We must obey

[motojojo]

This amazes me that this is a topic and no one is discussing deeper things than this milk where is your meat? Christ has said that He will forgive us! The problem is in like all the old Christians say I just love these new Christians they have such fire for the Lord but someday they will settle down and be just like us, thats the problem without meat you don't grow and you lose your salvation, the Gospel of Christ is so watered down that real meat makes them sick. Eat some meat and be on fire for GOD.

 

[Thaddaeus]

We either want to obey Christ , and in the end receive eternal life for a faithful life lived, or you don't. There's no middle ground.

How is it that you can say that If I believe in God for My salvation that I fall into the group who do not want to obey God!!!!! that is judging me. I want to obey God every time He tells me to do something, Do I ? NO! but That does not mean that He kicks me out, God knows my heart He know how much every night when I lay down I long to here the words well done thy good and faithful servant, but I just hear myself remind me somehow that I let Him down again, then I wake up the next day and ask God to forgive my debts as I forgive my debtors and try it again today. Let me say this I don't believe that God knowing the weakness of myself , would ever put a Higher standard on me than He would Himself, and when Peter asked Jesus how many times do we forgive a brother 7 times But Jesus said nay but 7 times 70, so you're going to tell me that God is going under that number with my forgiveness. .


then the punishment after chasetisement does not work is death but not A spiritual death:

1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[MahogonySnail]

How is it that you can say that If I believe in God for My salvation that I fall into the group who do not want to obey God!!!!! that is judging me.

Now where did I claim that? You are upset because I said that we need to obey God? WOW. You claim God won't kick us out of his family, but remember that a child may be disinherited. Paul taught that people in sin won't inherit the kingdom of God. i.e. even though you are a christian and born of God you can be disinherited.

then the punishment after chasetisement does not work is death but not A spiritual death:

So they die in their sin even if it is incest or raping children and still go to heaven WOW.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Now where did I claim that? You are upset because I said that we need to obey God? WOW. You claim God won't kick us out of his family, but remember that a child may be disinherited. Paul taught that people in sin won't inherit the kingdom of God. i.e. even though you are a christian and born of God you can be disinherited.




So they die in their sin even if it is incest or raping children and still go to heaven WOW.

MahogonySnailRe: We must obey
We either want to obey Christ , and in the end receive eternal life for a faithful life lived, or you don't. There's no middle ground.

see you did say it

I am not upset, I told you I was trusting the Lord for my salvation
better check the law on adoption children, for we are adopted children, heard a preacher, that was adopted when he was a child, talk about how many old laws are mirrored after the law and he said that a adopted child can not be disowned unless you reverse the legal adoption, so it would have to be God that would kick you out if you are adopted.

 

[MahogonySnail]

where did I say you are in a group that doesn't want to obey God? I know you want to obey God so i dont know why i would say that about you personally.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing that we must obey? Hopefully you agree that we must obey. I am trusting the Lord for salvation also, but I don't suppose that I can do as I please, just as I dont' suppose that I can break the laws of the land and still be allowed to escape a jail sentence.

 

[Thaddaeus]

where did I say you are in a group that doesn't want to obey God? I know you want to obey God so i dont know why i would say that about you personally.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing that we must obey? Hopefully you agree that we must obey. I am trusting the Lord for salvation also, but I don't suppose that I can do as I please, just as I dont' suppose that I can break the laws of the land and still be allowed to escape a jail sentence.

ok maybe this will help and again since it is your salvation, I'll let you make the call:

Mt 21:28But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.Mt 21:29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.Mt 21:30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.Mt 21:31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.Mt 21:32For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

two notes here please see this. both were called sons, one did the will of the father and one did not but both were still called sons. in verse 23 Jesus was talking with those that came to him; the chief priests and the elders of the people. and said they were part of this parable But Note 2 Please see this Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.one group went in first But notice please that both groups went in , both Sons if they were sons at one time they were still sons even the one that did not the will of the father, does not say anywhere that the relationship between the disobedient son and the father was severed at any point,

 

[Definition_Christ]

We can not separate faith and works.. They go hand in hand.. If you have faith you will have fruits.. Your faith and action together is what makes your relationship with Christ effective.

 

[Thaddaeus]

We can not separate faith and works.. They go hand in hand.. If you have faith you will have fruits.. Your faith and action together is what makes your relationship with Christ effective.

amen with faith and works but it is the works of Christ that are all the works we need,but even a saved person can have bad works this is clear in this set of scriptures, and they still hold their salvation.

