Was King David a rapist?

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OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#1
First, a Disclaimer: I am not picking on my brother David, whom I love and shall see someday. We all sin and need to repent whole-heartily as he did in Psalms. I do not judge him. Simply some of his sins are written in the bible- which make them open for discussion...

We all know and agree that David committed murder, and we all know why- to be with Bathsheba and to cover up his pregnancy with her. But some say he raped Bathsheba. I disagree, and here's why...

There are different kinds of rape...
1 By force against the other's will (non-consensual).
2 Statutory rape (even if it is consensual between both the adult and the minor).
3 And there is power rape- someone misuses their authority over you to psychologically pressure you into verbally agreeing to it when you would not have agreed had there not been that pressure and misuse of authority. And this is the kind in question.


The bible answers itself in other areas of it, so let's look to the bible for this answer. God is wise, and He shared that ability with Solomon (who happens to be David's son). When a case was brought before him of the two mothers claiming both their babies were born around the same time, one had died, and both claim the live one is theirs, He was wise enough to offer to cut the child in half and give half to each mother- which revealed the real mother who pleaded for the child's life. When you are a mother, your intention is to protect your child.

God has an ability that we do not have. He can always see the intentions, thoughts, and motivations of each heart. I understand that a child, even at the age of 16, cannot truly decide such things for themselves. That's why they can't walk into a bar and get drunk, or get married in some cases, or make legal decisions about surgeries or medicines. But we are talking adults here, therefore we must look at the intention.

In Deuteronomy 22 the bible speaks of a woman being raped in town or out in the field. In town people should hear her scream, in the field they cannot hear her scream. So if she is raped in town, and screamed not, she also is found guilty. By not screaming and calling for help, her intention was proven that she consensually shared in the sin.

So let's look at the evidences of Bathsheba's intentions. She was bathing naked on the roof. That tells me that she is not modest for one, and that she knew she would be seen by David- that's flaunting and flirting. Her goal was obviously to leave a poor man and be united to a rich man with power and titles- which would affect her status as well. There is no mention of her crying for her dead husband, or being united to David against her will.

Some say that since guards brought her to him, that that proves she was brought against her will. I disagree. It could have been for secrecy and protection. Besides, does a king go fetch his own bread? No, his servants bring him all his needs and requests.

I personally do not believe Bathsheba was raped by any definition of the word. I am speaking as someone who has been kidnapped at 16, and raped repeatedly for years while held captive in a dark basement- in which I produced a son. I know rape. Bathsheba was not raped.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#3
I think she was raped. The reason why she was bathing on the roof is because Israel is hot. People spend a lot of time on their roofs. She was minding her own business.

David was not where he was supposed to be. He was supposed to be at the forefront of the war. Instead, he was being a perv looking at a woman in the privacy of her own rooftop. People in Israel slept on the roofs, and probably had sex on their roofs- it is not immodest, just a cultural tradition.
He had the men bring her to him. She didn’t know David was spying on her. He basically used his power to make her his wife.

Read what Nathan tells him- David took Bathsheba just like the man in the story took the poor man’s ewe lamb.

Just because it is not recorded, it does not mean Bathsheba did not cry. God was good to Bathsheba, He gave her Solomon. It is Bathsheba who tells her precious Lemuel about the Proverbs 31 woman. I believe Bathsheba was that woman to Uriah.

It was not Bathsheba’s fault at all. She could say #metoo.

David reaped what he sowed. He raped Bathsheba, and his son raped his daughter.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#4
oh my lands la vie! I thought your other avatar was a tad scary. :eek:
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#5
I would have to look up the bathing customs of the time

I don't know that Bathsheba was not modest. she was married and I doubt she was ...errr....advertising

anyway...who refuses the king?
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#6
opinions are all over the place it seems with one exception. David should not have been there and he was apparently overlooking where she was bathing but it seems that women bathing outside were usually not completely naked

I think the biblical account is pretty plain as to where the blame rested
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,316
13,706
113
#7
Western popular culture and particularly the feminism/social justice warrior crowd have debased the term "rape" so that it is now used for anything from looking at a woman who doesn't want you to, to any form of physical contact, to consensual sex that is regretted later. However, because of the power differential involved in David's case, it probably would be considered rape today anyway.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#8
However, because of the power differential involved in David's case, it probably would be considered rape today anyway.
Why should today's concepts be applied to that time when the MeToo Movement is total hypocrisy? Many of the MeToo women went into those situations with their eyes open and their cleavages exposed.

