Were Nephilim (Gen 6) judged differently by God?

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Did God's forgiveness ever, at any point, apply to angels?

  • Not sure. The Bible does not say

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

DavidTree

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4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Three (3) different groups in the Old Testament are being used in the Book of Jude to describe a fourth group in the New Testament.
#1The angels rebelled against God, because they despised dominion.
#2 The "people out of the land of Egypt, the Israelites spoke evil against Moses, They "spake evil of dignities"
#3 The Sodomites committed fornication: they were homosexuals. They are the group who "defiled the flesh"
The "certain men crept in unawares/filthy dreamers" were doing ALL THREE.

The reason you have this angels "defiled the flesh" thing stuck in your mind is because someone told you that angels mated with humans and produced giants and you beleived them. But it's plain as day in the Book of Jude that this is not a valid interpretation. I don't know how to explain it any better.
this is completely laughable my friend - are you that willing to wrongly divide up scripture to prove a hard heart of unbelief

the THREE Groups are INSEPARABLE because they ALL share in the SAME sin = SEXUAL IMMORALITY

religion is so lol x100
 

DavidTree

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4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Three (3) different groups in the Old Testament are being used in the Book of Jude to describe a fourth group in the New Testament.
#1The angels rebelled against God, because they despised dominion.
#2 The "people out of the land of Egypt, the Israelites spoke evil against Moses, They "spake evil of dignities"
#3 The Sodomites committed fornication: they were homosexuals. They are the group who "defiled the flesh"
The "certain men crept in unawares/filthy dreamers" were doing ALL THREE.

The reason you have this angels "defiled the flesh" thing stuck in your mind is because someone told you that angels mated with humans and produced giants and you beleived them. But it's plain as day in the Book of Jude that this is not a valid interpretation. I don't know how to explain it any better.
Your sin is exposed for you said this = "the angels despised dominion" = this is adding to the word of God and is sin on your part.

The filthy dreamers are the ones despising dominion, just as you now are doing by twisting scripture around
i suggest you humble yourself before God as you think yourself smarter then the Word.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Three (3) different groups in the Old Testament are being used in the Book of Jude to describe a fourth group in the New Testament.
#1The angels rebelled against God, because they despised dominion.
#2 The "people out of the land of Egypt, the Israelites spoke evil against Moses, They "spake evil of dignities"
#3 The Sodomites committed fornication: they were homosexuals. They are the group who "defiled the flesh"
The "certain men crept in unawares/filthy dreamers" were doing ALL THREE.

The reason you have this angels "defiled the flesh" thing stuck in your mind is because someone told you that angels mated with humans and produced giants and you beleived them. But it's plain as day in the Book of Jude that this is not a valid interpretation. I don't know how to explain it any better.
I was reading 2 Peter and I noticed how it ended.

There are some things hard to understand in them. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.

This part here is especially the message that I think is so important today: be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.

This is the message of Gen 6. It has always been the message throughout the entire bible.

A Judgment of Fire is coming. When the Son of Man comes again to judge the world it will be like it was in the days of Noah. People will be marrying ungodly people with no thought of turning to God any time soon, focused on the pleasures of this life and suddenly the judgment will come and they will suffer eternal destruction.

Peter did not want people to talk about Nephilim fantasies when they read his letter but Peter wanted them to be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.

Christians are falling away by the millions. They have been for decades. Some are coming back, hearing the call to repent before they wake up in hell with eternal regret.

We don't have time to talk about angel human hybrid giant babies. It is a distraction from this message:...

be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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I was reading 2 Peter and I noticed how it ended.

There are some things hard to understand in them. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.

This part here is especially the message that I think is so important today: be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.

This is the message of Gen 6. It has always been the message throughout the entire bible.

A Judgment of Fire is coming. When the Son of Man comes again to judge the world it will be like it was in the days of Noah. People will be marrying ungodly people with no thought of turning to God any time soon, focused on the pleasures of this life and suddenly the judgment will come and they will suffer eternal destruction.

Peter did not want people to talk about Nephilim fantasies when they read his letter but Peter wanted them to be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.

Christians are falling away by the millions. They have been for decades. Some are coming back, hearing the call to repent before they wake up in hell with eternal regret.

We don't have time to talk about angel human hybrid giant babies. It is a distraction from this message:...

be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.
God's word is now a fantasy???
 

