WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.

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crossnote

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So you not agree with jesus

Matt 25

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
That judgment isn’t of the Church, but rather of the nation's...


Matthew 25:32 KJV
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Those gentiles will be judged by how they treated the Jews during the most antisemitic period of human history...the Great Tribulation.
 

Jackson123

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FreeGrace2 said:
Just as I said. God commanded him to build an ark and he obeyed.

This is just a very odd question. What I said is TRUE. God commanded him and he built it. How does that equate to not trusting God?


Your conclusions are your own. And quite wrong.

Do you think he would have built an ark if he didn't trust God? That's the better question.


Yet yet. You are confused, however.
To make me not confuse answer my question
What cause Noah save from that flood?
Obey God and build an arch, or not obey God and never build an arch, he good in swimming and able to swim for 6 months without sleeping or eating
FreeGrace2 said:
Just as I said. God commanded him to build an ark and he obeyed.

This is just a very odd question. What I said is TRUE. God commanded him and he built it. How does that equate to not trusting God?


Your conclusions are your own. And quite wrong.

Do you think he would have built an ark if he didn't trust God? That's the better question.


Yet yet. You are confused, however.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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That judgment isn’t of the Church, but rather of the nation's...


Matthew 25:32 KJV
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Those gentiles will be judged by how they treated the Jews during the most antisemitic period of human history...the Great Tribulation.
So you believe church is not part of nation?
And a nation that helping the poor go to heaven?
Is that nation on the right believe in Jesus or not?
 

FreeGrace2

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25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

My sheep listen to My voice

What is that mean?
Exactly what it says. What the passages DOESN'T SAY OR MEAN is that eternal life is given on the basis of listening or obeying. Why do you keep trying to FORCE that meaning into the text?

Say Jesus make voice
No, He never said that.

Love your enemy
Yes, He did say that. But NOT to receive eternal life.

His sheep listen, but hate they anemy than Jesus give them eternal life?
I cannot figure out this sentence. Could you please re-phrase?

As long as listen, it doesn't matter obey or not?
It always matters whether a believer, a child of God, obeys or not. When they do, they are blessed, but when they don't, they receive God's painful discipline. Heb 12:11.

If only listen but not obey, save Jews on this verse save because they listen to Jesus, read these verse
Sorry, but i don't understand what this verse is trying to say. Could you please rephrase?

You only read one verse without context
John 10.
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
There is nothing in context that links hearing and following with receiving eternal life.

IF you are interested in HOW one receives eternal life, read these verses:

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

These verses totally REFUTE your theories and claims.

Eternal life is possessed on the basis of believing in Jesus Christ for salvaton.

The commands for obedience are directed to those who are already saved, children of God, regenerated.

You still have everything backwards.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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If we look to God's word, then we find that we are judged for salvation by faith not works, yet that Christ will judge us by our works. Our work is useless if it is done for salvation, but if we listen to scripture it tells us many times to work for the Lord.
James 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

We will also be judged by our deeds by Christ to establish our rewards or loss of rewards. 2 Cor. 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
2Cor5:10 is a judgment of rewards and loss of rewards, it has nothing to do with our eternal standing.

If salvation were by works, how much works would you need to be saved?

John 5:24 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 

FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Just as I said. God commanded him to build an ark and he obeyed.
You don't believe Noah faith cause him obey am I correct?
Faith doesn't cause anything. You continue to be IN-correct.

Faith leads to obedience. But again, IF IF IF you were correct about faith causing obedience, then explain WHY so many believers in the Bible have screwed up so much. Can you do that?
 

crossnote

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So you believe church is not part of nation?
And a nation that helping the poor go to heaven?
Is that nation on the right believe in Jesus or not?
The nations are another name for Gentiles. You can be in that group if you want to or be in the group that has be washed in the blood of the Lamb.
 

FreeGrace2

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To make me not confuse answer my question
Not sure I can help you out here. I'll give you an example.

What cause Noah save from that flood?
Obey God and build an arch, or not obey God and never build an arch, he good in swimming and able to swim for 6 months without sleeping or eating
Your own statements are very confusing to figure out. So you are already confused. I'm not making you confused at all.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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We must accept all scripture as equal truths.

Scripture tells us to be perfect Matt. 5:48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect”. Yet if we say we have achieved perfection, instead of giving our will to be perfect to God, we lie. We are perfect only through the perfection of Christ, but we must give our will to Him and will to be sinless, as Christ makes us as if we were sinless.

Scripture says we are judged by our deeds 2 Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil”. Scripture also says we are judged by faith alone. Eph. 2:8 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast”

When Christ gives us forgiveness, we know it is not based on our deeds but on our faith. We know to have faith in Christ is to have faith in His instructions to us as well as His ability to forgive our sins. We cannot live with the sin that Christ frees us from and remain free from sin.