Bathsheba had no business bathing in the nude when her rooftop could easily be viewed. Surely she would have known this simply by looking around. Bathsheba could have also refused to go along had she chosen to do so, and David would have been ashamed of his stupidity.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#10
Why should today's concepts be applied to that time when the MeToo Movement is total hypocrisy? Many of the MeToo women went into those situations with their eyes open and their cleavages exposed.

Bathsheba had no business bathing in the nude when her rooftop could easily be viewed. Surely she would have known this simply by looking around. Bathsheba could have also refused to go along had she chosen to do so, and David would have been ashamed of his stupidity.
David looking at Bathsheba bathing is akin to a perv setting up a camera in a ladies’ locker room.

Let’s be real. David was a saved man, but he did some very bad things. He was a sinner, just like us all.

I don’t think every woman in the #metoo movement was actually harassed or raped, but most of them were.

Just because a woman shows her cleavage, it is not an invitaton for men to touch. It may be an invitation to look, but not touch.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#11
opinions are all over the place it seems with one exception. David should not have been there and he was apparently overlooking where she was bathing but it seems that women bathing outside were usually not completely naked

I think the biblical account is pretty plain as to where the blame rested
Yes, even David admitted he was to blame in Psalm 51. I think this is part of the reason why he was a man after God’s own heart. David was contrite and he takes the blame for his actions. He doesn’t excuse it by saying “Bathsheba shouldn’t have been on the roof enticing me.” He shoulders the blame.

Men who blame women for harassment because the women are dressing scantily make me sick.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,316
13,706
113
#12
Why should today's concepts be applied to that time when the MeToo Movement is total hypocrisy? Many of the MeToo women went into those situations with their eyes open and their cleavages exposed.
The massive power differential in David's case has nothing to do with modern SJW's, the MeToo movement, or anything of the sort. If a similar situation occurred today, it would probably be considered rape. Of course, I strongly suspect that this sort of thing happens frequently in dictatorships.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#13
The massive power differential in David's case has nothing to do with modern SJW's, the MeToo movement, or anything of the sort. If a similar situation occurred today, it would probably be considered rape. Of course, I strongly suspect that this sort of thing happens frequently in dictatorships.
Sure it is rape- what is a woman going to say to the king? The women who are pressured into sleeping with their bosses are also raped. The sex is definitely not consensual, no matter how much Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lauer try to frame it.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#14
Why should today's concepts be applied to that time when the MeToo Movement is total hypocrisy? Many of the MeToo women went into those situations with their eyes open and their cleavages exposed.

Bathsheba had no business bathing in the nude when her rooftop could easily be viewed. Surely she would have known this simply by looking around. Bathsheba could have also refused to go along had she chosen to do so, and David would have been ashamed of his stupidity.

Nehemiah I am surprised at how you answer here. The Bible makes NO mention of her being nude and no mention of anyone out of place but David

since I didn't know, I looked up customs of that day regarding bathing for women, and most often they were not nude but used some kind of covering while bathing

just love what you said about exposed cleavages. in my experience, you can have a jacket on and some men will still leer or worse

I think your post is somewhat prejudicial against women

the next time you are a good looking woman and men make unwanted advances, come on back and let us know how it made you feel :(
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#15
Sure it is rape- what is a woman going to say to the king? The women who are pressured into sleeping with their bosses are also raped. The sex is definitely not consensual, no matter how much Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lauer try to frame it.

or you can walk out and who needs that job anyway

the Bible doesn't give us alot of detail on the David/Bathsheba thing, but she may very well not have been naked

David was bored and was caught in his sin and I think we can hardly blame the woman in this case

honestly some men just don't get it. there are some women who say no, mean it but are forced
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#16
I think she was raped. The reason why she was bathing on the roof is because Israel is hot. People spend a lot of time on their roofs. She was minding her own business.