Shepherd

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May 11, 2022
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God's word is now a fantasy???
He wasn't saying that the Word of God is a fantasy. From what I read he believes the Word. But the Bible speaks of people "wresting" the scriptures, which means to twist and pervert the true meaning. Some people do that and subsequently do pervert the true meaning into a fantasy.
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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God's word is now a fantasy???
He wasn't saying that the Word of God is a fantasy. From what I read he believes the Word. But the Bible speaks of people "wresting" the scriptures, which means to twist and pervert the true meaning. Some people do that and subsequently do pervert the true meaning into a fantasy.
Jude also said:

“In the end time there will be scoffers living according to their own ungodly desires.” 19These people create divisions and are worldly, not having the Spirit.

I really don't care if people want to believe that the sons of God were angels or not. The message of Jude was not focused on that. It would be a shame to miss everything Jude had to say because one was focusing on the brief reference to angels.

Jude and Peter have a powerful message to the saints to be on their guard against teachings that will lead them astray into worldliness and justifying sin rather than repenting of it and turning from it.

When we draw near to the Lord and obey the Spirit and separate ourselves from all manner of worldliness we will realize just how desensitized we were before.
 

DavidTree

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He wasn't saying that the Word of God is a fantasy. From what I read he believes the Word. But the Bible speaks of people "wresting" the scriptures, which means to twist and pervert the true meaning. Some people do that and subsequently do pervert the true meaning into a fantasy.
He indeed did call the word of God 'fantasy' = Post #203

He said: "Peter did not want people to talk about Nephilim fantasies..."
This comment is adding to God's word and, in sin calling God's words "fantasy"

And this statement he made is 'mocking' the word of God =
"We don't have time to talk about angel human hybrid giant babies. It is a distraction from this message:.."

Ironically, this is what Jude warns us not to do.

Both yourself and Brother Amanuensis need to be humble before the Word with Holy fear so that you refrain from such sinful activity.

Now God knows our hearts and there is such a error that we have ALL have committed = willful ignorance.
So now is the time to go before our Great High Priest and seek His Blessing to enlarge your understanding.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a
shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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He indeed did call the word of God 'fantasy' = Post #203

He said: "Peter did not want people to talk about Nephilim fantasies..."
This comment is adding to God's word and, in sin calling God's words "fantasy"

And this statement he made is 'mocking' the word of God =
"We don't have time to talk about angel human hybrid giant babies. It is a distraction from this message:.."

Ironically, this is what Jude warns us not to do.

Both yourself and Brother Amanuensis need to be humble before the Word with Holy fear so that you refrain from such sinful activity.
That is all rather immature rhetoric that does nothing for promoting a proper exegesis of the text.
 

DavidTree

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That is all rather immature rhetoric that does nothing for promoting a proper exegesis of the text.
You are 100% CORRECT = calling God's words "fantasy" and mocking does absolutely NOTHING GOOD.

ALSO, i do have sincere LOVE of Christ in my heart for both of you and therefore i tell you the 100% Truth according to Scripture
When i know of it.
AND
i also receive your LOVE and fellowship in Christ = REJOICE = we are Brothers covered by HIS BLOOD
 

Amanuensis

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You are 100% CORRECT = calling God's words "fantasy" and mocking does absolutely NOTHING GOOD.

ALSO, i do have sincere LOVE of Christ in my heart for both of you and therefore i tell you the 100% Truth according to Scripture
When i know of it.
AND
i also receive your LOVE and fellowship in Christ = REJOICE = we are Brothers covered by HIS BLOOD
Yes, being kind and assuming the best about each other will help us stick to the task of explaining our reasons for our interpretations.

The issue is not whether you think you know your interpretation is the Word of God or not. Telling people how sure that we are about our interpretation does not help them know the correct interpretation of a scripture. We naturally think that cranking up the emotions convinces people but it does not convince the thinking man. He needs reasons. Reasons that are considered authoritative.
Thinks like context, original language meaning, other things that the author has said about it. etc...

I am not 100% sure I have these passages figured out. They are some of the least understood in the bible.

I remain humble and gather information. I can put things on a shelf until I have more information. I don't always need to commit to a view right away and I NEVER allow pressure or accusations of not believing the Word of God to pressure me into a view. That is just a sign that someone is not capable of supporting their position with exegesis and is usually because their position is wrong.

It is better to present reasons based on rules of interpretation. Keep an open mind to new information.

If you want to help someone know the truth of the Word of God as you claim that you do, you would need to explain the text and give reasons why it should be interpreted that way. If they don't see it, let it go. It is not you that they need to agree with, but God and he is able to show them as they keep an open mind. I don't want anyone to decide on an interpretation unless they can explain on their own why the text means that. It should not be because I said it did.

