Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

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DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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The NT was written in Greek. So you will not see the name YHWH.
Neither my son, nor my daughter, address me by my name. They call me "Dad".
Jesus addresses his Literal father as "Father". He does, I'm sure, know his name, though.

As for JW or LDS, for that matter, you probably know more than I do.

I do know that there re no "J" or "V" in ancient Hebrew.
I know that Elijah's name in Hebrew ends with "YAHUU" (referring to God's name)
I know that Judah's name in Hebrew begins with "YAHUU" (referring to God's name)
I know that Ancient Hebrew has no "VAV" but has "WAW" (which can have the long "U" sound as above).
I also know that the "H" has the "ah" sound (not "eh") (sounds Canadian)
I also know that "YAHUAH" might not be correct. There just isn't a better candidate.
Do you know of any place in NT where Jesus prays to "the LORD" ???
 
Mar 17, 2022
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IF water is necessary..... regarding entrance into heaven, then tell Jesus he didnt need to go to the Cross.

In other words....If water and the Cross are what God requires for you to go to heaven, then He's pretty confused, as He said that "faith is counted as righteousness", and that "justification is based on faith".



Faith in what?
Water ? ???

Not quite.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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The NT was written in Greek. So you will not see the name YHWH.
Neither my son, nor my daughter, address me by my name. They call me "Dad".
Jesus addresses his Literal father as "Father". He does, I'm sure, know his name, though.

As for JW or LDS, for that matter, you probably know more than I do.

I do know that there re no "J" or "V" in ancient Hebrew.
I know that Elijah's name in Hebrew ends with "YAHUU" (referring to God's name)
I know that Judah's name in Hebrew begins with "YAHUU" (referring to God's name)
I know that Ancient Hebrew has no "VAV" but has "WAW" (which can have the long "U" sound as above).
I also know that the "H" has the "ah" sound (not "eh") (sounds Canadian)
I also know that "YAHUAH" might not be correct. There just isn't a better candidate.
You said: "Jesus addresses his Literal father as "Father". He does, I'm sure, know his name, though."

Let your search for Discovery begin with what you said, which leads to the question: "Why did JESUS not pray to YHWH???"

Peace Brother
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Ok ok, where is the verse that says how to get into the first resurrection? That's a bit of my point.
 

DavidTree

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IF water is necessary..... regarding entrance into heaven, then tell Jesus he didnt need to go to the Cross.

In other words....If water and the Cross are what God requires for you to go to heaven, then He's pretty confused, as He said that "faith is counted as righteousness", and that "justification is based on faith".



Faith in what?
Water ? ???

Not quite.
Yes Brother, i have said this many times just as Moses, the Prophets and the Apostles made it also clear = HIS Blood washes us CLEAN" - Amen
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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No I am not saying that. I am saying that my OP says that in order to be resurrected you need to be water baptized.
So you are saying people can still be saved without water baptism but will not be resurrected? Correct?
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Ok ok, where is the verse that says how to get into the first resurrection? That's a bit of my point.
Here it is Brother,

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
not by works of righteousness which we have done(water baptism),
but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus ch3
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Here it is Brother,

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
not by works of righteousness which we have done(water baptism),
but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus ch3
Romans 9:14-18 KJV
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


"and whom he will he hardeneth." that's interesting. What does that mean?
 

DavidTree

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Romans 9:14-18 KJV
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


"and whom he will he hardeneth." that's interesting. What does that mean?
It means that ELOHIM is completely Beyond our small existence compared to HIS ETERNAL BEING and ALL that includes of HIMSELF.

Our brain/intellect compared to Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Holy Spirit - what type of comparison can we make???
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Of course He didn't. That is very obvious. Why you think anyone thinks what you incorrectly think is a mystery.
I was AGREEING with you!
My apologies. I was so wrapped up in dealing with rm's posts I must have forgotten who I was responding to. I will certainly try to pay better attention to all my responses. There is no excuse for my blunder.
 

FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
OK, there's your error. The new birth has NOTHING to do with water. I gave you what John the baptizer said about Jesus in Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

John didn't say "He will baptize you with WATER and the Holy Spirit". Read Acts 10 and 11, which explains the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Water is almost always a reference to baptism or ceremonial cleansing in the Bible, not embrionic fluid.
From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL04/VOL04_03.html

3:5 "unless one is born of water and the Spirit" This is another THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE. There may be a contrast (so typical of John's writings) between
  1. the physical versus the spiritual (no ARTICLE with "spirit")
  2. the earthly versus the heavenly
This contrast is implied in John 3:6.
The theories for the meaning of "water" are
  1. the rabbis use it of male semen
  2. the water of child birth
  3. John's baptism symbolizing repentance (cf. John 1:26; 3:23)
  4. the OT background meaning ceremonial sprinkling by the Spirit (cf. Ezek. 36:25-27)
  5. Christian baptism (although Nicodemus could not have understood it that way, first mentioned by Justin and Irenaeus)
In context theory #3, John the Baptist's water baptism and John's statement about the Messiah's baptizing with the Holy Spirit—must be the most obvious meanings. Birth, in this context, is metaphorical and we must not let Nicodemus' misunderstanding of the terms dominate the interpretation. Therefore, theory #1 is inappropriate. Although Nicodemus would not have understood Jesus' words as referring to later Christian baptism, John the Apostle often interjects his theology into the historical words of Jesus (cf. John 3:14-21).
Theory #2 would fit John's dualism of above and below, God's realm and the earthly realm. In defining these terms one must determine whether they are contrasting (#1 or #2) or complementary (#4).
D. A. Carson, Exegetical Fallacies, mentions another option: that both words refer to one birth, an eschatological birth following Ezek. 36:25-27, which describes the "new covenant" of Jer. 31:31-34 (p. 42).

