What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

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Aug 20, 2021
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Look. My answer was to your statement below where you claimed there was no reference to eternal burning
in scripture. I gave you one scripture reference. There are more.
Laura798 it a sign of one that mentally ill,,,If you said it was raining cats and dogs they would say that's not possible.Or she,, or he is playing dumb.,,,,,,One more thing it is listed in the bible without understanding is listed as sin of the flesh.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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I believe in eternal torment, as probably most of us do here. But this guy lays out a pretty good argument for annihilation.

This is an interesting concept. I've run across a number of people - Christians included - in the not too distant past who have voiced the desire to just "cease to exist". They don't want hell, but they don't want heaven either. They just want to cease existing. What you are proposing here is that this is possible.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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NO, I am not, you are making an assertion because you are not seeing what we have said.

No one has suggested nor said we deny that the payment of Christ on the cross was without effect. You have made a false accusation.
Okay, so now you are saying CS Uno (excuse the I earlier) that you do in fact believe that the "punishment for sin is DEATH" and not eternal torment? I guess I missed that--my apologies.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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I believe only the righteous receive eternal life, no exceptions. So the unrighteous can't have eternal life in hell, then. "Eternal punishment" I interpret to mean death since death is permanent and a punishment. The Bible confirms the unrighteous are put to death.

I believe in keeping my faith consistent as much as possible. Therefore, I can only conclude Jesus is making a reference to the lake of fire where unrighteous will receive death which is an eternal punishment.

Revelation 21:8
8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

So you are seeing that those who are condemned must cease to be entirely.

Otherwise they would still be spiritually alive?
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell'. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit outside on the curb?

Too, what is hell? Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, God claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is. Are those really 2 different stories?

God also says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.

Now, the interesting thing is, that we don’t see the lake of fire (hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are de-created.

Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire?

Could it be that God lets those who loved this world more than Him, are given it in its natural state apart from Him?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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You said 'eternal burning' which is not in scripture. That would refer to an OBJECT which continues to burn eternally, in contrast to eternal FIRE, which common sense and science say that if a fire burns without being put out the thing burned is obliterated.

Matthew 25:41 speaks of “everlasting fire” for the wicked. Does it go out?
Yes. According to the Bible, it does. We must let the Bible explain itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 7), and that fire turned these ancient cities “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effect of the fire is everlasting, but not the burning itself.

Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will receive “everlasting punishment”?
Notice the word is punishment, not punishing. Punishing would be continuous, while punishment is one act. The punishment of the wicked is death, and this death is everlasting.

https://www.helltruth.com/q-a/id/1852/t/eternal-fire
Jesus said it was an everlasting fire your human reasoning doesn't take into account that the fire is eternal not because there is nothing to burn but because Jesus said it is.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
© Info
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
And as they go out, they will see
the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me.
For the worms that devour them will never die,
and the fire that burns them will never go out.
All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.

^ Similar imagery of the above passage (the only PG image I could find was of a smoldering forest.)

200w.gif
 
Aug 20, 2021
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Some have said that understanding of non-literal expressions, and in particular metaphors, can be impaired in people with mental illness; although it is not clear why. sin. Rom 1:31 without understanding
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell'. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit outside on the curb?

Too, what is hell? Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, God claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is. Are those really 2 different stories?

God also says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.

Now, the interesting thing is, that we don’t see the lake of fire (hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are de-created.

Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire?

Could it be that God lets those who loved this world more than Him, are given it in its natural state apart from Him?
Interesting thoughts JTB--I believe the judgment is first and then the re-creation--it all may be instantaneous--one scripture I quoted says the wicked will be destroyed by "the breath of his mouth and the glory of his appearing" The lake of fire is figurative of destruction since the angels and death and hell are 'thrown into it. In any case the angel did say it was the second DEATH. Again I'll say, it's about what a person would have to look forward to and not what they're escaping. Humans fear death more than anything.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Jesus said it was an everlasting fire your human reasoning doesn't take into account that the fire is eternal not because there is nothing to burn but because Jesus said it is.
o_O
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Okay, so now you are saying CS Uno (excuse the I earlier) that you do in fact believe that the "punishment for sin is DEATH" and not eternal torment? I guess I missed that--my apologies.
No, what I believe the word of God says is the Physical body dies once because of sin. Yet that death of the body is the final end of the person. There is more than one type of death in the word of God in addition to dying physically.


1.

Physical Death
We suffer this death because we are made of dust, just like our progenitor Adam who "was of the earth, made of dust" (1Corinthians 15:47).

