Was Erasmus one of the greatest scholars of his day?

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Evmur

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#41
Salvation is about believing…believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one person is pre-programmed to believe the gospel. That in itself would nullify the meaning of the word believe. Abraham being our example of believing God at his word. If we believe…if.

Romans 4:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Did you choose to be born? did God come and ask you what colour hair or eyes you would have? how tall? whether you would be rich or poor? male or female?

Do you find that offensive that God would Lord it over you in such a "tyrannical" fashion? Then why on earth are you offended if God should choose to confer eternal life, the new birth as a free gift?

No no no you say "I must have a freewill choice" after all God is a democrat..
Jesus said
the wind blows whither He listeth and ye hear the sound thereof so is everyone who is born from above
not by the will of man
or by the will of the flesh
but by the will of God.

... why then do you say it was your will?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
25,386
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#43
Jesus said the wind blows whither He listeth and ye hear the sound thereof so is everyone who is born from above" not by the will of man, or by the will of the flesh, but by the will of God.
You have MISAPPLIED this passage to try and support your false belief and your false Calvinistic Gospel. Even after I showed you step-by-step that YOUR WILL was involved in your salvation (which was true in the Bible and is true for all who are saved). And if that is not how you got saved then you are simply deceiving yourself.

So AFTER a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it then that the Holy Spirit SUPERNATURALLY regenerates that person. and that is where those words of Christ apply (speaking of the New Birth).

The honest thing to do now is to acknowledge that TULIP is not the true Gospel, and that you are rejecting it based upon the words of Christ Himself. If a Christian cannot honestly reject false doctrine, then there is a problem.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#44
I was talking about before you were saved, not implying that you are not saved.

Why do the apostles never speak like this? "we accepted Jesus as our Saviour ... we made a decision ... we chose Him to be our Saviour"

"Thanks be unto God the Father and Jesus Christ whom we have chosen of our own freewill"

Nobody speaks like that in the bible. It's all He of His great mercy chose us, by His own will He saved us WHILE we were yet His enemies He saved us. In fact there is no such thing as human freewill in the NT.

You believed the gospel because God imparted faith to you and He is irresistible. But you now want to steal a little glory for yourself so you now say "no no it was all my decision" I am in control, I am the sovereign one.
“You believed the gospel because God imparted faith to you and He is irresistible. But you now want to steal a little glory for yourself so you now say "no no it was all my decision" I am in control, I am the sovereign one”

You have some really bizarre ways to avoid accepting what Jesus said about these things . Again whatever judgements you’ve made about me is irrelevant to me. I have a judge like you do

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;

that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I hope God forces you to do good so he will reward you for what he forced you to do .

And I hope god doesn’t force you to serve evil , so he doesn’t punish you for what he caused and forces you to do .

I’m gonna accept the things he said will save me and follow those things that’s my plan. I would wuote again this for you but you don’t have any choice I suppose to hear it

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

a what if there’s someone in the dungeon trying to convince the prisoners they can’t walk out the open door thier chains can’t be broken they are trapped forever in slavery

they aren’t hearing the truth they are still stuck in the trap
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#46
It is God's will to believe on Christ. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.. Acts 16:31
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#47
Did you choose to be born? did God come and ask you what colour hair or eyes you would have? how tall? whether you would be rich or poor? male or female?

Do you find that offensive that God would Lord it over you in such a "tyrannical" fashion? Then why on earth are you offended if God should choose to confer eternal life, the new birth as a free gift?

No no no you say "I must have a freewill choice" after all God is a democrat..
Jesus said
the wind blows whither He listeth and ye hear the sound thereof so is everyone who is born from above
not by the will of man
or by the will of the flesh
but by the will of God.

... why then do you say it was your will?
My mother and father chose to have me. My traits are there traits. I'm tall because father and grandfather, etc. are tall. God didn't lord it over me. God determined the way of salvation through his Son. I couldn't will it or run it any other way. I must believe the gospel if I want salvation.
 

Evmur

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#48
My mother and father chose to have me. My traits are there traits. I'm tall because father and grandfather, etc. are tall. God didn't lord it over me. God determined the way of salvation through his Son. I couldn't will it or run it any other way. I must believe the gospel if I want salvation.
yes God determined it all ... so give Him all the glory and don't try to pretend that you did it by your own freewill.
 

Evmur

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#50
God chooses us for what purpose? Verse, please. Thanks
Chosen before the world begun that we might be a people for the praise of His glorious grace ...

not to be a people boasting it was our decidings, our choosings, our own freewill.
 

Evmur

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#51
“You believed the gospel because God imparted faith to you and He is irresistible. But you now want to steal a little glory for yourself so you now say "no no it was all my decision" I am in control, I am the sovereign one”

You have some really bizarre ways to avoid accepting what Jesus said about these things . Again whatever judgements you’ve made about me is irrelevant to me. I have a judge like you do

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;

that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I hope God forces you to do good so he will reward you for what he forced you to do .

And I hope god doesn’t force you to serve evil , so he doesn’t punish you for what he caused and forces you to do .

I’m gonna accept the things he said will save me and follow those things that’s my plan. I would wuote again this for you but you don’t have any choice I suppose to hear it

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

a what if there’s someone in the dungeon trying to convince the prisoners they can’t walk out the open door thier chains can’t be broken they are trapped forever in slavery

they aren’t hearing the truth they are still stuck in the trap
You keep preaching "we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ" how is your freewill involved in that?

