what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick

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KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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Thanks for the comments and encouragement.

The thing is, if genuine prophesying is going on, and someone asks someone else if they have a prophecy for them or to pray and ask God.... if God does not want to say anything, He won't. The operation of the genuine gift depends on the Spirit to give prophetic words. The person they asked can pray or encourage from scripture.

If there is a line of people wanting prophecies and it's false, they could cold read or say something generic or some junk that pops into their head. That sort of thing is dangerous, and that is why there is an advantage to prophecies, even personal prophecies, being given in the assembly, and the assembly actually applying 'let the other judge'. I don't think the Pentecostal practice of it being an individual thing in your own heart... if there is even a conscious attempt at that in many churches that still allow prophesying from the congregation... is really enough. Of course, Pentecostals like Protestants and Roman Catholics in general, kind of have this idea that they shouldn't speak unless they are clergy or clergy authorizes it, with Pentecostals having an exception for tongues and interpretation and prophecy.
A word of advice for the last half of the bigger paragraph... Speak only of the doctrine you wish to correct, without suggesting the entire church grouping holds that particular doctrine.

"if God does not want to say anything, He won't" <-- spot on. Correct and often overlooked. In TRUE prophetic situations GOD, not the prophesing individual, is the one who chooses how and IF to answer the questioner. And he's not afraid to step on toes (so to speak).

Wanted to fellowship more, but need rest.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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I never take the bait when somebody calls themself "Apostle" and offers "deliverance". They immediately get the door slammed in their face.
They come to your door? Is this the church door during office hours?
 

presidente

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Come to the front is a work
From a physics perspective it is work. I don't see how it can fit 'the works of the law' category. I cannot say I have seen anyone say you get salvation from coming to the front.

I did preach at a Baptist church once as a guest for a little while where the song leader made much of the padded box they had made, that they had an 'altar.' Altars were for incense or animal sacrifice in scripture, so it seemed odd to make so much of the recent prayer bench tradition to me.

.. you can make light of it if you like. People are told or it is implied that if they will come to the front they will get the help from God that they need. Their heart toward God is "You said come to the front, I've come to the front therefore You are obliged to give me what I want" ... some may get what they desire, most will not. The ones who do get help are hyped up and the most who do not are hushed up.
I've probably heard coming to the altar emphasized more than it should have been. I've never heard the idea that coming to the front obligates God to do something in a church that had 'altar calls'.

Prophecy and healing are Body works, the right place for ministry is in the assembly where there are no white suited super stars.
Some of the churches that have an 'altar call' for prayer about whatever needs people may have also have members of the body praying, not just the pastor. And some are more formal about it with 'altar counselor ministry' and such.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Come to the front is a work .. you can make light of it if you like. People are told or it is implied that if they will come to the front they will get the help from God that they need. Their heart toward God is "You said come to the front, I've come to the front therefore You are obliged to give me what I want" ... some may get what they desire, most will not. The ones who do get help are hyped up and the most who do not are hushed up.

Prophecy and healing are Body works, the right place for ministry is in the assembly where there are no white suited super stars.
What is wrong and why these things [personal ministry] is neither the prayer or the prophesying.

What is wrong [and unbiblical] is the lining up for it.
yes. many people came to Jesus for one reason or another and in some cases Jesus went to the one person

the entire movement towards prophetic hype began with the desire to see prophecy working through people and that desire is based on a misunderstanding of I Corinthians 14:1

1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit.…

when we back up to I Corinthians 13 though, we find the following instruction regarding the gift itself

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. I Corinthians 13:2

however, going back to I Corinthians 14 again, it also puts love first. EARNESTLY PURSUE LOVE. so while so many value the gifts and desire to have them, I would attest it is not love to misuse the gifts, as is done so often and basically make the gift the object with people pursuing the so called gifted person INSTEAD of the One who gives the gifts

this has been my contention from the beginning and will continue to be so. people will claim they are led by the Holy Spirit and come up with all kinds of nonsense...such as the 'apostle' Kate that CS1 brought to our attention

I do not see any defense of the practice of lining up to 'hear' from God. it is not in scripture.

there is also a problem with too many claiming the gift of prophecy is in use without a proper understanding of just what that gift accomplishes. we should also pay attention to what the gift of a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE is and in what manner WISDOM has been ignored so that many would reject it, reject discernment and come to the wrong conclusion that if it happens in a church or within a body of believers it must be sacrosanct
 

presidente

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What is wrong and why these things [personal ministry] is neither the prayer or the prophesying.

