeps over a first born. On that day the mourning in
Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hahadrim in the plain of Meddigo
Zechariah 12:10-11
On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives
which lies before Jerusalem on the East and the Mount of Olives
shall split in two from East to West
Zechariah 14:4
Men of Galilee why do you stand looking to Heaven?
This Jesus who was taken up from you into Heaven
will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven
Acts 1:10
From what I read in Zechariah I see the salvation of the Jews happening at the second coming
It would be difficult to look on him who they pierced before he arrived. much of Zechariah deals
with the second coming.
The Acts quotation clearly states that Jesus will return in exactly the same place and way he left
If the much quoted passage about many mansions really supported a Pre Trib rapture the Angels
and Zechariah were lying. That passage refers to the millions of dead Christians who are with
Christ in Heaven that will come back with him and receive glorified bodies. They will include the
Apostles.
In the same way that the OT saints were saved. The Holy Spirit will still be active on the earth, but the church in whom He indwelt will not be here.
Well first of all, you have the 24 elders who in part represent the church, you have the church represented as the bride in Rev.19:6-8. And you have the bride/church referred to as "the armies in heaven" and as the "called, chosen and faithful followers" as revealed in Rev.17:14 and 19:14 following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen that she will have previously received in Rev.19:6-8 at the wedding of the Lamb, which takes place in heaven.
Every Jew from the on-set of the church until this present time who have believed in Christ belong to the church. Those of Israel who remain under the law are those whom God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy 'sevens." Those in white robes which no man can count, will be Gentile's who become believers after the church has been gathered, as they are referred to as being from "every nation and tribe and people and language, i.e. Gentiles.
Because the church and the nation Israel are under different programs. God's protection of the church is His removal of them, while unbelieving Israel must fulfill that last seven years of that seventy sevens that were decreed upon them in Dan.9:24-27
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
The word "clouds" or any word for that manner, should not be restricted to one meaning, but should be determined by the context. As an example, we also have Jesus arriving on the clouds of heaven when He returns to the earth to end the age. So in both events we have clouds mentioned. I reiterate, since the wrath of God spans the entire seven years leading up to Christ's return to end the age and the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and is promised to be keep out of it, then the church, then the Lord's promise to gather His church must take place prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath.
Wherever the Lord returns to when He returns to end the age, the church be following behind on those white horses.
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
The above promise of the Lord coming to gather His church is described in detail by Paul in 1 Thes.4:13-18. In the scripture above, Jesus says that he is going to the Father's house to prepare places for us. Then He says that he will come back and take us to those places that he prepared for us in the Father's house. As the scripture states, the Lord will bring with him the Spirits of those who have died in him and the will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those still living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Once this takes place the entire church from beginning to end will meet the Lord in the air, where He will take the entire group back to the Father's house to those dwelling places.
Well first of all, you have the 24 elders who in part represent the church, you have the church represented as the bride in Rev.19:6-8. And you have the bride/church referred to as "the armies in heaven" and as the "called, chosen and faithful followers" as revealed in Rev.17:14 and 19:14 following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen that she will have previously received in Rev.19:6-8 at the wedding of the Lamb, which takes place in heaven.
Every Jew from the on-set of the church until this present time who have believed in Christ belong to the church. Those of Israel who remain under the law are those whom God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy 'sevens." Those in white robes which no man can count, will be Gentile's who become believers after the church has been gathered, as they are referred to as being from "every nation and tribe and people and language, i.e. Gentiles.
Because the church and the nation Israel are under different programs. God's protection of the church is His removal of them, while unbelieving Israel must fulfill that last seven years of that seventy sevens that were decreed upon them in Dan.9:24-27
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
The word "clouds" or any word for that manner, should not be restricted to one meaning, but should be determined by the context. As an example, we also have Jesus arriving on the clouds of heaven when He returns to the earth to end the age. So in both events we have clouds mentioned. I reiterate, since the wrath of God spans the entire seven years leading up to Christ's return to end the age and the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and is promised to be keep out of it, then the church, then the Lord's promise to gather His church must take place prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath.
Wherever the Lord returns to when He returns to end the age, the church be following behind on those white horses.
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
The above promise of the Lord coming to gather His church is described in detail by Paul in 1 Thes.4:13-18. In the scripture above, Jesus says that he is going to the Father's house to prepare places for us. Then He says that he will come back and take us to those places that he prepared for us in the Father's house. As the scripture states, the Lord will bring with him the Spirits of those who have died in him and the will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those still living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Once this takes place the entire church from beginning to end will meet the Lord in the air, where He will take the entire group back to the Father's house to those dwelling places.
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In Daniel 4, Nebuchanezzar testifies to having had his man's heart chamged to a beast's heart till seven times passed over him.
By this we see what God means by "the beast."
A man becomes a beast when he believes in himself rather than God.
In Daniel 4 we see that a beast can't reason and doesn't look up to God in heaven.
There are two geneologies of mankind. The generation of Jesus Christ, who are the saints of God, the sons of God. They bear the image of God.
There is the generation of Adam, they bear the image of the beast.
One generation is born of the Spirit. The other is born of the flesh.
The generation of the beast shall bear the mark of the beast.
The mark of the beast is the mark of its owner.
By this we see what God means by "the beast."
A man becomes a beast when he believes in himself rather than God.
In Daniel 4 we see that a beast can't reason and doesn't look up to God in heaven.
There are two geneologies of mankind. The generation of Jesus Christ, who are the saints of God, the sons of God. They bear the image of God.
There is the generation of Adam, they bear the image of the beast.
One generation is born of the Spirit. The other is born of the flesh.
The generation of the beast shall bear the mark of the beast.
The mark of the beast is the mark of its owner.