1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Yes Thaddeus, they were both sons, but the prodigal son didn't die in his unrepentant state, so you can't really use that example. Look at the case of Lazarus and the Rich man, Abraham calls him "son" and the rich man calls Abraham "Father", even while the rich man is being tormented in the flames. Now that's an example of someone dying , the rich man, who obviously was thought to be God's son and thought God to be his father, yet still went to hell. Look in the KJV if you like, and tell me you can't see the words "son" and "father" there?

Plus we have early church writings that use the example of a son being disinherited by the father as what happens if God rejects his own.

Thaddeus do you or do you not believe that if a christian man, say a priest, rapes children , who once was a lovely man and called to the ministry and blessed by God, and does not change his ways, he is still going to heaven? So we have a formerly disobedient lovely man of God, who has an unresolved issue, maybe he gets divorced or maybe unresolved anger towards his parents or shame from his own abusive childhood, and he starts to abuse children , thereby becoming a disobedient child of God.
Let's hear some straight answers from you for a change.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Yes Thaddeus, they were both sons, but the prodigal son didn't die in his unrepentant state, so you can't really use that example. Look at the case of Lazarus and the Rich man, Abraham calls him "son" and the rich man calls Abraham "Father", even while the rich man is being tormented in the flames. Now that's an example of someone dying , the rich man, who obviously was thought to be God's son and thought God to be his father, yet still went to hell. Look in the KJV if you like, and tell me you can't see the words "son" and "father" there?

Plus we have early church writings that use the example of a son being disinherited by the father as what happens if God rejects his own.

Thaddeus do you or do you not believe that if a christian man, say a priest, rapes children , who once was a lovely man and called to the ministry and blessed by God, and does not change his ways, he is still going to heaven? So we have a formerly disobedient lovely man of God, who has an unresolved issue, maybe he gets divorced or maybe unresolved anger towards his parents or shame from his own abusive childhood, and he starts to abuse children , thereby becoming a disobedient child of God.
Let's hear some straight answers from you for a change.

in the story of the prodigal son does it ever state that the father disowned, the podigal son or ever read where the father ever said that you were never my son . the fellowship was severed but the relationship remained tact bad example on your part dude, I have a dughter that has past away, gone on to be with her Jesus But she is still my daughter, I can't talk with her or hold her anymore, but I am still her father, and will be able to restore all that death has taken through the shed Blood of Jesus, all that sin has taken will be restored through the Shed blood of Jesus,

Thaddeus do you or do you not believe that if a christian man, say a priest, rapes children , who once was a lovely man and called to the ministry and blessed by God, and does not change his ways, he is still going to heaven?

I won't give you my opinion but rather i will let scriptures answer your question, you be the judge it will be your salvation that you will effect with your belief, if one does not change his ways

1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

by this I believe God Is able to keep us from falling from Grace, you make the call.

look Jesus says that you die once, if we were spiritual dead when Christ saved us, then He inparted righteousness and brought us alive that we might have life . then how can our spirit die again show me in the scriptures where it says that the soul dieth over and over again and again. sin bringeth forth death But God giveth Life, if God opened the door to heaven through Grace who can shut it, if sin can cut through the Blood then how can the Blood wash away sin, which is greater sin or the Blood of Jesus. if sin then we are still in our sins but if the Blood then we are cleansed today and tomorrow, was there anything you could do to erase your sin for your salvation , if not then how can youhave power over sin now, you can't You still need Jesus and the Blood.

 

[MahogonySnail]

in the story of the prodigal son does it ever state that the father disowned, the podigal son or ever read where the father ever said that you were never my son . the fellowship was severed but the relationship remained tact bad example on your part dude, I have a dughter that has past away, gone on to be with her Jesus But she is still my daughter, I can't talk with her or hold her anymore, but I am still her father, and will be able to restore all that death has taken through the shed Blood of Jesus, all that sin has taken will be restored through the Shed blood of Jesus,

The prodigal son was not disinherited as he obtained the inheritance and spent it all. How can you explain the rich man calling Abraham "father" and Abraham calling the rich man "son" even while he was burning in the flames?

I won't give you my opinion but rather i will let scriptures answer your question, you be the judge it will be your salvation that you will effect with your belief, if one does not change his ways

1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Why are you afraid to give your opinion? If it's a yes say yes. Given this scripture and the way you interpret it, you do admit that you believe that a pedophile priest or pastor will go to heaven, right?

