Were the apostles BIBLE THUMPING CHRISTIANS?

[cookie39]

The Old testament...... JESUS CHRIST SAID SO MANY TIMES HOW THE WORD WAS WRITTEN, NO MATTER WHAT MAN CALL IT--- IT IS A WRITTEN WORD... THAT WAS SPOKEN OF BY GOD.... SO STEPHEN QUOTED THE WORD BEFORE THOSE WHO QUESTION HIM ABOUT FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS........... SAPPIRAH AND AQUALIA SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES DAILY TO SEE WHAT THE DISCIPLES WAS TEACHING WAS TRUE...


Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the SCRIPTURES, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 26:54
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Matthew 26:56
But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mark 12:24
And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 14:49
I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:32
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


DO YOU NEED FOR ME TO POST EVERY VERSE IN THE BIBLE..... OR IS THIS ENOUGH THAT YOU MAY SEE THAT THE APOSTLES WERE BIBLE THUMPING WORD PREACHING MINISTERS OF THE MOST HIGH............ EVEN JESUS SAID THE WERE """""" WRITTEN OF ME""""" NOT JUST TOLD... GOD KNOWS BETTER THAN THAT SHOULD GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HIS WISDOM.... HE KNOWS THAT MAN WOULD TWIST AND ADD AND TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT HE HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING OF MANKIND...... HE SAID HE WILL PRESERVE HIS WORD AND THAT IS JUST WHAT HE HAS DONE..... PRAISE AND GLORY BE TO GOD FOR HIS LIVING AND HOLY WORD......

 

[Shilo]

The Masoretic text was put together by the Masoretes rabbis. They were Hebrews and preserved the hidden things you only see when you start looking into it. They used Hebrew writings and put them together. The Masoretic text was in line with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint was very close. So both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint show God was protecting his word. There are many translations out there and whatever one you use is good as long as you read it. Then to get a better understanding try others. This was about what the disciples read and that was the Hebrew Bible ( old testament).
And when he had given him permission, Paul, standing on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great hush, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying Act 21:40. Hebrew was not a dead language.
You have the dead sea scrolls and others that are older then the Septuagint. The Septuagint was made from hebrew text so then the Hebrew is older. Not sure what you are trying to say. The Greek came before the Hebrew? We all not this is not true.
The basis for learning is to study, ask questions and sit under a Godly teacher.

 

[SantoSubito]

And when he had given him permission, Paul, standing on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great hush, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying Act 21:40. Hebrew was not a dead language.

And "in the Hebrew language" means Aramaic. It is better translated as "In the language of the Hebrews" (which at the time was Aramaic). When you look at the definition for the Greek words used for "Hebrew" in strongs it says:

1) Hebrew, the Hebrew language, not that however in which the OT
was written but the Chaldee, which at the time of Jesus and
the apostles had long superseded it in Palestine

In other words Aramaic. It is established fact that Hebrew was a dead language at the time and was only revived recently.

You have the dead sea scrolls and others that are older then the Septuagint. The Septuagint was made from hebrew text so then the Hebrew is older. Not sure what you are trying to say. The Greek came before the Hebrew? We all not this is not true.

Indeed the LXX was made from the Hebrew texts, Hebrew texts that no longer exist. Which is why the LXX is still used to translate modern Bibles, along with the Vulgate. The Bible you have in your hands right now is not translated 100% from the Hebrew, translators often prefer the readings of the Vulgate and LXX to those found in the Masoretic text.

 

[Shilo]

Scholars have debated this issue of what was spoken and written in Jesus time. From what I understand both the Hebrew and Aramaic were spoken.
Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion romans 14:1
This does not deal with salvation so it is only a difference of opinion. We are so removed from the time let us move on to what is more important.

 

[SantoSubito]

Scholars have debated this issue of what was spoken and written in Jesus time. From what I understand both the Hebrew and Aramaic were spoken.
Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion romans 14:1
This does not deal with salvation so it is only a difference of opinion. We are so removed from the time let us move on to what is more important.

