Water and Spirit

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Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
#1
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism

Just interesting thoughts
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,380
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#2
Some would argue that the natural sense of the passage clearly parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (John 3:4) and with "flesh" (John 3:6). Simply stated, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water"); the second is Spirit.

Have you considered living water in John 3:5? Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. Water baptism is the picture or symbol of the new birth, but not the means of securing it.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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South
adelaiderevival.com
#3
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit
Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism
Just interesting thoughts
YES that is exactly what he meant
fulfilled in Acts 2:38 - how to be saved
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,943
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Florida
#4
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism

Just interesting thoughts
I believe 'born of water' refers to childbirth and not water baptism.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,109
14,745
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#6
I believe 'born of water' refers to childbirth and not water baptism.
Amen....he even qualifies it as such....that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit.....

Of course the water salvationists must peddle their wares......!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,423
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#7
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism
WATER = THE WORD OF GOD (THE GOSPEL)
SPIRIT = THE HOLY SPIRIT

It is only through the preaching of the Gospel and the power of the Spirit that sinners are born again -- born of the Spirit or born of God. The Gospel generates saving faith (Rom 10:17).

The Gospel is the seed of the New Birth (1 Pet 1:23-25) and also the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). So water has been used as a metaphor for the Word of God (Eph 5:26). And it is called "clean water" in Ezekiel 36:25.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
144
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Bahrain
#8
Good stuff people,

John 3:5-7 (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

So now reading this we see to Enter the kingdom of God we have to be both Flesh and Spirit. interesting.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
1,343
481
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#9
Interesting thread, born of water hmm, must have another meaning to it rather than born out of water for a tree seed is born out of water. I think every living thing today is born from a water in closer maybe.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
1,343
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#10
the man from dust hmm.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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565
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#11
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism

Just interesting thoughts
Water represents a complete cleansing, or if you prefer a new birth or a new beginning. So instead of being born of physical parents, that cannot happen again, such a person is born of God through the Holy Spirit and we become a new creation in Christ and as such we would expect to see a new Christlike spirit in that person.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#12
All you need to help you answer is what Jesus said later (or did not say) when he told him HOW one is born again.

For God so loved the world he gave his only beggotten son that whoever believed in him will never perish but has ETERNAL LIFE. “

Being born again gives you life
Jesus calls it ETERNAL
Not once did jesus mention or even HINT that any baptism was involved.

People trying to make water mean baptism are adding something to the text which s not there.
 
Sep 6, 2014
5,075
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bereanbeacon.org
#13
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 

Mezame83

Active member
Mar 18, 2019
164
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#14
John 15:3 comes to mind.

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,073
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83
#15
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism

Just interesting thoughts
Some people say that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and they try to take out the burial part of it.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus said born of water, and the Spirit.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Baptism does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

If we are buried with Jesus in baptism we shall rise to newness of life, for if we are planted together with Him, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

A person cannot skip the second step in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus which He died, and took away the sins of the world, and we repent, and die out to sins, and He was buried, and laid down those sins, and we are buried, water baptized, and lay down those sins, and He rose from the dead, and we receive the Spirit and rise to new newness of life.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Baptism is for the washing away of sins.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Jews were water baptized.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Samaritans were water baptized.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Gentiles were water baptized, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Which Jesus is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

For the Father said in Isaiah 52 that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father, and the words that He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works.

And Jesus said He came in the Father's name.

The prophet Agur asked in Proverbs, what is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you can tell, which Jesus is the name of both the Father, and the Son.

And in Hebrews it says that the Son inherited the name from the Father.

And the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

But water baptism can be bypassed if a person wants to be baptized, but dies before that time, or a lack of knowledge not being their fault, for if a person sees in the Bible that it states water baptism is necessary, and they ignore it, then how do they have an excuse.

And some do not preach it, and some say it is not necessary, so many are not water baptized.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God plainly states that He wants all people to be saved, but some will say that He chose in the beginning who would be saved, and not saved, without their choice.

But then that means God's kingdom is not true love.

Some people have a form of living for God, but they deny the Spirit leading them, for they will not let go of all the flesh, but want to enjoy sins, and then have an excuse that they are still right with God despite their sins.

For they say they cannot abstain from sins, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, but the Bible says that if they hate sin, and do not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and show the ways of the Spirit, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

And they do not understand Paul when he says we are not saved by works, but by faith, that it means that when we first come to Christ we are in the flesh, for we have not received the Spirit yet, so all we can do is have faith, and none of our works can save us.

But then Paul speaks when we receive the Spirit we have to have charity, love in action, works, or we are nothing, and have erred from the faith.

For Paul said that he could have all faith as to remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.

And James says the same thing as Paul that if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, for a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

For out of faith, hope, and charity, charity is the greatest.

Charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Which John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word only, or in tongue, but love in deed, and in truth.

So love has to be done in works for it to apply, so faith can apply, because love is greater than faith.

And that is why we have to have works to be right with God, which Jesus addressed 2 Churches in Revelation, and said their works were lacking, and not right before God, and to repent of it, and do the works.

But they want to drag not saved by works throughout their walk with God, and do not understand Paul.

So they say water baptism is not necessary for salvation even though it is part of the Gospel of Christ that He was buried, and we have to be buried with Him to rise to newness of life.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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#16
This verse sounds strange saved through flood waters, the water was released to destroy everything, if one of the eight fell overboard into the water they would have drowned

1 Peter 3
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.
In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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#18
Just been having some thoughts on Jesus words , must be born of water and spirit

Any thoughts on whether this refers to water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism

Just interesting thoughts
Water - is being born to a mother, human.
Spirit - is being born of the Holy Spirit.