God said to Adam, "You will return to the ground, because from it you were taken, for you are dust, and to dust you shall return" (Genesis 3:19).


Eternal Death


In a vision, John saw portrayed the judgment day of mankind before the saints enter the new world. Both wicked and righteous were resurrected and judged. Anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into a lake of fire. "This is the second death" (Revelation 20:12-15).

Jesus had earlier said that those who overcome the tribulations of the Christian way, "will not be hurt at all by the second death" (Revelation 2:11). This second death is the opposite of eternal life (Matthew 25:41,46). We usually call it Hell.


Death In Sin
Paul says, "I was once alive... then sin sprang to life, and I died" (Romans 7:9).

When Paul says, "I died" he was in neither grave nor hell —he had died neither physical nor eternal death. But he had died a death of some kind because he said, "I died."

Paul had earlier written of this death: "Through Adam sin entered the world, and through sin, death passed to all men because all sinned" (Romans 5:12). It is a timeless principle that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
God says to all, just as he said to Adam, "In the day you sin, you shall die" (Genesis 2:17). Thus you may be "dead in your trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1).

Adam was not told, "If you sin, you will die someday," but rather, "In the day that you sin you will surely die." The day one sins, one dies, being "alienated from the life of God" (Ephesians 4:18).

Death life and sin
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Some have said that understanding of non-literal expressions, and in particular metaphors, can be impaired in people with mental illness; although it is not clear why. sin. Rom 1:31 without understanding
Cognitive Dissonance -
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes feelings of unease or discomfort.


This inconsistency between what people believe and how they behave motivates people to engage in actions that will help minimize feelings of discomfort. People attempt to relieve this tension in different ways, such as by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding new information.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,540
2,990
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Cognitive Dissonance -
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes feelings of unease or discomfort.


This inconsistency between what people believe and how they behave motivates people to engage in actions that will help minimize feelings of discomfort. People attempt to relieve this tension in different ways, such as by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding new information.
that sounds like a liberal snowflake when hearing there are only two genders
 
Aug 20, 2021
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If you don't agree with what scriptures say that's okay. Be honest with God.i have said scripture say nothing of itself and that's true but some things seem obvious.Don't rationalize forever or you will have to stay here.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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You said 'eternal burning' which is not in scripture.

It's a way I used to describe something. My own words to explain scripture which I backed up with an example.
It's called discussion. I am not linking to someone else's external teaching as you are doing.
You are being needlesy meticulous.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Hmm? Again, Jesus only spoke to the people in parables, using FIGURATIVE language. Later in that same story Jesus says they go to 'eternal punishment' in other parables he says, "“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."--Luke 13:28 and in Matthew 18:12 it says, "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

So the punishment in addition to being described as 'eternal fire' is also described as being 'thrown out' and 'thrown out into darkness' --being thrown out into outer darkness is not the same thing as burning eternally, therefore we need to look at plain scripture such as John 3:16 that says people PERISH and Romans that says "the wages of sin is DEATH." Roman's is replete with passages that DEATH is the punishment for sin--please read for yourself and refuse to support this 'doctrine of demons.'
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
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Cognitive Dissonance -
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes feelings of unease or discomfort.


This inconsistency between what people believe and how they behave motivates people to engage in actions that will help minimize feelings of discomfort. People attempt to relieve this tension in different ways, such as by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding new information.
So they who ever they be? might just be afraid:( and or mad:mad: at god deep down.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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It's a way I used to describe something. My own words to explain scripture which I backed up with an example.
It's called discussion. I am not linking to someone else's external teaching as you are doing.
You are being needlesy meticulous.
just all is with in, heaven and hell.Nothing out there.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,710
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It's a way I used to describe something. My own words to explain scripture which I backed up with an example.
It's called discussion. I am not linking to someone else's external teaching as you are doing.
You are being needlesy meticulous.
The link is simple and clear--I seem to have to be meticulous--no one seems to want to investigate the truth for themselves. It's like the way they capture a monkey is to put a fruit into a gourd--the monkey refuses to let go of the fruit, therefore is captured. In the same way you all refuse to let go of this false doctrine of demons, even though it makes God out to be Evil.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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that sounds like a liberal snowflake when hearing there are only two genders
Indeed.

So they who ever they be? might just be afraid:( and or mad:mad: at god deep down.
All possible.

-----

We all honestly do it to some extent depending on the topic. It's one of those situations where outside pressure has the inverse effect.