There really is no debate about it, Hebrew at the time was as dead as Latin is today. Tomb inscriptions from Jesus' time are all in Aramaic, government communications and documents from the same period are in Greek or Aramaic. The OT was even translated into Aramaic during Jesus' life because so many Jews couldn't understand Hebrew. Quite a few people at the time were bi-lingual, but they learned Greek not Hebrew.

When Pilate had the sign affixed on top of the cross in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew (same word used as in Acts 21, so here we have Aramaic). Hebrew was really only used by Jewish separatists (i.e. Qumran community) and the Jewish rabbis for theological discourse amongst themselves (much how Latin is still used today in the RCC). Heck in some regions of Judaea Greek was the everyday language, and when Jesus cried out on the cross he cried out in Aramaic

Simply put Hebrew died because it's use as an everyday language diminished when the Jews were conquered by the Persians (who spoke Aramaic, as did all the regions around Judaea), Alexander the Great (who spread Greek there), and Rome (who's lingua franca of the Empire was Greek). It was just more advantageous for your average Jew to speak Aramaic or Greek (or both) and so Hebrew just slowly died.

It's similar to how German died out as our first language in my family. My Great-grandparents spoke German as their first language and taught it to their children, my grandparents spoke German but didn't use it everyday because it wasn't that useful in an English speaking country, since they didn't speak German in the home my mother never learned German, and since she never learned it it was never passed on to me. Think of that process but on a much larger scale.

 

[Shilo]

When Pilate had the sign affixed on top of the cross in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew (same word used as in Acts 21, so here we have Aramaic). Hebrew was really only used by Jewish separatists (i.e. Qumran community) and the Jewish rabbis for theological discourse amongst themselves (much how Latin is still used today in the RCC). Heck in some regions of Judaea Greek was the everyday language, and when Jesus cried out on the cross he cried out in Aramaic quote

So then we agree both were spoken, but the Spiritual teachings were done in Hebrew. So they had the old testamant in Hebrew and it is what teaching was done from. This is in your own words. So just let it go.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Yep, out of 2.2 billion Christians worldwide there are about 500 million Protestants which leaves about 1.7 billion Christians that accept the deuterocanonical books. Sometimes people forget that the worlds religious makeup does not look like America's

and there are almost 5 billion non christians worldwide...sometimes people forget that religious truth is not decided by majority rule...

 

[iamsoandso]

no they were not,see luke 9;3,,,,,,,,,matt. 10;10,,,,,,,,mark 6;8,,,,,,,,,,,,,but,,,,,the holy spirit is and he was sent to them and "all of the things the lord spoke"they are that wich he heard of the father",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and as he told you in john 14; 26 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the comforter 'he will bring into remembrance,,,,,,," so ,,,,,,,,,,,,,'bible thumper's",,,,,they were looking up what they said they heard from the "holy spirit",,,,,,,,,

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Hi All,

I am very new to this site but love this topic! Did Peter and the boys (DISCIPLES) walk around with KJV's, Amplified's, NIV's and any of the other 12 billion different versions currently in circulation?

As you can tell I am a little sarcastic so use your imagination, for example I know the KJV was actually completed in 1611.

My point is this:

a) What did the disciples read?

b) The first followers (after the disciples) read what?

c) What was the basis for their learning?

These are the types of questions I would like everyone to explore.

P.S.- BE NICE TO EACHOTHER PLEASE!

Blessings

the apostles probably didn't actually 'read' much of the bible...their main source of scriptural knowledge was probably from hearing it in the temple and the synagogues...

in the temple the scriptures would have been read in hebrew...in the synagogues the readings would have been in hebrew followed by a paraphrase or commentary from the reader in aramaic or greek...

in synagogues outside of judea where there were even fewer hebrew speakers the greek septuagint would probably have been used more often

at some point the early christians adopted the septuagint almost exclusively... later the same thing happened with latin translations in the west...especially the vulgate... in some of the more distant communities they began to use bible translations in syriac and ethiopic and coptic and slavonic and gothic...

also selections from the new testament epistles were read in the churches every sunday...

most jewish men received at least some kind of basic religious instruction as children... jewish women were usually uneducated...but they did hear teaching from qualified rabbis every sabbath...we can assume many of them paid close enough attention that their knowledge was roughly on the same level as the average man...