How do you think these scripture truths all work together to be the truth of the Lord and not opposing instructions?
The word "Perfect " means to be complete " lacking nothing. Some have taken that and made it about martial things wrong !.

Jesus was saying this about loving your neighbor wanting things if we read in Matthew 5 we will see:

Jesus Speaking here:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.



What is the "therefore" there for? IF you do what Jesus said to love your enemy and bless those who curse you and you do that

Therefore you shall be Complete as God IS always Complete and you will have gone the second mile as Jesus talked about in the chapter.

Those who are not Christians their works are all done in unrighteousness and are not accepted by God.
 

Jackson123

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Not sure I can help you out here. I'll give you an example.


Your own statements are very confusing to figure out. So you are already confused. I'm not making you confused at all.
I know you not me confuse, but answer my questio

What make Noah save from the flood?
 

Jackson123

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John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have etern
You are confuse and don't understand what is believe in that verse

Believe not only believe that Jesus God, more than that, believe mean believe all His teaching include how he judged on the last day
N
 

Jackson123

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The nations are another name for Gentiles. You can be in that group if you want to or be in the group that has be washed in the blood of the Lamb.
What do you mean by gentile? Non Jews?
Is gentile need to believe in Jesus to be save, or only need help the poor?

Is Jews not a nation , is Israel not a nation?
 

Jackson123

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Exactly what it says. What the passages DOESN'T SAY OR MEAN is that eternal life is given on the basis of listening or obeying. Why do you keep trying to FORCE that meaning into the text?
Don't Jesus say His sheep follow Him?
Not His sheep not follow Him?

Have you learn deductive logic?

Aristotle, the father of deductive logic give an example

Human are mortal
Aristoteles is human
So aristoteles is mortal

Jesus save his sheep

His sheep listen His voice

So Jesus save people that listen His voice
 

FreeGrace2

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But you don't believe to be save don't need to obey font you?
I believe ONLY what the Bible says. Which I have already shared with you.

So the real question is; do YOU believe the verses about how to receive eternal life? It seems you DON'T.
 

FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
You are confuse and don't understand what is believe in that verse
Really? What makes you think so?

The Greek word for "believe" means the SAME THING in every verse. If you think differently, then it is YOU who are the confused one.

Believe not only believe that Jesus God, more than that, believe mean believe all His teaching include how he judged on the last day
N
No, for salvation, which we call "saving faith" means to believe that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the Son of God, and that He saves those who believe in Him.

How many verse would you like to see for yourself?
 

FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Exactly what it says. What the passages DOESN'T SAY OR MEAN is that eternal life is given on the basis of listening or obeying. Why do you keep trying to FORCE that meaning into the text?
Don't Jesus say His sheep follow Him?
Not His sheep not follow Him?

Have you learn deductive logic?

Aristotle, the father of deductive logic give an example

Human are mortal
Aristoteles is human
So aristoteles is mortal
Are you understanding anything that I post? From your responses, it appears that you do not.

Jesus save his sheep

His sheep listen His voice

So Jesus save people that listen His voice
Your "logic" is called fuzzy logic. It isn't anything close to what Aristotle described.

What you have isn't even logic. It's just some made up statements.

I've already given you a list of verses about how to receive eternal life. But you've just discarded all of them and you continue to hang on to your theories and opinions about the Bible.

It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion if you refuse to acknowledge what the Bible actually says.

Again, there are NO WORDS in John 10:27 and 28 that show that listening and following are conditions for receiving eternal life, which seems to be your claim.

v.27 is a description of what believers (SAVED PEOPLE) do. It isn't about HOW to be saved.

v.28 informs us about HOW receive eternal life. Believers, who are SAVED PEOPLE.

And the result of receiving eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish.

Very simple.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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FreeGrace2 said:
Exactly what it says. What the passages DOESN'T SAY OR MEAN is that eternal life is given on the basis of listening or obeying. Why do you keep trying to FORCE that meaning into the text?

Are you understanding anything that I post? From your responses, it appears that you do not.


Your "logic" is called fuzzy logic. It isn't anything close to what Aristotle described.

What you have isn't even logic. It's just some made up statements.

I've already given you a list of verses about how to receive eternal life. But you've just discarded all of them and you continue to hang on to your theories and opinions about the Bible.

It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion if you refuse to acknowledge what the Bible actually says.

Again, there are NO WORDS in John 10:27 and 28 that show that listening and following are conditions for receiving eternal life, which seems to be your claim.

v.27 is a description of what believers (SAVED PEOPLE) do. It isn't about HOW to be saved.

v.28 informs us about HOW receive eternal life. Believers, who are SAVED PEOPLE.

And the result of receiving eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish.

Very simple.
My sheep follow and listen my voice

To me it's mean My sheep obey me
You not agree with my statement don't you?