Very concerned about Hebrews 10:26 (New Member)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
1,041
113
London
Just adding my two cents (hope it helps you :) ):


"Hebrews 10" by Charles Stanley (1800s... ; not the one in Atlanta, GA, currently :D )

- https://bibletruthpublishers.com/hebrews-10/charles-stanley/pamphlets/c-stanley/la61566




[and]

[On "Epistle to the Hebrews" / "Hebrews"] "Perfection: Where Is It, and What Is it?" by Charles Stanley (1800s)

- https://bibletruthpublishers.com/pe...t/charles-stanley/pamphlets/c-stanley/la61576

[excerpt from first paragraph - "To help every anxious soul is my desire, and to hinder none." And further down - "This whole epistle to the Hebrews is on this subject. The going on from that which made nothing perfect, to that which forever perfects."]
I LOVE Charles Stanley, wonderful exponent of the word of God.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
1,041
113
London
Good afternoon. I grew up christian, but didn't go to church, didn't live much different. September last year I started going to church.(OPC)
I went for about 2.5-3 months, and started praying, and then the Holy Spirit came into my life. For the first 2 weeks, I was just IN LOVE with God.
I stopped swearing very quickly, the hate in my heart went away, my talk otherwise cleaned up. That went away, (being IN LOVE with God, I think Satan got involved) and I got very anxious and depressed. I cut out everything bad in my life that were obvious, visible sins. Stopped watching ungodly TV, radio, etc. Looked away from any woman when driving down the road. I still struggled, but overall I was really trying, which might have fed my pride, which I prayed about.
There were times of great peace, when I truly felt like everything made sense, Christ died for my sins,etc. I confessed my sins and the guilt started going away, though I don't know if I have saving faith. I was starting to walk in grace a bit, when I realized I made a mistake, I'd confess it. I tended to focus on the worst versus in the Bible, Parable of the Sower, Hebrews 10:26, etc. I also just started reading The Pilgrims Progress, and the man in the cage stood out to me. On Thursday (last week), I was on my phone, and got this conviction that I shouldn't be. I finished the email and repented, but everything felt HORRIBLE. Like the Holy Spirit had left me. I feel hard. For a few days, I felt extremely empty, but now I feel sort of normal. I've struggled I feel very convinced that I'm hell bound. I've talked to 3 pastors and another man I trust, and they think I'll be fine. They mostly think that 10:26 applies to apostacy, but the way it reads, I don't like it. What are your thoughts?. Thank you
Why not zero in instead upon Hebrews. 10. 12-14?
But when Christ had offered for ALL TIME a single sacrifice for sins He sat down at the right hand of God, then to wait until His enemies be made a stool for His feet. For by a single offering He has perfected FOR ALL TIME those who are sanctified.

The devil is trying to push you off Calvary ground. He is trying to get you to disbelieve that the cross is all you need, he is trying to force you into believing you must supplement the cross with good deeds and obedience to the commandments.

... just keep praising Jesus that He has shed His blood for you and that is enough ... you are saved.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
1,041
113
London
Good afternoon. I grew up christian, but didn't go to church, didn't live much different. September last year I started going to church.(OPC)
I went for about 2.5-3 months, and started praying, and then the Holy Spirit came into my life. For the first 2 weeks, I was just IN LOVE with God.
I stopped swearing very quickly, the hate in my heart went away, my talk otherwise cleaned up. That went away, (being IN LOVE with God, I think Satan got involved) and I got very anxious and depressed. I cut out everything bad in my life that were obvious, visible sins. Stopped watching ungodly TV, radio, etc. Looked away from any woman when driving down the road. I still struggled, but overall I was really trying, which might have fed my pride, which I prayed about.
There were times of great peace, when I truly felt like everything made sense, Christ died for my sins,etc. I confessed my sins and the guilt started going away, though I don't know if I have saving faith. I was starting to walk in grace a bit, when I realized I made a mistake, I'd confess it. I tended to focus on the worst versus in the Bible, Parable of the Sower, Hebrews 10:26, etc. I also just started reading The Pilgrims Progress, and the man in the cage stood out to me. On Thursday (last week), I was on my phone, and got this conviction that I shouldn't be. I finished the email and repented, but everything felt HORRIBLE. Like the Holy Spirit had left me. I feel hard. For a few days, I felt extremely empty, but now I feel sort of normal. I've struggled I feel very convinced that I'm hell bound. I've talked to 3 pastors and another man I trust, and they think I'll be fine. They mostly think that 10:26 applies to apostacy, but the way it reads, I don't like it. What are your thoughts?. Thank you
I've read Pilgrim's progress several times. You might read about Christian's encounter with Apollyon this is what you are experiencing.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
2,639
113
I wish you people would quit this corrupt teaching of once saved always saved!