 

[dbj72]

This is what I understand from what I have learned.

As someone said before their were hebrews who did read Hebraic texts but they also read Greek and Aramaic language was very dominate.

As far as I can tell from the NT the Apostles and early followers still went to synagouge on the Shabbat and then met up the next day to spend time in the word.

It seems like God always had his Remnant in Israel, so I assume that they tried to perserve the word of God as best as possible.

Latin is not dead I know some people who have gone to college to learn how to speak it.

In short it seems to me that the most important thing is REVELATION because if you dont have that you will not understand the word, but you also have to study the word of God in full, something which I have found difficult at times.

Shalom/Blessings

 

[JaumeJ]

The Holy Spirit taught the Apostles, however the reference used by them in print was the Tanach, as it is the foundation of the Gospels, the Epistles and Revelation. After all, Jesus came to us as a Jew, and His own mother, family and aquaintances called Him Yeshua.................

 

[SantoSubito]

So then we agree both were spoken, but the Spiritual teachings were done in Hebrew. So they had the old testamant in Hebrew and it is what teaching was done from. This is in your own words. So just let it go.

And that doesn't make the language any less dead. Your average Jew didn't know Hebrew, and only the Jewish equivalent of clergy and aristocrats were fluent in Hebrew (Just like Latin in the middle ages).

Latin is not dead I know some people who have gone to college to learn how to speak it.

That's not what determines whether a language is dead or not. A language effectively dies when it has no native speakers and the culture to which it was attached is extinct. I've been schooled in Latin, but there are no longer Romans around that speak it everyday as part of their culture, therefore it is dead.

and there are almost 5 billion non christians worldwide...sometimes people forget that religious truth is not decided by majority rule...

Never said it did, that was in response to what shilo said: "are not excepted by most Christians". I simply showed that Protestants are in the minority among Christians in there rejection of the Deuterocanonical books.

 

[dbj72]

sorry I thought when something was dead it was no more and what I am saying is that there is always a remnant with God

 

[dajones1979]

The Old testament...... JESUS CHRIST SAID SO MANY TIMES HOW THE WORD WAS WRITTEN, NO MATTER WHAT MAN CALL IT--- IT IS A WRITTEN WORD... THAT WAS SPOKEN OF BY GOD.... SO STEPHEN QUOTED THE WORD BEFORE THOSE WHO QUESTION HIM ABOUT FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS........... SAPPIRAH AND AQUALIA SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES DAILY TO SEE WHAT THE DISCIPLES WAS TEACHING WAS TRUE...


Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the SCRIPTURES, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 26:54
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Matthew 26:56
But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mark 12:24
And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 14:49
I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:32
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


DO YOU NEED FOR ME TO POST EVERY VERSE IN THE BIBLE..... OR IS THIS ENOUGH THAT YOU MAY SEE THAT THE APOSTLES WERE BIBLE THUMPING WORD PREACHING MINISTERS OF THE MOST HIGH............ EVEN JESUS SAID THE WERE """""" WRITTEN OF ME""""" NOT JUST TOLD... GOD KNOWS BETTER THAN THAT SHOULD GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HIS WISDOM.... HE KNOWS THAT MAN WOULD TWIST AND ADD AND TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT HE HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING OF MANKIND...... HE SAID HE WILL PRESERVE HIS WORD AND THAT IS JUST WHAT HE HAS DONE..... PRAISE AND GLORY BE TO GOD FOR HIS LIVING AND HOLY WORD......

So, which Bible?

As hard as it is for most christians, Yeshua did not have a "NEW TESTAMENT" bible. The opportunity He had to set people straight came from "Moses, and then he talked about what all the prophets had said about Him." (Genesis to Malachi)

The disciples DID NOT HAVE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLES and the teachings that all of the people above received their LIGHT from was Moses to the Prophets (Genesis to Malachi)

He was NOT Bible thumping, but light bringing. The 1st words in scripture spoken by my Almighty God was "LET THERE BE LIGHT" - Wow!

Why do Christians not follow what Yeshua and the disciples?

Why do Christians prefer to follow what Constantine and his buddies put together in what was the equivalent of a Roman G8 summit!?