David was not where he was supposed to be. He was supposed to be at the forefront of the war. Instead, he was being a perv looking at a woman in the privacy of her own rooftop. People in Israel slept on the roofs, and probably had sex on their roofs- it is not immodest, just a cultural tradition.
He had the men bring her to him. She didn’t know David was spying on her. He basically used his power to make her his wife.

Read what Nathan tells him- David took Bathsheba just like the man in the story took the poor man’s ewe lamb.

Just because it is not recorded, it does not mean Bathsheba did not cry. God was good to Bathsheba, He gave her Solomon. It is Bathsheba who tells her precious Lemuel about the Proverbs 31 woman. I believe Bathsheba was that woman to Uriah.

It was not Bathsheba’s fault at all. She could say #metoo.

David reaped what he sowed. He raped Bathsheba, and his son raped his daughter.
Her rooftop was obviously not private, and she could have made it so with curtains. However, I always thought the ewe represented Uriah, I never even had the thought that it could represent Bathsheba. See, this is why its better to study together, more heads give more angles to explore. But the biggest kicker is the idea you presented me about the Proverbs 31 wife and mother. What woman could have possibly influenced him to write such a thing, if not his own mother? (Too bad she didn't speak to him about too many wives and concubines).

This does not happen often, only a couple other times in my decades of being online, but I gotta say something here. I do not come on here to be right, but to spread truth as I know it, and change to truth if I learn it... You have changed my mind. Thank you for helping me see what I hadn't.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#17
or you can walk out and who needs that job anyway

the Bible doesn't give us alot of detail on the David/Bathsheba thing, but she may very well not have been naked

David was bored and was caught in his sin and I think we can hardly blame the woman in this case

honestly some men just don't get it. there are some women who say no, mean it but are forced
I still think the women who went with Weinstein and Lauer were coerced. Especially the young 20 somethings who don’t have that much sense.

Maybe a woman thinks “I’ll just do it this time to get or keep this job, I can get through anything. I’ll just make my mind go to another place. It’ll be over, and I’ll keep my job.”

Then, later on, self loathing sets in because of what they agreed to do for mercenary reasons. I feel sorry for them.

Then there were women who had to put up with unwanted passes and comments from their bosses, and maybe they felt they had to grin and bear it.

I don’t know, I know what happened to the women in Hollywood and New York is not the same as being forcibly raped- but it is still very bad behavior by powerful men. Charlie Rose supposedly walked around naked in front of women and the women just had to “deal with it” because he was the boss.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#18
Her rooftop was obviously not private, and she could have made it so with curtains. However, I always thought the ewe represented Uriah, I never even had the thought that it could represent Bathsheba. See, this is why its better to study together, more heads give more angles to explore. But the biggest kicker is the idea you presented me about the Proverbs 31 wife and mother. What woman could have possibly influenced him to write such a thing, if not his own mother? (Too bad she didn't speak to him about too many wives and concubines).

This does not happen often, only a couple other times in my decades of being online, but I gotta say something here. I do not come on here to be right, but to spread truth as I know it, and change to truth if I learn it... You have changed my mind. Thank you for helping me see what I hadn't.
Too often, I come on to be right. I’m very opionated and stubborn. Thanks for being gracious.

I think in the very first verse of Proverbs 31, it says “These are the words of the mother to Lemuel”, apparently, Bathsheba had a pet name for Solomon, which was Lemuel. Even though Solomon wrote it down, Bathsheba told him about what to look for in a wife.

Thanks again for being gracious, I need to be more open to learning and not be such a know-it-all.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#19
David looking at Bathsheba bathing is akin to a perv setting up a camera in a ladies’ locker room.

Let’s be real. David was a saved man, but he did some very bad things. He was a sinner, just like us all.

I don’t think every woman in the #metoo movement was actually harassed or raped, but most of them were.

Just because a woman shows her cleavage, it is not an invitaton for men to touch. It may be an invitation to look, but not touch.
It is definitely sinful to purposely show cleavage or but crack. It is also sinful for a man to force himself on a woman no matter how she is dressed.