We are save by grace through faith. Faith is what makes connection to God's grace. Faith is our part. Our salvation is dependent upon continuing from faith to faith, not just a one time faith.
That's cute! Rewriting the Bible! "Continuing from faith to faith, not just a one time faith" of course this phrase is found no where in the Bible. God does not give us faith and then walks away, while we beg him from more faith. He gives us the measure of faith, which we will need from the day we were justified, till the day Jesus returns at the second coming.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1.

We do not constantly replace our faith with new faith. Instead, we walk with Jesus, who renews and transforms us into the image of Christ.

"And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

Also, I not see a single Bible address in this post? You know, like John 3:16 or Matthew 6?

@OP
I do wish people who think you can lose your salvation would read the Bible better, and also, grow some respect for God!

If God saved us, it's because he knows we will endure to the end.

Thinking you can lose your salvation, is ludicrous! God is clear we are DEAD in our sins, before God saved us!

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." Eph. 3;1-2

"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph 2:4-5

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things have come." 2 Cor. 5:17

These passages, among others, show that we are dead in our sins. God then makes us new creatures in Christ, by saving us. Again, God is sovereign, he doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't save someone who turns away from God. They may have thought they were saved, maybe some artificial joy, but they walk away and forget God. That is not what a saved person does, listen to what the apostle John says in his epistles:

"They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us." 1 John 2:19.

No matter what it looks like, someone who turns and walks away from God was never saved in the first place.

Salvation or being justified is a gift of God. We are dead people who cannot make the choice to suddenly be alive. But God can save us, and give us grace to believe, when he makes us a new creature in Christ!

Who is stronger, you or God? I have to say God is many millions of times stronger than me. When he saved me, he had the power and strength to make me a new creation, and he has the strength to keep me from losing my new life in Christ and falling away from God. Yes, we do have to obey God, always. But if we sin, 1 John 1:9 tells us:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Confess your sins. Turn back to God. I once got very angry at God. When I first was crippled with Rheumatoid Disease, I begged God to heal me. I had some Word Faith friends, who also prayed for me. When I wasn't healed, they told me I didn't have enough faith to be healed. But Jesus says he gives us a measure of faith.

"For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned." Romans 12:3

It is really blaspheming God to say someone does not have enough faith. Jesus says we are assigned or given the measure of faith we need. So, I was so broken, hurt and abandoned I turned my back on God. I stopped praying, reading my Bible, and going to church. But, God told me to read 5 Psalms. So after 2 years, basically I turned around and "saw" God has been behind me, where he had always been. I read 5 Psalms a day, more or less, for 2 years. At the end of that time, I was suddenly put on better meds, and I could do things, and the pain wasn't killing me. I found a lovely little church, and God called me to seminary. I've never had such a dark night, again, despite med failures, struggles and pain.

No one can lose their salvation by sinning, but they can learn important lessons about confessing their sins, and being obedient to God.

God will never drop you like a rotten egg, and decide he made a mistake saving you.

"for [Jesus] has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5b.

And if God did make a mistake in saving you, you have found the wrong God. God does not make mistakes, ever.

Finally, the Bible says over and over we are saved by grace through faith. Repentance comes next. We are not saved if we didn't truly repent of our sins. But no where in the NT does it say we are saved by our works. Either doing good things, or not doing bad things. We are saved by God, who gave us his grace through faith.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:8-10

I hope you can come to terms with the fact that God chose us in him, before the foundation of the world.

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." Eph 1:4-6

So, like others have said, don't rely in your feelings. Rely on your Bible. Read it daily, in order. Start by reading 3 chapters of the OT and 1 of the NT. I also read a Psalm, a chapter in a Koine Greek, and part of a chapter in German, but you don't need to do that. With 3OT and 1NT chapters you should get through the entire Bible in a year. Pray before you read, and ask God to show you something. Don't stop after one reading! I'm past 50 times through the whole Bible, and it was easy. Anyone can do it!

PS, read a newer version of the Bible, but don't get into the paraphrased versions. NIV, HCSB, NET, are all good formal translations. Don't try to read in a language you are not fluent in, say like Shakespearean English in the KJV.
 

Simona1988

Active member
Mar 15, 2021
100
70
28
I had that same experience some 47 years ago as a brand new Christian sitting in a jail cell reading a bible and praying. It's not for public consumption, but it is something you never forget.
I pondered a lot before sharing this publicly and I kind of hoped that not a lot of people would read this. But I had to share it in order to encourage the opener of the thread and others to never lose their hope in God, always seek Him because it only takes two steps from your part, the rest comes from God.

I am so happy that you too felt the smell! I know about two other men in my town (I don't know them personally, we have a friend in common and that person told me about them). One of them, is a quiet young man who goes to church, fasts and was the target of mockery from the part of a woman because of his faith (this mockery lasted a long time). Another one is a recently converted to Christianity (he was into Buddhist philosophy before his conversion); once he converted, he gave away all his secular books and CDs and focused on his new faith in Christ. Both of them felt the smell in their houses during prayer.

When I felt it, I felt overwhelmed, I felt I needed to do something radical and quick. I was too impulsive. I jumped on it and didn't know how to deal with this experience.