Your false doctrine doesn’t make any sense.
You are free to what you think it means. But I have shared one commentary's thoughts on what "water and Spirit" mean.

I'm comfortable with my understanding. Fortunately, salvation does not hinge on John 3:6, but rather John 3:16. :)

Doesn’t really sound like how Jesus speaks either. You basically have Christ saying “you must have been born to be alive so that you can be born again.”
v.7 clarifies what Jesus was telling Nic. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again."

This does show that Jesus was referencing both physical and spiritual birth.

So, iow, Jesus told Nic you must be born twice. v.5 mentions both births.

Obviously Nicodemus was alive and didn’t need to be told that. Jesus was speaking about spiritual truths, not the carnal live birth of people.
See above.
 

FreeGrace2

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Ok ok, where is the verse that says how to get into the first resurrection? That's a bit of my point.
Happy to share again.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The first resurrection is for the saved; those who belong to Him. That's how to get to the first resurrection; belong to Him.

Every believer should easily understand how to "belong to Him". It is through faith in Him.
 

FreeGrace2

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Romans 9:14-18 KJV
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

"and whom he will he hardeneth." that's interesting. What does that mean?
v.17 indicates how God "hardens whom He will harden". In the story of Pharaoh, we find in Exodus 9 God telling Pharaoh the "what for".

9-
15 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth.
16 But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
17 You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go.

v.15 tells Pharaoh the ONLY REASON he was still alive at that point was because God didn't "wipe him off the earth"!!!
v.16 gives the reason God raised up Pharaoh. To show His power and that His name be proclaimed everywhere.
v.17 explains that it was Pharoah himself who was hardening himself, by all his "no's" to God.

At that point, by simply letting Pharaoh continue to live, ALLOWED Pharaoh to keep hardening himself. That's how God hardened his heart; by continuing to allow him to keep saying "no".

Pharaoh was doing it to himself all along, but God could have simply "wiped him off the face of the earth", which would have ceased all hardening of Pharaoh's heart.

Let's summarize all the plagues and how the Bible describes them.

Plague #1 - waters turned to blood
7:14 - Then the LORD said to Moses, “Pharaoh’s heart is unyielding; he refuses to let the people go. Hardening his own heart.

Plague #2 - frogs
8:15 - But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.

Plague #3 - gnats
8:19 - the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not listen, just as the LORD had said.

Plague #4 - flies
8:32 - But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.

Plague #5 - dead livestock
9:7 - Pharaoh investigated and found that not even one of the animals of the Israelites had died. Yet his heart was unyielding and he would not let the people go.

Plague #6 - boils
9:12 - But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.
note: The Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart by keeping him alive to continue to resist.

Plague #7 - hail
9:34,35
34 When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts.
35 So Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses.

Plague #8 - locusts
10:1 - Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them

Plague #9 - darkness
10:27 - But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go.

Plague #10 - firstborn sons die
11:10 - Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

Note that the Bible tells us that Pharaoh hardened his own heart for the first 5 plagues, and the last 5 plagues the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. The quote from Romans 9 came from Exodus 9:17, which was during the 7th plague.

So the meaning is clear: God hardened Pharaoh's heart by keeping him alive so he could continue to refuse God's will.
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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Good Morning Magenta,
This, what you say is true.

So let's go on what we are told = no mention of water baptism with the thief in the given account.
If the FATHER thought that was important to the account given HE would easily included that aspect in the life of the theif prior to the thief being hung on the cross.

What is THE SINGLE Aspect/Virture/REQUIRMENT that saves our souls and the soul of the Thief in this account given to us?

Just as it is FULLY Displayed in the account given...........................let me know what it is according to "It is Written", in the account given to us.

There is no precedent that suggest Christ would have commented on the Thief's history. Geesscch,....Christ was not there making a general speech.
He saw fit to grant the Thief special dispensation.

See below....John 3; 22-23

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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....timed out...


...also someone on here stated that Christ never baptized anyone. I knew He had and finally found it;

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Praise God.
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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Maintain as you wish but, you can never change scriptures which requires baptism.
You need to have the discernment to understand what "baptism" means.

The Bible describes 7 of them, some real (dry) and some ritual (wet). Did you know that?

Rather, maybe you just don't understand it.[/QUOTE]



That is a coop-out...read God's word....not mine.
 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
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't
IF water is necessary..... regarding entrance into heaven, then tell Jesus he didnt need to go to the Cross.

In other words....If water and the Cross are what God requires for you to go to heaven, then He's pretty confused, as He said that "faith is counted as righteousness", and that "justification is based on faith".

Faith in what?
Water ? ???

Not quite.

Wow...one can mix and match words as you wish...doesn't change scripture. Faith in God's word.
Baptism is required per scriptures. So please..tell Him His word is not worthy.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
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timed out....

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
 

JeffA

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Mar 31, 2022
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FreeGrace2 said:
Of course He didn't. That is very obvious. Why you think anyone thinks what you incorrectly think is a mystery.

My apologies. I was so wrapped up in dealing with rm's posts I must have forgotten who I was responding to. I will certainly try to pay better attention to all my responses. There is no excuse for my blunder.
LOL I thought that's what happened.
You were certainly on a roll and I was enjoying it!
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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...also someone on here stated that Christ never baptized anyone. I knew He had and finally found it;

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Praise God.
However, John 4:1-2 clarifies 3:22.

1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—
2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

It helps to read enough of the context to understand individual verses.