What is wrong [and unbiblical] is the lining up for it.
Why are lines wrong? Is a big throng of people better, with no line? I've been in a country where that is the way groups walk through malls like that, really slow. I prefer to tendency to line up a bit.

When people were laying their goods down at the apostles feet, might there not have been a line? There could have just been a big crowd of people trying to climb over each other. What about when Jesus healed? It could have gone either way? Or Peter? If the apostles wanted to lay hands on people after they were baptized in water, couldn't this have been done in a line instead of in a big crowd. If it were would that have been 'wrong.'

There are a lot of things done at church that are not specifically in the Bible. I see shaking hands. I even seen pews, a pulpit, a pastor preaching one sermon. I see the early church met in homes, and members of the congregation would teach, share revelations, etc. in one meeting. Since there is some scripture that doesn't fit with the pulpit-one-sermon tradition, I am more concerned with these issues than something neutral like standing in a line.

Prayer is not wrong. Prophecy is not wrong. The issue with prophesying and order that we should be concerned with is if it follows the commands in I Corinthians 14 for church meetings. Having one person do it all in a line may be an issue as far as that is concerned. Churches that forbid prophesying are not following 'Let the prophets speak....for ye may all prophesy one by one...."
 

Evmur

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Why are lines wrong? Is a big throng of people better, with no line? I've been in a country where that is the way groups walk through malls like that, really slow. I prefer to tendency to line up a bit.

When people were laying their goods down at the apostles feet, might there not have been a line? There could have just been a big crowd of people trying to climb over each other. What about when Jesus healed? It could have gone either way? Or Peter? If the apostles wanted to lay hands on people after they were baptized in water, couldn't this have been done in a line instead of in a big crowd. If it were would that have been 'wrong.'

There are a lot of things done at church that are not specifically in the Bible. I see shaking hands. I even seen pews, a pulpit, a pastor preaching one sermon. I see the early church met in homes, and members of the congregation would teach, share revelations, etc. in one meeting. Since there is some scripture that doesn't fit with the pulpit-one-sermon tradition, I am more concerned with these issues than something neutral like standing in a line.

Prayer is not wrong. Prophecy is not wrong. The issue with prophesying and order that we should be concerned with is if it follows the commands in I Corinthians 14 for church meetings. Having one person do it all in a line may be an issue as far as that is concerned. Churches that forbid prophesying are not following 'Let the prophets speak....for ye may all prophesy one by one...."
Jesus in ministering often asked for a demonstration of faith. That is very different from us making a sacrament or ordinance of one particular act of faith ...if you do such and such, God will do so and so.

It is the difference between us choosing who will be ministered to and God choosing who He will minister to.

Anybody can jump up and run to the front ... and the devil actually sends people along for the purpose. This certainly happens in salvation line ups and they are admitted into the church even though no work of grace has been done in their hearts.

The word is preached and the Holy Spirit starts to work ... that work is interrupted by an altar call.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
I remember what may have been the first time I ever went to the front for prayer. In a nutshell, God knocked my socks off! I met my Father!
Sometimes He does stuff with me at the front of a congregation and sometimes He does it when I'm alone. As far as I'm concerned, He can do it however He wants.
I believe there are apostles and prophets today, though I don't like the big show. But that's just me.
 

Evmur

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I remember what may have been the first time I ever went to the front for prayer. In a nutshell, God knocked my socks off! I met my Father!
Sometimes He does stuff with me at the front of a congregation and sometimes He does it when I'm alone. As far as I'm concerned, He can do it however He wants.
I believe there are apostles and prophets today, though I don't like the big show. But that's just me.
I do not deny that some are saved, ministered to in the altar call ... God is gracious.
 

presidente

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If we read II Corinthians 10, Paul and his coworkers had a measure of rule that extended to Corinth because they had gone as far as Corinth with the gospel of Christ. They wanted to extended their measure of rule and they wanted the Corinthians to help them do so by helping them reach further unreached areas.

This was in contrast to others who called themselves apostles who boasted about the Corinthians, but the Corinthians were not the fruit of their labor.

One aspect of NAR teaching, is that some of them, at least a decade or two ago when this was becoming a thing, were going around trying to talk pastors into coming under their wing. The idea was to put another layer of hierarchy on top of existing church structures.

Let's think about a lot of the existing evangelical church structures. In the Bible, the apostles appointed more than one elders from within the church/city they would minister. Paul described them as bishops/overseers. They were told to pastor the church/flock of God. Elders had to meet a number of lifestyle and spiritual maturity requirements. are to be 'apt to teach' in one set of requirements. The ones who rule well are worthy of double honor especially those who minister in preaching and teaching.