The only thing God asks from us is that we want to know Him. To know Him is to love Him.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,366
113
That's cute! Rewriting the Bible! "Continuing from faith to faith, not just a one time faith" of course this phrase is found no where in the Bible.
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

You were you saying?

Salvation is dependent upon faith from beginning to end.

God does not give us faith and then walks away, while we beg him from more faith. He gives us the measure of faith, which we will need from the day we were justified, till the day Jesus returns at the second coming.
Well, God is the One who calls us. However, He is not going to force the person in. It is possible for a person to turn away from God and remain there.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1.
This above scripture is just telling us what faith is. It says nothing about once saved, always saved.

Example: Believers are hoping in the Lord's promise that he went back to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that He would be coming back to get us to takes us there. This would be 'things hoped for but not yet seen."

We do not constantly replace our faith with new faith. Instead, we walk with Jesus, who renews and transforms us into the image of Christ.
As believers continue going from faith to faith, they are being transformed into the image of Christ. Our faith is being strengthened as we go. What does all this have to do with a believer being able to lose their salvation if they turn from their faith and begin to willfully live according to the sinful nature.

"And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

@OP
I do wish people who think you can lose your salvation would read the Bible better, and also, grow some respect for God!
I wish that people who believe that they are saved no matter what would read the Bible better. There are way too many scriptures that support that faith is required for salvation. If what you guys believe was true, then the warnings in God's word would be pointless.

This teaching of OSAS comes from the powers of darkness. Once saved, always saved is true for those who continue in faith, period. If a believer goes back to willfully living according to the sinful nature, while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to condemnation. However, if they turn back and repent, then a multitude of sins will be covered over and they will not be condemned.

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins." - James 5:19-20

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful." - John 15:1

"I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned." - John 15:5-6

In the scripture above, the Lord as the Vine is directing this to believers as branches. Any branch that doesn't remain on the vine cannot bear fruit. And any branch that is not bearing fruit, is like a branch that is cut off and thrown away, just as the scripture above states.

"You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either." - Romans 11:19-21

Israel was broken off because of their unbelief and we Gentiles who were grafted in stand by faith. In the same way that Israel was broken off because of their unfaithfulness, neither will God spare us if we do not continue in faith.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
2,639
113
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

You were you saying?

Salvation is dependent upon faith from beginning to end.



Well, God is the One who calls us. However, He is not going to force the person in. It is possible for a person to turn away from God and remain there.



This above scripture is just telling us what faith is. It says nothing about once saved, always saved.

Example: Believers are hoping in the Lord's promise that he went back to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that He would be coming back to get us to takes us there. This would be 'things hoped for but not yet seen."



As believers continue going from faith to faith, they are being transformed into the image of Christ. Our faith is being strengthened as we go. What does all this have to do with a believer being able to lose their salvation if they turn from their faith and begin to willfully live according to the sinful nature.

"And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18



I wish that people who believe that they are saved no matter what would read the Bible better. There are way too many scriptures that support that faith is required for salvation. If what you guys believe was true, then the warnings in God's word would be pointless.

This teaching of OSAS comes from the powers of darkness. Once saved, always saved is true for those who continue in faith, period. If a believer goes back to willfully living according to the sinful nature, while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to condemnation. However, if they turn back and repent, then a multitude of sins will be covered over and they will not be condemned.

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins." - James 5:19-20

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful." - John 15:1

"I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned." - John 15:5-6

In the scripture above, the Lord as the Vine is directing this to believers as branches. Any branch that doesn't remain on the vine cannot bear fruit. And any branch that is not bearing fruit, is like a branch that is cut off and thrown away, just as the scripture above states.

"You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either." - Romans 11:19-21

Israel was broken off because of their unbelief and we Gentiles who were grafted in stand by faith. In the same way that Israel was broken off because of their unfaithfulness, neither will God spare us if we do not continue in faith.

First, no ADDRESS! That means book, chapter and verse! You never put it in. Second, you have continued to mix up your prepositions! When I did a search of "faith FOR faith" I got zero entries for every translation from KJV to NIV!

So, you throw out these mixed up verses, incorrectly quoted, with no way of identifying where they are from.

So, I will acknowledge your knowledge of the Bible is a bunch of verses you don't know where they came from (except the last passage, which I thank you for labeling) and that you are clueless about prepositions.

More accuracy is needed! You write things that are impossible to follow, because of silly mistakes. And that verse you quoted has nothing to do with losing your salvation. I am sure glad I don't have to worry about losing my salvation. I can trust in a holy and righteous God, who is sovereign over everything, especially salvation.

God gives us the gift of faith once! Then the Holy Spirit uses it in our lives. No one loses their salvation for making mistakes, and 1 John 2:19 clearly says that if people walk away from God they were never one of us! IOW, they were never saved. The Bible is clear you cannot lose your salvation!