 

[dajones1979]

The Masoretic text was put together by the Masoretes rabbis. They were Hebrews and preserved the hidden things you only see when you start looking into it. They used Hebrew writings and put them together. The Masoretic text was in line with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint was very close. So both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint show God was protecting his word. There are many translations out there and whatever one you use is good as long as you read it. Then to get a better understanding try others. This was about what the disciples read and that was the Hebrew Bible ( old testament).
And when he had given him permission, Paul, standing on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great hush, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying Act 21:40. Hebrew was not a dead language.
You have the dead sea scrolls and others that are older then the Septuagint. The Septuagint was made from hebrew text so then the Hebrew is older. Not sure what you are trying to say. The Greek came before the Hebrew? We all not this is not true.
The basis for learning is to study, ask questions and sit under a Godly teacher.

AMEN AMEN AND AAAAAAMEN!

 

[SantoSubito]

So, which Bible?

As hard as it is for most christians, Yeshua did not have a "NEW TESTAMENT" bible. The opportunity He had to set people straight came from "Moses, and then he talked about what all the prophets had said about Him." (Genesis to Malachi)

The disciples DID NOT HAVE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLES and the teachings that all of the people above received their LIGHT from was Moses to the Prophets (Genesis to Malachi)

He was NOT Bible thumping, but light bringing. The 1st words in scripture spoken by my Almighty God was "LET THERE BE LIGHT" - Wow!

Why do Christians not follow what Yeshua and the disciples?

Why do Christians prefer to follow what Constantine and his buddies put together in what was the equivalent of a Roman G8 summit!?

Your not a non-trinitarian by chance are you?

 

[dajones1979]

Your not a non-trinitarian by chance are you?

LOL - The fascination with pigeon holing people is amazing!?

Does my answering this question lead this thread to a theological debate? I am hesitant to reply if it does...

If I say yes, then one could argue my non-trinitarian views inform my opinion! If I say no, then one could argue that my trinitiarian views inform my opinion!

Spirit is strength and truth - Doctrine is flesh! That's a DOCTRINAL QUESTION! Not interested in those to be frank!

 

[SantoSubito]

LOL - The fascination with pigeon holing people is amazing!?

Does my answering this question lead this thread to a theological debate? I am hesitant to reply if it does...

If I say yes, then one could argue my non-trinitarian views inform my opinion! If I say no, then one could argue that my trinitiarian views inform my opinion!

Spirit is strength and truth - Doctrine is flesh! That's a DOCTRINAL QUESTION! Not interested in those to be frank!

Aah, but Doctrine and Dogma relate truth, and are therefore of the Spirit, as are all things that relate spiritual truth. But I asked the question because it seems you reject the First Council of Nicaea, and the only people I've met that reject that Council are non-trinitarians.

 

[dajones1979]

Aah, but Doctrine and Dogma relate truth, and are therefore of the Spirit, as are all things that relate spiritual truth. But I asked the question because it seems you reject the First Council of Nicaea, and the only people I've met that reject that Council are non-trinitarians.

An interesting response!

Doctrine/dogma, almost philosophical, but yet again, only a passing interest. Not enough to warrant a response.

1st Council of Nicaea on the other hand very interesting.

We see in part and one day will see in full - FACT. Therefore all that we do has the possibility of being flawed. The 1st council in my humble opinion falls under this category - namely of being flawed.

This is how I reason it - Biblically; and let's use the first covenant (Old Covenant) scriptures for authority, the only councils undertaken illustrate Almighty God himself presiding over various situations. Now, because he is ALL TRUTH and does not see in part, but in full, the outcomes are therefore TRUTH.

1st Council was convened for political reasons, to resolve religious questions with a group of religious people and lest I forget the politicians attending. Hence the outcome in my eyes were questionable to say the least!

As we know if you want to get to the truth, always invite a politician!

Enoch, Methuselah, Jacob, Abraham, David to name a few were men of FAITH, not religion.

 

[dbj72]

Aah, but Doctrine and Dogma relate truth, and are therefore of the Spirit, as are all things that relate spiritual truth. But I asked the question because it seems you reject the First Council of Nicaea, and the only people I've met that reject that Council are non-trinitarians.

Sorry but that council was a joke