The Bible does not assign one elders to give a long talk every meeting. I Corinthians 14:26 says, 'Every one of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.' And what was Paul's commentary on that- 'Let all things be done unto edifying' followed by some other specific instructions.

Many modern evangelical churches already have highfaultin titles that aren't in the Bible like 'Senior Pastor', when Peter addresses elders and tells them to pastor, he calls the Lord the chief Pastor.

One of the NAR teachings is that there were certain men gifted by God as apostles, and that church leaders are supposed to come under their influence and let them pastor the pastors. The problem is, where does the Bible teach this? If someone is gifted as an apostle, let him go preach the Gospel. There are missionaries and church planters who believe God has called them, sent them, directed them (or whatever they call it) to do their work, and often it is confirmed through other saints, who go out and start new churches. Some take the Gospel to unreached groups of people and areas. It makes sense that they have a 'measure of rule,' help appoint elders, etc. Isn't that the sort of thing that Paul and his coworkers did?

The Twelve apostles helped get things going in Jerusalem, but stepped back from it. Eventually elders were handling donations and the Seven were feeding the widows. They let James and the elders handle the political situation with Paul. The Twelve ministered the word, prayed, and were witnesses of the resurrection. Paul also was very much involved in the formation of churches. Churches formed and were churches without elders. (That's possible if you have meetings like those described in I Corinthians 14:26 and Hebrews 10:24-25.) Then he and/or his coworkers appointed men from within the congregation to serve as elders.

Toward the end of Acts 14, after Paul and Barnabas had finished up their journey by going back and appointing elders in some of the churches, it says that had fulfilled the work. In chapter 13, we read that the Spirit had called them to the work. So if they had fulfilled it, we might take that as an implicit approval of how they handled the elder situation-- letting the churches exist first, then appointed elders from within the very congregations they would pastor, more than one of them. Paul later told the elders of the church in Ephesus that the Holy Ghost had made them overseers (bishops.)

I don't see a Biblical case for the senior pastor system and the emphasis on pulpit, pew, teaching being packaged into one-man 45 minute sermons. But does that mean that God's grace does not work in the lives of people in these churches to save their souls, to minister in spiritual gifts, or to bless others? I believe it does. And while I disagree with some of the NAR teachings about adding another layer of hierarchy to this questionable system and calling these church-network heads 'apostles', do I have any reason to think that God will not work in their lives to save their souls, minister in spiritual gifts, or bless others? No.

I also realize this is a wide and diverse movement, and a church might get some influence from it without NAR being a part of it's identity, so it is a complicated issue. I also do not know if there are still people going around trying to recruit for the NAR, or if that was a phase a few years back and they got their networks now.

There are also apostolic networks that think of apostles as 'mover and shaker' type Christians in different realms of society, business, education, etc.

Ephesians 4:11 is in the Bible. As Christians, we should accept that. But it does not seem much effort has been paid to actually studying out what an apostle is in scripture.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
I think there are bigger issues with the church than alter calls.
I don't currently have a church family, but I'd really like to be part of a small group, perhaps a house church.
 

presidente

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Jesus in ministering often asked for a demonstration of faith. That is very different from us making a sacrament or ordinance of one particular act of faith ...if you do such and such, God will do so and so.

It is the difference between us choosing who will be ministered to and God choosing who He will minister to.

Anybody can jump up and run to the front ... and the devil actually sends people along for the purpose. This certainly happens in salvation line ups and they are admitted into the church even though no work of grace has been done in their hearts.

The word is preached and the Holy Spirit starts to work ... that work is interrupted by an altar call.
A lot of the altar calls are that repeat-a-prayer in the seat thing.

What I see a lot of us is having people repeat a prayer without really telling them the Gospel. They might be asked to ask Jesus into their life without being told about Christ's death for their sins, or His rising from the dead, or being Lord. Sometimes this comes after a speech about how religion is supposed to be a bad thing. Using the front area (called an 'altar' for some odd historical reason) seems to be less the fad these days.

But in some of the churches I've gone to, the pastor and other believers can pray for Christians who come up to the front for prayer about a variety of issues.

Altar calls seem less common since the 1980's. I remember one altar call where the preacher wanted people to come forward for a certain number of issues-- kind of the rededicate your life, and also having difficulties. Then he got onto the topic of struggling with sins like homosexuality. That sure killed that altar call. If someone had one of those problems, they probably wouldn't want to go up for the struggle-with-homosexuality part in front of everyone. I think he nipped that altar call in the bud. This was several years ago, back when people did not want to be accused of being gay, before there were so many armies of brainwashed young people who were radical about faux social justice causes who think you are evil if you are not pro-LGBT.
 