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." John 10:27-29

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:29

"For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

"And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our as a guarantee." 2 Cor 1:22

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," Eph 2:8

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6

Phil 1:6 is the verse God have me one night, when I was worrying about "not being good enough" to be saved. I began to understand that salvation is totally of God, nothing I can do to merit it, or keep it. And back in those first years of being a Christian, God was showing me I was in a journey that the Holy Spirit was leading me on. That was 40 years ago, and God has never let go of me, once! Instead, I give all the glory to God for transforming me, and for becoming more like him, because God made it so, not because of any puny works or deeds made by me!

It is so depressing and sad that people think their efforts make them better people. Because, we will always fall short of that! We will never be good enough for God! That is the reason Christ did have to come to earth, and die in the cross. He was the perfect sacrifice for sin!

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:14.

Jesus has been sacrificed! Our job is to walk with God and "let" him change us. Passive imperative, as I will explain below.

As for 2 Cor. 3:18, that's been one of my key life verses for 10 years or more. I find it fascinating that μεταμορφούμεθα (metamorphoumetha) is in the passive imperative! This same verb in Romans 12:2 is also in passive imperative, or the divine passive. Do you understand the implications of that??!

It means we are commanded to allow God to transform us. That means:

"The use of the passive imperative μεταμορφοῦσθε [be transformed] is consonant with the truth that, while this transformation is not the Christians’ own doing but the work of the Holy Spirit, they nevertheless have a real responsibility in the matter—to let themselves be transformed, to respond to the leading and pressure of God’s Spirit… The transformation is not something which is brought about in an instant, it has to be continually repeated, or, rather, it is the process of sanctification, which has to go on all the time the Christian is in this life." We don't need new faith daily, we need to walk with God!

"Thus the passive imperative preserves in the grammar the most fundamental principle of God’s economy, that is, that God is the One who operates in us and yet we are responsible to open to His operation, to allow Him to operate, and to cooperate with His operation."

https://conversantfaith.com/2014/01/16/passive-imperatives-in-the-new-testament/amp/

It is not by our works, by constantly striving for faith, or even confessing our sins, that God changes us. Instead, he is in charge, from start to finish. Our job is to be open and "Let" God do it. Let God change us, let God renew and transform us. That is the passive imperative! And that work of God in our lives will never go bad. God never lets us go. He saved us, (justification) continues to save us, (sanctification) and will save us (glorification). God does the work, we do not! No human centred gospel!

I feel so bad for people who are driven by the fear of losing their salvation, if they are not, "good enough." That is an incredibly fearful way to live. We are not perfect, but God is working on us till the day when he returns and he glorifies us! What a Saviour!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
2,639
113
Hebrews 6:4 is a very controversial scripture. First off, this is in reference to complete apostates, i.e. those who believed and have completely turned away from Christ. That true believers are being spoken of is obvious from the following:

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit"

One does not share in the Holy Spirit unless one is a believer. This hypothetical condition is not referring to unbelievers.

In addition, this scripture IS NOT speaking about those in Christ who sin due to our weaknesses, but is speaking about complete apostates.

The impossibility of being restored to repentance, is not because God won't forgive them, but because they themselves have turned against Christ and remain there. For we have other scriptures that state that those who have fallen or wandered away, can receive forgiveness, such as the following:

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The state of apostacy and his inability to repent is on the part of the believer, not on God. Here is another example of those who hypothetically have turned away from Christ and their ability to return:

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

The believer in the hypothetical state above, if they should wander away (not having faith), while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to death. But if someone brings them back, then their sins are covered and they are saved from the results of their faithless state, which is death.

So to recap, I don't believe that the scripture is saying that if a person turns away from faith, that they can't repent and return to Christ because God won't forgive them. But rather that, it is because of the persons state of apostacy, i.e. their againstness of Christ, that it is impossible for them to return.

Do I believe that one can lose their salvation? Yes, I do. Otherwise all of the warnings in scripture would be unnecessary and empty. If a person turns from Christ and willfully goes back to living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, never turning back, then while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to condemnation. We are saved by grace through faith. If a believer turns from their faith and remains there, then they have unplugged from God's grace.

I agree with a lot of this, as well as your analysis of Hebrew 6. What I do not agree with, is that we can walk away from God, forever, if God has truly saved us. This is decisional regeneration, and like altar calls, it is not Biblical.

We are dead people before God saves us.

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." Eph 2:1-7

Then again, the writer of Eph 2 says:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph 2:8-10

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor. 5:17-21

Verse 17 is very clear that it is God who makes us alive! When we are saved, we are new creatures in Christ. God has changed us. Do we even have the ability to go back to our old selves, as you suggest apostates do? No, we do not!

But sometimes, it does appear someone has walked away from God, totally! I would cite the first epistle of John:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

John clearly states that if people walk away from God, then they were never truly saved by God. Someone who has been born from above, is born from God. God makes the choice to save us, then gives us the Holy Spirit to guide and lead us.

Sadly, anyone can pretend to be saved. They can go through the motions, but if God did not save them, and how easy to turn and walk away.