This particular topic is one that many avoid because they don't think there is going to be any profit from it.

Maybe this verse is appropriate for this conversation:
2 Tim 2:
23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

My reason for discussing it is that it is an opportunity for people to learn how to exegete the scriptures and use rules of hermeneutics to discover authorial intent. If one sticks to the rules of exegesis and hermeneutics and does not launch into personal attacks false accusations and emotional rhetoric.

Able to teach is a concise way of saying having the skills to lay out a reason of an interpretation based on the text.

I hope that all those who use CC will allow it to help them repent of flesh and sinful rhetoric and strife, venting, anger, rage, and learn to be kind and patient. Learn to communicate with politeness and be easy to be entreated. To learn how to give reasons and exegete scripture with a heart to identify authorial intent and never to argue or have the last word. All that one upping and striving, and desire to "destroy" the other persons points, is ungodly flesh and we must avoid it like we would any other sin.

I am going to order a couple of good commentaries on 2 Peter and Jude. Not to debate this topic but because I have become quite interested in these two books during this conversation. I look forward to the study. :)
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Yes, being kind and assuming the best about each other will help us stick to the task of explaining our reasons for our interpretations.

The issue is not whether you think you know your interpretation is the Word of God or not. Telling people how sure that we are about our interpretation does not help them know the correct interpretation of a scripture. We naturally think that cranking up the emotions convinces people but it does not convince the thinking man. He needs reasons. Reasons that are considered authoritative.
Thinks like context, original language meaning, other things that the author has said about it. etc...

I am not 100% sure I have these passages figured out. They are some of the least understood in the bible.

I remain humble and gather information. I can put things on a shelf until I have more information. I don't always need to commit to a view right away and I NEVER allow pressure or accusations of not believing the Word of God to pressure me into a view. That is just a sign that someone is not capable of supporting their position with exegesis and is usually because their position is wrong.

It is better to present reasons based on rules of interpretation. Keep an open mind to new information.

If you want to help someone know the truth of the Word of God as you claim that you do, you would need to explain the text and give reasons why it should be interpreted that way. If they don't see it, let it go. It is not you that they need to agree with, but God and he is able to show them as they keep an open mind. I don't want anyone to decide on an interpretation unless they can explain on their own why the text means that. It should not be because I said it did.

This particular topic is one that many avoid because they don't think there is going to be any profit from it.

Maybe this verse is appropriate for this conversation:
2 Tim 2:
23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

My reason for discussing it is that it is an opportunity for people to learn how to exegete the scriptures and use rules of hermeneutics to discover authorial intent. If one sticks to the rules of exegesis and hermeneutics and does not launch into personal attacks false accusations and emotional rhetoric.

Able to teach is a concise way of saying having the skills to lay out a reason of an interpretation based on the text.

I hope that all those who use CC will allow it to help them repent of flesh and sinful rhetoric and strife, venting, anger, rage, and learn to be kind and patient. Learn to communicate with politeness and be easy to be entreated. To learn how to give reasons and exegete scripture with a heart to identify authorial intent and never to argue or have the last word. All that one upping and striving, and desire to "destroy" the other persons points, is ungodly flesh and we must avoid it like we would any other sin.

I am going to order a couple of good commentaries on 2 Peter and Jude. Not to debate this topic but because I have become quite interested in these two books during this conversation. I look forward to the study. :)
Fleshly, sinful rhetoric is to call God's words "fantasy" and then mock/belittle what "is written" for our admonition.

The "thinking man" cannot know the things of God because it requires THREE elements.

A.) Submission/Surrender unto "It is written"
B.) The Holy Spirit
C.) Deuteronomy 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19

The Word of God is foolishness to the intellectual.

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."

A person can 'exegiasis' all day long, and still be clueless.

Submission, Worship and Faith is the only proper 'exegesis' approved by God.

35 Years ago i embraced God's Way of Understanding.
 

soberxp

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May 3, 2018
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Well, scripture is clear about giants existing after the flood. If not, then how do we reconcile Goliath being a descendant of Anak or of the Anakim. The Rephaim are also giants as well, but in Canaan. The sons of God generally refer to angelic beings in the OT, and these would be angels who did not keep their proper place to mate with the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:1-4 NKJV
1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The book of Enoch seems to have said that some repentant giants have not been wiped out by the Great Flood.
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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Fleshly, sinful rhetoric is to call God's words "fantasy" and then mock/belittle what "is written" for our admonition.