CS1

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I do not deny that some are saved, ministered to in the altar call ... God is gracious.
when Billy Graham made a plea to people to come HE said " everyone Jesus called He called them Publicly. " If you deny me before men I will deny you before my father in Heaven".. "Come" 1981 in Spartan Stadium San Jose California at 15 years of age I came and was saved and never looked back. To God be the glory.
 

Evmur

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when Billy Graham made a plea to people to come HE said " everyone Jesus called He called them Publicly. " If you deny me before men I will deny you before my father in Heaven".. "Come" 1981 in Spartan Stadium San Jose California at 15 years of age I came and was saved and never looked back. To God be the glory.
Yes but beloved Billy was wrong on that point. Everyone whom Jesus called to discipleship He called publicly. Multitudes were saved. This is what means "many are called but few are chosen"

This has always been God's way and the way of the church down through the ages. Problem today is we have just anybody who can jump up and tuck the bible under his arm and declare himself a prophet.
 

CS1

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Yes but beloved Billy was wrong on that point. Everyone whom Jesus called to discipleship He called publicly. Multitudes were saved. This is what means "many are called but few are chosen"

This has always been God's way and the way of the church down through the ages. Problem today is we have just anybody who can jump up and tuck the bible under his arm and declare himself a prophet.
amen,
and many were saved by the Lord Through Billy Graham as I am one of many :) the understanding that Jesus did not only call people publicly but he called to do and learn of Him also. Jesus has to call you, save you before He can disciple you :)
 

presidente

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Yes but beloved Billy was wrong on that point. Everyone whom Jesus called to discipleship He called publicly. Multitudes were saved. This is what means "many are called but few are chosen"

This has always been God's way and the way of the church down through the ages. Problem today is we have just anybody who can jump up and tuck the bible under his arm and declare himself a prophet.
How many people were with the Ethiopian eunuch when he believed and was baptized? Was it enough to be 'public'? What about the jailor and his household? Was that enough people to be 'public.'

The verse about confessing or denying Christ before men does not say it is specifically for a moment of first coming to faith, a public profession of faith, etc. That is something we Christians should keep in mind in our daily lives as we go forward in our faith, that we confess and do not deny the Lord. In the first few centuries of Christianity, they probably thought of that verse more in terms of being brought before persecuting Roman officials. You do not have to confess your faith before 10,000 people in a stadium to be saved.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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How many people were with the Ethiopian eunuch when he believed and was baptized? Was it enough to be 'public'? What about the jailor and his household? Was that enough people to be 'public.'

The verse about confessing or denying Christ before men does not say it is specifically for a moment of first coming to faith, a public profession of faith, etc. That is something we Christians should keep in mind in our daily lives as we go forward in our faith, that we confess and do not deny the Lord. In the first few centuries of Christianity, they probably thought of that verse more in terms of being brought before persecuting Roman officials. You do not have to confess your faith before 10,000 people in a stadium to be saved.
You don't need a crowd at all. Paul and Silas baptized the jailor and his family in the middle of the night. Baptism is a witness indeed per 1 John 5:8.

Onlookers are optional.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Dec 4, 2021
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If we would all go back to the words of Jesus who has the RIGHT spirit and take them into our souls and compare our thinking to his....you will find that our thinking is contrary to the spirit of God the truth of God the truth and right and Holy spirit a Christian should possess. Jesus came to fulfill and give you the understanding. if we will seek the understanding and read his words and if you don’t know what he means ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it and it will be revealed. Have you asked God, the Holy Spirit to reveal if this woman is a true or false profit/Apostle because Jesus warned us that there would be so many false prophets he said to beware of them! why don’t we listen to our father? we listen to man!! we must listen to the spirit of God that is the spirit that will lead us into truth will keep us in the right ways of God and keep our soul protected from the devil and from deception. Jesus spoke of a Broadway that leads to destruction and the narrow way where Jesus is the Good Shepard at that narrow gate The wolf is the devil who is trying to steal us the sheep into deception! go by the narrow gate where Jesus is, you can trust that way!! know his words!! don’t just believe everything that looks godly, if the words they speak don’t sound like The words of Jesus spirit then most likely they’re not in the spirit of God they don’t have the Holy Spirit and you will be following a demon spirit. If you don’t have the gift of discerning of spirits you must ask God otherwise if you have that gift God will use it and show you!! that’s the point of the gift he will show you who is of him who is not! It’s better to be safe with our Shepard Jesus until we learn the difference and can’t be fooled. We have to grow up spiritually from a child to a mature person in Christ this takes time just always make sure you’re safe and on the straight and narrow path. Amen! With Love! 🙏🏼❤️