I'm not talking about people who turn their backs on God. I did that for 2 years, when I was told that God did not heal me of RA, because I didn't have enough faith! What a lie from the devil. Now, I didn't run off and sin or worship other gods. But I stopped going to church, which was easy since we had moved to another province and had not gotten involved in a church. I stopped reading my Bible and praying. But although I turned from God, he did not leave or forsake me. (Hebrews 13:5) I felt the Spirit urging me to read 5 Psalms a day. It took a while, but I finally started doing it. I did it for 2 years. I found God's people who suffered, railed at God, but mostly turned back to him. Except a few imprecatory like Psalms 88.

God showed me we are not perfect, when we come to know him. But also, God doesn't make mistakes, and he certainly doesn't pick the wrong people to save. He doesn't have to say, "Wow, that person walked away. I was so sure they were going to persevere to the end!" NO!!

God is sovereign. He picks us, then he walks with us, and uses all things for good.

"And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose," Romans 8:28

So, I do agree that Hebrews 6 is talking about extreme apostates, but they were extreme, because God never saved them in the first place, and they were walking on their own, mimicking those around them, not led by God.

So, a small disagreement in the foundation of soteriology! But I do agree people sin, and the have to repent and confess their sins to God.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

But I believe God is sovereign and in control. He doesn't make mistakes like saving people who are going to walk away from him. It makes no sense at all. God loves his people, and he gave his one and only Son to die for our sins, so we might believe and be saved. God also gives us the spark of the Holy Spirit, who makes us new creatures in Christ. Humans just don't have the power to save themselves, not even with some help from the Holy Spirit. It is ALL the Holy Spirit saving us- monergistic! But sanctification is synergistic, and that is our walk with God for it the rest of our life, learning and being transformed by the power of God!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
2,639
113
I don't know if I mentioned this earlier in this thread, it does date back a few months.

But if I did, it bears repeating.

There is a type of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) that is attached to this form of mental illness called scrupulousity. It means that someone becomes obsessed with earning their salvation. Catholics get this a lot, because their service is so ritualized. But I have met a number of Protestants who have this.

Basically, these people feel like they are not God enough for God to save them. I call it "God is not bigger than your sins syndrome." Because God really can save you, no matter what your sins. He even gives us the power to turn from our sins, because some things we just can't conquer on our own.

So, by feeling you are going to lose your salvation by sinning, you basically feel that your perversity to sin, is greater than Jesus' death in the cross, who took away our sins with his blood on the cross.

So if you suffer from this unreasonable fear of losing your salvation, think about what you are implying. You are prideful, thinking that your sin is greater than the power of the risen Saviour and Lord.

Like I said, this can be a manifestation of some sort of mental illness. Talk to your pastor, or a Christian psychologist and get help understanding who you are in Christ. Or, get on your knees, and pray for God to show you his love and forgiveness, and not once, but hundreds or thousands of times. And repent of those things that make you sin.

I always had a temper. It ran in my family, whether biological or psychological or just learned, I don't know. I didn't even know a bad temper was a sin!

My second year of being a Christian, in 1981, I read Gal 5:19-21

"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Notice in verse 20, it says "fits of rage." Other versions say, "outbursts of anger," "hatred and strife," "fits of anger" and so forth. I decided to get rid of my anger, and prayed God would help me. I remember how hard it was to realize after I had done it, at first. Then it was hard to stop while losing my temper. Finally, about 20 years later, I was able to realize I was losing my temper before I did, but I still could not stop the temper. I was praying daily about this! Then, it took about 15 more years, and I realized I wasn't angry anymore. Except one trip in the car, my husband was baiting me, poking me and trying to get me to lose my temper. He did this for 2 days, all the way to Vancouver and home, yrapped in the car. The final day, it was late and I was tired, and he poked me one more time. I lost it! I thought my temper was gone, but after 2 years of it being gone, there it was. God showed me I needed to give it to him, and 3 years later, I am good! That sin is not part of my personal life! And God showed me how my husband did bait me, and my husband and I had a long talk about it, and he never did it again!

So, even if it takes decades, don't give up, the Holy Spirit is going to help you, no matter what the sin! Trust God, he is there to help you.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,366
113
I agree with a lot of this, as well as your analysis of Hebrew 6. What I do not agree with, is that we can walk away from God, forever, if God has truly saved us. This is decisional regeneration, and like altar calls, it is not Biblical.

We are dead people before God saves us.
Hello Angela,

Yes, that is correct, we are dead in sin before God saves us. However, our salvation is dependent upon faith from beginning to end. That's our part. Though God foreknew us and predestined us for eternal life, He is not going to force those whom He chose into His kingdom by force. Contrary to those who believe in OSAS, there are many scriptures that demonstrate that a believer can lose their salvation such as the following:

Paul's letter to the Romans
Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, remember this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.