 

[pickles]

I was thinking about all this debate last night while in the word. When suddenly I felt God saying , what a unrully bunch we are. I thought about raising all of my children and how the debate as to what rules were more important and who was given more or why we leaniant with one and more stern with another. I remembered how we would tell them because we know your weaknesses and your streangths. We are the ones to judge as parents.
It suddenly hit me that that is why the argument over these things in the word can be so long and deverseGod gave us all of his rules and requrements. Because ultimatelly Our Lord Jesus is the Judge. He knows are weaknesses and streangths. There will always be the debate, the scripture comparison. Simply because the final voice is Jesus Our Lords. So we continue in Jesus my brothers and sisters. Im right there with you learning and debating. For this is one of his gifts.
Smiles and God bless, pickles

 

[Thaddaeus]

The prodigal son was not disinherited as he obtained the inheritance and spent it all. How can you explain the rich man calling Abraham "father" and Abraham calling the rich man "son" even while he was burning in the flames?

Don't tell me that you have never heard the term Father Abraham, who was the father of the children under bondage and the free children both father Abraham father of Isaac and Ishmael, two nations one father come on you knew this already

Why are you afraid to give your opinion? If it's a yes say yes. Given this scripture and the way you interpret it, you do admit that you believe that a pedophile priest or pastor will go to heaven, right?

you know I would rather you give me scriptures than your opion, all I am going to say on this is with God all things are possible, you disagree with that then that is you dude!!!

I believe God will take a saved person out of here before He will let him turn from Him, and walk away from His salvation, as far as priest who ever said that all priest are saved they believe in works for their salvation, Christ was not good enough they have to work for their salvation their faith is in their works, and not The works of Christ, I never said that a pedophile priest was saved you say that. I would say that they never knew Jesus or better yet Jesus never knew them. how else do you explain these verses. do you believe that ever priest or preacher is saved??

2co 11:13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.2co 11:14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.2co 11:15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[MahogonySnail]

you know I would rather you give me scriptures than your opion, all I am going to say on this is with God all things are possible, you disagree with that then that is you dude!!!

I believe God will take a saved person out of here before He will let him turn from Him, and walk away from His salvation, as far as priest who ever said that all priest are saved they believe in works for their salvation, Christ was not good enough they have to work for their salvation their faith is in their works, and not The works of Christ, I never said that a pedophile priest was saved you say that. I would say that they never knew Jesus or better yet Jesus never knew them. how else do you explain these verses. do you believe that ever priest or preacher is saved??

So you agree that if a priest becomes a pedophile he is not saved. What if this priest was formerly saved and not a pedophile and was by all standards, a Christian, and then became a pedophile, do you still say he is not saved?
You say it isn't possible, but I'm pretty sure it is possible.

I believe God will take a saved person out of here before He will let him turn from Him, and walk away from His salvation

That's your opinion, now where's your proof? I can count on one hand the number of people in the bible who God did not take out of here because they turned from Him. Rather, God said that He is patient and wants all to come to repentance, which sort of contradicts this idea of yours.

 

[greatkraw]

Now where did I claim that? You are upset because I said that we need to obey God? WOW. You claim God won't kick us out of his family, but remember that a child may be disinherited. Paul taught that people in sin won't inherit the kingdom of God. i.e. even though you are a christian and born of God you can be disinherited.




So they die in their sin even if it is incest or raping children and still go to heaven WOW.

Snail, to God ANY sin is sin.

He either can forgive all of them or he chooses to forgive none of them.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Yes he forgives all of them, but that is past sins only.

 

[greatkraw]

Yes he forgives all of them, but that is past sins only.

past sins only, from what point in time?

 

[MahogonySnail]

From when you repent /confess them. Like it says in 1 John, if we confess our sins, he will forgive us.

 

[watchmen]

Yes he forgives all of them, but that is past sins only.

past sins only, from what point in time?

From when you repent /confess them. Like it says in 1 John, if we confess our sins, he will forgive us.

Mahogony is right, and scripture confirms that he is.

Romans 3: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The teaching that God forgive our present and future sins the second we are saved is simply false and more importantly unbiblical. God forgives are past sins, and if we sin we need to repent of them to be forgiven as Mahogony wrote while quoting John.

Like it says in 1 John, if we confess our sins, he will forgive us

 

[MahogonySnail]

Thanks for the confirmation/second witness.
Yes, the Lord's prayer also confirms "forgive us our sins..."

God won't forgive present sins, because God cannot forgive something that has not been repented of. And God won't forgive future sins, because that would be God unfairly holding someone to guilt for a sin they have not yet committed.