God GAVE them repentance ... you say they chose it of their own freewill

If you acknowledge it was God's free gift of grace to you it will make you gentle to everyone "oh that they may receive the mercy as you have" that will be your mind.

You won't be crowing about how you chose to be saved and flaunting it to sinners and saying "you chose your bed now lie in"

Which is how christians treat outsiders. See? it's a different mindset.
 

Evmur

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#52
You have MISAPPLIED this passage to try and support your false belief and your false Calvinistic Gospel. Even after I showed you step-by-step that YOUR WILL was involved in your salvation (which was true in the Bible and is true for all who are saved). And if that is not how you got saved then you are simply deceiving yourself.

So AFTER a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it then that the Holy Spirit SUPERNATURALLY regenerates that person. and that is where those words of Christ apply (speaking of the New Birth).

The honest thing to do now is to acknowledge that TULIP is not the true Gospel, and that you are rejecting it based upon the words of Christ Himself. If a Christian cannot honestly reject false doctrine, then there is a problem.
that is horse before the cartism

And if you need to know what Calvin believed read Calvin.

Regeneration comes first, then we believe and so receive Christ "while we were dead in our trespasses and sins He made us alive together with Christ by grace we have been saved.

YOU HAD TO SURRENDER Nehemiah. You had to GIVE UP your own will which was not free but bound to sin. God conquered you with His love, God subdued your will to His own.

Aren't you glad God has defeated your will which was leading you away from God? there are no TULIPS in the gospel only crocuses.
 

Evmur

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#53

:)
Depravity vs. Grace
God says it like it is. :)

The thing is with our wonderful gracious Lord is He does these thing so gently, we do not perceive it is His Spirit working these things.

We are not puppets. We have God IN US causing us to both will and to do of His good pleasure.

When He was on the shore and the disciples had fished all night and caught nothing He said "lower your nets for a catch" and they had a massive catch of fish of every size.

Then He says "come bring the fish which YOU have caught"

God is so kind, He is just like that.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#55
And if you need to know what Calvin believed read Calvin.
Why read about a Roman Catholic priest who murdered people and believed in baby sprinkling and the taking Lord’s supper sealed the believer’s destiny. I’d rather study God’s word.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#56
You keep preaching "we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ" how is your freewill involved in that?

God GAVE them repentance ... you say they chose it of their own freewill

If you acknowledge it was God's free gift of grace to you it will make you gentle to everyone "oh that they may receive the mercy as you have" that will be your mind.

You won't be crowing about how you chose to be saved and flaunting it to sinners and saying "you chose your bed now lie in"

Which is how christians treat outsiders. See? it's a different mindset.
““Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.


But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I’m sorry you think there’s no option Gods offering it if you would listen to his word

If that’s too complex look at james summary

“Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

to be clear regarding judgement if we don’t have a choice then this is not just

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live,


and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God doesn’t force them to do evil and then blame them for it and then punish them for it . He’s holding them accountable for what they did

thats the point , God has been clear from the start oit good and evil and the consequences of both He’s also made clear this

“Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.

For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Doesn’t matter if it was then or now

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

you don’t understand why I quoted that lol ? God didn’t make anyone do evil and then blame and punish them as if it’s all thier fault . Your theory creates a sadistic diety who randomly cussed evil then made many serve evil then he blames them for it then he punished them with horrible fire as if it was thier fault for doing the evil …..that’s simply not the God of the Bible our zgod tells people the truth and the results of both good and evil and the results then he says choose like this


“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

just like Adam he places him in Eden with the tree of life , and the tree of death and earned him not to choose death .

thats how God is and why all it requires of man is to hear what he’s saying and believe him like this for instance

“I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

arhat can save a believer , but it doesn’t help the one who rejects it as not true or relevant . It’s the savior telling believers how to not perish we can either reject it being proud , or accept it being believers of him

but I think you are just upset or something honestly I’m here to talk about what the Bible says not argue about whether a man can choose to do good or evil that’s elementary
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#57
And yet, all men are not saved.
Because they have to hear and obey him he doesn’t make them as emvur apparently thinks he makes us able to do what we need to do
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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#58
Because they have to hear and obey him he doesn’t make them as emvur apparently thinks he makes us able to do what we need to do
Folks can squeal all they like but there will be no chaff in God's barn, no tares in His kingdom, no wolves, no goats, no vipers

There will be wheat, there will be doves and there will be sheeps

YOU don't know who is who or which is which. I'm sure you are very wise but it is not generally given to us to be able to tell on sight what is in the heart of every man. We see only the outer man.

But guess what?

God does know, He has not left it up to men to decide.

Some fella may run forward at the meeting and go through the formula of praying the prayer and undergoing the counselling and tra la you declare him saved, he made the decision, of his own freewill he "accepted Christ"

But he's not saved, no work of grace has taken place in his heart. The Holy Spirit has not been active, he is not born again.

See it's not up to you to decide, to choose. It's not given to man [in general] to recognise among a crowd who is wheat and who is tare.

God does know.

The way God sorts everyone out one from another is by the preaching of the gospel, He already knows who are His and who He will regenerate.

When the preacher PRE-EMPTS the Holy Spirit by calling for the audience to make a decision [of his "own freewill"] he interrupts the all essential work of the Holy Ghost in the heart. You get sham conversions.

And I'm not saying nobody get saved. Many do but you also get many shams and among those that do get saved they start off the christian walk with problems, often times they will backslide and God will do a deeper work in their hearts to bring them back.

He would have done this work at the beginning but He got interrupted by the call for decisions.