In the scripture above, Paul is using the unbelieving Jews of Israel as an example of branches that were broken off because of not having faith. Then he says to the Gentiles in Rome, that they stand by faith. Then he says that If they then turn from thier stand in faith that just like the original branches that were broken off because of their lack of faith, that God would not spare them either. How could Paul say this if OSAS were true? I can already sense everyone getting their false apologetics ready. The plain fact is that, if OSAS were true, then what Paul said above would be false. Here's another one:

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. 51Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 24:48-51

In the parable above he is referred to as a servant and calls the Lord his master, i.e. he's a believer. The reference to beating his fellow servants and eating and drinking with drunkards represents going back and willfully living according to the sinful nature. Regarding this, the Lord says that He will come on a day when that servant is not prepared and if He finds him in that state He will assign that servant a place with the hypocrites where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. What happened to OSAS here?

There are many more examples, but these should support what I am saying.

The bottom line on this is that, believers can trust in the promise of the Lord for salvation and eternal life, [if] they continue in faith until the end of their lives or until the Lord comes for His church.

"Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—[if] indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

"We have come to share in Christ, [if] indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. - Hebrews 3:14

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

I would also direct you to the letters to the seven churches in Revelation in regards to the need to overcome those rebukes that are listed. The following is an excerpt from the letter to Sardis:

"But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with Me in white, because they are worthy. The one overcoming thus will be clothed in white garments. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

If you reverse the above, those who do not overcome, i.e. remain willfully living in the sinful nature, they will not be clothed in white garments and their names can be blotted out of the book of life and the Lord will not confess that persons name before His Father and His angels. It's not an empty warning!

I hope that you will truly take into consideration all that I have provided here.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,559
1,162
113
Good afternoon. I grew up christian, but didn't go to church, didn't live much different. September last year I started going to church.(OPC)
I went for about 2.5-3 months, and started praying, and then the Holy Spirit came into my life. For the first 2 weeks, I was just IN LOVE with God.
I stopped swearing very quickly, the hate in my heart went away, my talk otherwise cleaned up. That went away, (being IN LOVE with God, I think Satan got involved) and I got very anxious and depressed. I cut out everything bad in my life that were obvious, visible sins. Stopped watching ungodly TV, radio, etc. Looked away from any woman when driving down the road. I still struggled, but overall I was really trying, which might have fed my pride, which I prayed about.
There were times of great peace, when I truly felt like everything made sense, Christ died for my sins,etc. I confessed my sins and the guilt started going away, though I don't know if I have saving faith. I was starting to walk in grace a bit, when I realized I made a mistake, I'd confess it. I tended to focus on the worst versus in the Bible, Parable of the Sower, Hebrews 10:26, etc. I also just started reading The Pilgrims Progress, and the man in the cage stood out to me. On Thursday (last week), I was on my phone, and got this conviction that I shouldn't be. I finished the email and repented, but everything felt HORRIBLE. Like the Holy Spirit had left me. I feel hard. For a few days, I felt extremely empty, but now I feel sort of normal. I've struggled I feel very convinced that I'm hell bound. I've talked to 3 pastors and another man I trust, and they think I'll be fine. They mostly think that 10:26 applies to apostacy, but the way it reads, I don't like it. What are your thoughts?. Thank you
it’s only when we understand how lost we are , that we really become open to a lord and savior .

This will sound simple bro but you need to learn the things Jesus taught on earth like how he taught us to acknowledge our sins and not pretend they aren’t there

“Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other:

for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:10-

What Jesus requires is truth in the inner parts letting that conviction teach you about repentance and salvation rather than sin and condemnation

condemnation means your lost because you are unworthy and have sinned , salvation means you met Jesus and believe . In this those sins that kept you condemned are not recognized by the principle of grace , to the benefit that now you can come close to him and hear the gospel and live

“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬

we’re all headed for “ hell” brother that’s why Jesus came to save us from it . Being forgiven matters because it allows us to come near to Christ and be healed . If we will believe the gospel

we need to believe what Jesus taught us to believe because he said it will save our souls keep believing brother you aren’t lost u are being warned to look toward repentance found in him keep believing but we have to hear the word to believe it into salvstion . After speaking of willful sin and judgement the writer gives encouragement me a path forward in hope

“For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus will teach you in the gospel that you are able to escape by trusting in him but his word and believing is the key we were all hell bound by sin but now is the day of salvstion

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel will turn your belief right so you can see forgiveness and new life outside the prison
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,719
10,652
113
it is not something 'wrong' that we don't live our lives in these tents on a perpetual spiritual high.