The "thinking man" cannot know the things of God because it requires THREE elements.

A.) Submission/Surrender unto "It is written"
B.) The Holy Spirit
C.) Deuteronomy 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19

The Word of God is foolishness to the intellectual.

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."

A person can 'exegiasis' all day long, and still be clueless.

Submission, Worship and Faith is the only proper 'exegesis' approved by God.

35 Years ago i embraced God's Way of Understanding.
I am glad that you love the Word. :)
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
127
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He indeed did call the word of God 'fantasy' = Post #203

He said: "Peter did not want people to talk about Nephilim fantasies..."
This comment is adding to God's word and, in sin calling God's words "fantasy"

And this statement he made is 'mocking' the word of God =
"We don't have time to talk about angel human hybrid giant babies. It is a distraction from this message:.."

Ironically, this is what Jude warns us not to do.

Both yourself and Brother Amanuensis need to be humble before the Word with Holy fear so that you refrain from such sinful activity.

Now God knows our hearts and there is such a error that we have ALL have committed = willful ignorance.
So now is the time to go before our Great High Priest and seek His Blessing to enlarge your understanding.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a
shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
Speaking for myself.: I believe that the nephilim were simply big tall fierce warriors for lack of a better description. They were not The offspring of angels meeting with women LOL that interpretation is a fantasy because that belief is not in accordance with what the word of God says somebody has twisted the word of God to make the angel hybrid theory I will say that again it is a fantasy. But just to clarify because you don't seem to be getting it..... it is your belief that is a fantasy the word of God is not.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Speaking for myself.: I believe that the nephilim were simply big tall fierce warriors for lack of a better description. They were not The offspring of angels meeting with women LOL that interpretation is a fantasy because that belief is not in accordance with what the word of God says somebody has twisted the word of God to make the angel hybrid theory I will say that again it is a fantasy. But just to clarify because you don't seem to be getting it..... it is your belief that is a fantasy the word of God is not.
NO - you own your words and will answer for everyone (all of us).

You have declared God's words a : "lol", "fantasy" and "man's belief"

Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose.
So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—
and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men
.
And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” - Genesis ch6

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain,
but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

You own your words.................right now you have time to repent = change your mind to have it LINE UP with God's words.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
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The angel-human hybrid interpretation is the fantasy, the true interpretation of the passage is NOT fantasy
 

Shepherd

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May 11, 2022
127
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NO - you own your words and will answer for everyone (all of us).

You have declared God's words a : "lol", "fantasy" and "man's belief"

Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose.
So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—
and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men
.
And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” - Genesis ch6

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain,
but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

You own your words.................right now you have time to repent = change your mind to have it LINE UP with God's words.
At least you have a good idea of what repentance means. I'm going to leave it with you bro LOL. God bless.
 

DavidTree

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At least you have a good idea of what repentance means. I'm going to leave it with you bro LOL. God bless.
Amen - and may the LORD Jesus Christ bless our hearts in Him to grow stronger in His Love that we may also love each other just as HE loves us.
 

Diakonos

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Daniel 10:10-21 are combatting angels / good vs evil

Eph 6:10-13 "the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." = fallen angels

1 Peter 5:8 = the devil = this includes the fallen angels under his authority
How do you know that?

btw, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong. I'm just looking for Biblical justification that they are fallen angels.
 

Diakonos

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Yes, but the word Tartarus has Greek mythology origins. We have to understand why Peter used that word. We know Peter was not supporting Greek Mythology. He was communicating using something they were familiar with.

Remember when Jesus talked about the Pharisees making converts twofold the child of hell than they were?

Referring to hell as the dominion of demons and satan is a common way of speaking about the realm which they are bound too without meaning to say that they are already suffering their eternal judgment.

I do see a connection with hell and satan and demons. I don't now exactly how it all works but that hell is part of their kingdom seems to be something understood even at the time of Christ. There were plenty of writings about there being portals to hell where demons could come and go. Even the valley of Himnon or Gehenna was supposed to have one of these portals. Not that I believe it did but this kind of conversation went on all the time and was written about. So for Peter to use a Greek Mythology word suggest that he is talking about their kingdom and domain. Actually using this word supports the idea of a realm, the realm understood in Greek mythology a vague sort of underworld realm but these demons were able to come from there and influence people.
To establish common ground...Do you believe that Sheol is a spiritual realm that happens to also be restricted to a geographical location (in the lower parts of the earth)?