God gives us moments of peace and clear, overwhelming love from Him, and we are meant to remember these things and trust Him even when we don't 'feel' the same elation. it's why what we have is called 'faith' - and we must endure in it

:)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,366
113
Good afternoon. I grew up christian, but didn't go to church, didn't live much different. September last year I started going to church.(OPC)
I went for about 2.5-3 months, and started praying, and then the Holy Spirit came into my life. For the first 2 weeks, I was just IN LOVE with God.
I stopped swearing very quickly, the hate in my heart went away, my talk otherwise cleaned up. That went away, (being IN LOVE with God, I think Satan got involved) and I got very anxious and depressed. I cut out everything bad in my life that were obvious, visible sins. Stopped watching ungodly TV, radio, etc. Looked away from any woman when driving down the road. I still struggled, but overall I was really trying, which might have fed my pride, which I prayed about.
There were times of great peace, when I truly felt like everything made sense, Christ died for my sins,etc. I confessed my sins and the guilt started going away, though I don't know if I have saving faith. I was starting to walk in grace a bit, when I realized I made a mistake, I'd confess it. I tended to focus on the worst versus in the Bible, Parable of the Sower, Hebrews 10:26, etc. I also just started reading The Pilgrims Progress, and the man in the cage stood out to me. On Thursday (last week), I was on my phone, and got this conviction that I shouldn't be. I finished the email and repented, but everything felt HORRIBLE. Like the Holy Spirit had left me. I feel hard. For a few days, I felt extremely empty, but now I feel sort of normal. I've struggled I feel very convinced that I'm hell bound. I've talked to 3 pastors and another man I trust, and they think I'll be fine. They mostly think that 10:26 applies to apostacy, but the way it reads, I don't like it. What are your thoughts?. Thank you
Are we saved by how we feel or by what we read and believed?

If we are going to base our salvation on how we feel at any given time, we would always be living a rollercoaster ride. Remember, Satan and the powers of darkness, as well as the world, can influence our feelings. That does not mean that the Holy Spirit has left us. You have to override those feelings and rest in the word of God. If you had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't be concerned about it, because it would be willful on your part. And as I said in my previous post, you would have to believe and claim that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan and thereby calling the Holy Spirit and unclean. That was the blasphemy of the Spirit that the Pharisees had committed.

Stand strong in the word of God and His promise of forgiveness and eternal life. For if we base our salvation on how we feel, we would not last very long.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,360
5,020
113
Good afternoon. I grew up christian, but didn't go to church, didn't live much different. September last year I started going to church.(OPC)
I went for about 2.5-3 months, and started praying, and then the Holy Spirit came into my life. For the first 2 weeks, I was just IN LOVE with God.
I stopped swearing very quickly, the hate in my heart went away, my talk otherwise cleaned up. That went away, (being IN LOVE with God, I think Satan got involved) and I got very anxious and depressed. I cut out everything bad in my life that were obvious, visible sins. Stopped watching ungodly TV, radio, etc. Looked away from any woman when driving down the road. I still struggled, but overall I was really trying, which might have fed my pride, which I prayed about.
There were times of great peace, when I truly felt like everything made sense, Christ died for my sins,etc. I confessed my sins and the guilt started going away, though I don't know if I have saving faith. I was starting to walk in grace a bit, when I realized I made a mistake, I'd confess it. I tended to focus on the worst versus in the Bible, Parable of the Sower, Hebrews 10:26, etc. I also just started reading The Pilgrims Progress, and the man in the cage stood out to me. On Thursday (last week), I was on my phone, and got this conviction that I shouldn't be. I finished the email and repented, but everything felt HORRIBLE. Like the Holy Spirit had left me. I feel hard. For a few days, I felt extremely empty, but now I feel sort of normal. I've struggled I feel very convinced that I'm hell bound. I've talked to 3 pastors and another man I trust, and they think I'll be fine. They mostly think that 10:26 applies to apostacy, but the way it reads, I don't like it. What are your thoughts?. Thank you
A couple of things to remember regarding the book of Hebrews: It is in fact literally written to Hebrews. That is the key before you can understand the book.

The long and short of it is that this verse is speaking to Hebrews warning them against falling back into obsolete and useless Mosaic Judaism. There is nothing here for Christians to worry about, because gentile Christians could not possibly fall into this particular transgression. It really is a an extremely narrow passage in that regard.

Check out John MacArthur's online audio commentary on Hebrews. It really is quite superb. John lays it out in a beautiful and easily digestible's fashion. I don't agree with everything John says but he did a great job on Hebrews....(y)

I have seen many many reputable respectable Christian commentators totally blow the book of Hebrews. And interestingly people think it's very difficult when in fact it is not.

You have to remember that there is in Hebrews 3 groups: "us", "you" and "them". Once you figure out who's these three parties are you'll be all set and will understand the book.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,228
5,158
113
We must credit our forefathers. By this, It seems important to point out the word Hebrew has a clearer translation to English, and that would be "from across the river."

We shall all cross Jordan one day into the Promised land, that being the Kingdom, ergo w e are all Hebrews who truly believe.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,360
5,020
113
Hebrews 6:4 is a very controversial scripture. First off, this is in reference to complete apostates, i.e. those who believed and have completely turned away from Christ. That true believers are being spoken of is obvious from the following:

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit"

One does not share in the Holy Spirit unless one is a believer. This hypothetical condition is not referring to unbelievers.

In addition, this scripture IS NOT speaking about those in Christ who sin due to our weaknesses, but is speaking about complete apostates.

The impossibility of being restored to repentance, is not because God won't forgive them, but because they themselves have turned against Christ and remain there. For we have other scriptures that state that those who have fallen or wandered away, can receive forgiveness, such as the following:

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The state of apostacy and his inability to repent is on the part of the believer, not on God. Here is another example of those who hypothetically have turned away from Christ and their ability to return:

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

The believer in the hypothetical state above, if they should wander away (not having faith), while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to death. But if someone brings them back, then their sins are covered and they are saved from the results of their faithless state, which is death.

So to recap, I don't believe that the scripture is saying that if a person turns away from faith, that they can't repent and return to Christ because God won't forgive them. But rather that, it is because of the persons state of apostacy, i.e. their againstness of Christ, that it is impossible for them to return.

Do I believe that one can lose their salvation? Yes, I do. Otherwise all of the warnings in scripture would be unnecessary and empty. If a person turns from Christ and willfully goes back to living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, never turning back, then while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to condemnation. We are saved by grace through faith. If a believer turns from their faith and remains there, then they have unplugged from God's grace.
Hebrews 6 is an excellent example which shows the three groups in just a few passages:

Heb 6:4 "those", Heb 6:6 "they"

Heb 6:9 "we", "you"

Heb 6:11 "we", "you"

"We">>>>>these are the saved Christians converted from mosaic Judaism.
"you" >>>>these are the saved Christians being warned not to fall back into Mosaic Judaism.
"they" >>>These are the individuals who were introduced to Christianity but did in fact fall back into Mosaic Judaism. Of course falling back means they were never saved to begin with.

Basically what you got is WE telling YOU not to become THEY.......;)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,360
5,020
113
Hebrews 6 is an excellent example which shows the three groups in just a few passages:

Heb 6:4 "those", Heb 6:6 "they"

Heb 6:9 "we", "you"

Heb 6:11 "we", "you"

"We">>>>>these are the saved Christians converted from mosaic Judaism.
"you" >>>>these are the saved Christians being warned not to fall back into Mosaic Judaism.
"they" >>>These are the individuals who were introduced to Christianity but did in fact fall back into Mosaic Judaism. Of course falling back means they were never saved to begin with.

Basically what you got is WE telling YOU not to become THEY.......;)
6:10 "your", "ye"
6:11 "you"
6:12 "ye"

All of the YOUs and YEs are not condemned but are being exhorted to hold fast to their faith.

The THEM and THEY are lost. Evidently never to return.

And remember all of these three groups are ethnic Hebrews.
 
Jun 9, 2021
1,893
424
83
I was looking up a personal email. Not anything inappropriate, but wasting company time. I'm afraid that He was calling me to repentance in that moment, and I failed. I have since failed in fighting sin, which scares me all the more.


I won't get into the specifics of how mean, evil, degrading, adulterous, alcoholic, stoned I once used to be including the ruthless people I once ran with. I won't get into the crimes committed, the times I challenged God, told Him where to go and how to shove it. I also won't get into the legalities and sentencing's I faced because of who I once was. But I am going to share something that I finally figured out and you will to if you keep trying.


I was brought to Christ at a very young age, and by the time I was in High School, I found myself in so much trouble a judge gave me 2 options (jail or military). For many years I lived like the devil's best friend. But the weird thing is, when I look back at those times, whether I was drunk stupid or stoned retarded. I remember, right before falling asleep, a mental reminder to ask God for forgiveness before I passed out and woke to a new morning. And I would get up the next day and do the same sins again and before passing out get a reminder to ask God for forgiveness.

It took me awhile to understand the concept here but when it did the light bulb shone very bright.

Even though I was living in sin, the same Holy Spirit that filled me when I accepted Christ was the same Holy spirit every night speaking to my mind to ask for forgiveness.

God never left me even though I was doing my best to leave Him.

God's Holy Word is true. He never left me. He not only rode out the bad times but kept reminding me to ask Him for forgiveness because my sins were great. And eventually, He changed my lifestyle. I don't even know how to begin explaining how assuring that is to me.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,366
113
Hebrews 6 is an excellent example which shows the three groups in just a few passages:

Heb 6:4 "those", Heb 6:6 "they"

Heb 6:9 "we", "you"

Heb 6:11 "we", "you"

"We">>>>>these are the saved Christians converted from mosaic Judaism.
"you" >>>>these are the saved Christians being warned not to fall back into Mosaic Judaism.
"they" >>>These are the individuals who were introduced to Christianity but did in fact fall back into Mosaic Judaism. Of course falling back means they were never saved to begin with.

Basically what you got is WE telling YOU not to become THEY.......;)
Hey CV5,

I saw the post. However, I was not and am not in agreement with it. We have one Lord, one faith and the same word. In order to fall away from something, you would have to belong to it in the first place, i.e. you can't fall away from something that you didn't belong to in the first place. Hebrews 6:4-6 would can be applied to Gentile believers as well regarding falling away (apostatizing) from faith in Christ.

That said, I believe that Hebrews can be applied to all believers and not just Hebrews.

So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.