What do bears mean in the bible?

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Feb 9, 2010
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#41
God gives us visions but will give you the interpretation of it for what good is the vision without the interpretation if you do not understand it.

God also gives people instructions in dreams.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions(Joel 2:28).

I do not know the vision for a certainty but it could mean that the power of the United States will fail shortly and give way to the upcoming European Union who will be as one nation and will take over the affairs of the world where America used to be over the affairs of the world.

They call it the United States of Europe which America will join them but the European Union will be the main voice over the affairs of the world when they announce peace and safety for the world if they follow Europe's lead.

Matt
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#42
Scripture has prescribed the following:

1. If a person claims to be a prophet or claims to have received a vision, dream, or message from God, then:
2. This person must be judged (examined) by fellow believers (1 Corinthians 14:29).
3. We are commanded in Scripture to "test all things" and not to "believe every spirit, but test the spirits" (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1).

The reason for this is the following:
1. Just because someone claims to be a prophet, or just because someone claims to have a vision, dream, or message "from God" does not mean that it truly is from God
- 1a. Some of these people are intentionally trying to mislead the people into believing their lies
- 1b. Some of these people are mistaken and unintentionally misleading the people
- 1c. There have been many false prophets who worked dreams, visions, and miracles countless times in Scripture

2. Just as God has sent visions and spoken through prophets, so Satan has sent visions and spoken through false prophets. Remember the evil Egyptian magicians were able to perform some of the same miracles by the power of Satan that Moses performed by the power of God.

3. The Bible warns that Satan will come with "lying wonders" and signs (2 Thessalonians 2:9). Jesus warned that many false prophets would rise to show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, the elect (Matthew 24:24).

Therefore in order to honor the commandments of the Lord, if someone were to rise up and claim to have received a vision from God, they must be examined. If they will not be examined, then they must not speak their visions.

Again, I am not assuming that Loveschild is a false prophet. I never said she was. I am simply trying to examine her claims like Scripture commands. According to the examination thus far (even though she hasn't participated), I have found the following:
- She refuses to submit herself to the judgment of fellow believers. This is defiance to the prescribed method given by the Lord through Paul.
- She claims that God told her she did not have to submit herself to this judgment. This says 2 things: either God contradicts Himself or she is mistaken.

As you can see there are already red flags associated with this claim that this vision is from God. Anybody who has already assumed that vision indeed is from God, without testing these things first, has rejected the commands clearly given by God, and in so doing has despised His prescribed method.

Last thing: I am not denying that Loveschild is moral, godly, or what have you. But that doesn't mean anything. That she may be godly or moral does not mean we are to disregard what God has clearly commanded us regarding testing. Guess what? Joseph Smith was a very godly, moral man before he created the Mormon church. Same with Charles Russel with the Jehovah Witnesses.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#43
Again, I am not assuming that Loveschild is a false prophet. I never said she was. I am simply trying to examine her claims like Scripture commands. According to the examination thus far (even though she hasn't participated), I have found the following:
- She refuses to submit herself to the judgment of fellow believers. This is defiance to the prescribed method given by the Lord through Paul.
- She claims that God told her she did not have to submit herself to this judgment. This says 2 things: either God contradicts Himself or she is mistaken.
I understand your concern for testing the spirits and such, but I don't know if Internet forums are the format to try and


submit herself to the judgment of fellow believers.

This forum isn't necessarily a format to try and bring people in to some kind of submission like you'e suggesting. It is a place to discuss and test and examine, but I really feel like you're coming close to crossing that line here. So please just kinda don't keep doing this.Thanks.
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#44
I understand your concern for testing the spirits and such, but I don't know if Internet forums are the format to try and submit herself to the judgment of fellow believers. This forum isn't necessarily a format to try and bring people in to some kind of submission like you'e suggesting. It is a place to discuss and test and examine, but I really feel like you're coming close to crossing that line here. So please just kinda don't keep doing this.Thanks.
This is a place to discuss and test and examine yes. And when I say "submit to the judgment of fellow believers" I simply mean to allow those claims to be discussed, tested, and examined.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#45
This is a place to discuss and test and examine yes. And when I say "submit to the judgment of fellow believers" I simply mean to allow those claims to be discussed, tested, and examined.
K, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#46
This is a place to discuss and test and examine yes. And when I say "submit to the judgment of fellow believers" I simply mean to allow those claims to be discussed, tested, and examined.
Still waiting for you to do this.
 
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dane_g87

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#47
I'm sorry for causing any confusion. All I am coming from is that I was going through the forums and I saw this thread, and saw how someone said they had a vision from God. And I was confused and disturbed at how everybody in the thread just took this vision to be directly from God without having any inclination to do what the Bible says in testing all things, testing the spirits, testing the prophecies/visions. So that is why I have lifted up my voice here.

Imoss I have already asked Loveschild 2 questions regarding her visions to which she has said "God told her she didn't have to reply." From the testing thus far I have found the following:
- God has declared visions/prophecies to be judged/examined/tested by fellow believers
- She refuses to acknowledge this commandment

So I conclude thus far that this is already a red flag. This is all I have gathered as of now. I assured her that there is nothing to fear if these visions are truly from God.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#48
I understand... I just have no clue how we are to test the validity of anothers vision. I know how to test the preacher who says in the name of Jesus the Holy spirit commanded one to kick another for healing... this is contrary to the Holy Spirit & I therefore reject this preacher as a false profit. I wasnt just being contrary... I want to know how do we test a vision. I received a vision in prayer about my mother in law it was the first and only time I've received a vision. It was of a lava rock tumbling & tumbling until it was a beautiful polished oval stone. I'm not sure how to test that vision but I was certain it was from the Lord as it came in a time of prayer.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#49
If a person is actually healed by kicking them I think it's hard to doubt its God. A kick would be far less hurtful than invasive surgury anyway.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#50
That would be contrary to the holy spirit.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#51
I dont think it's exactly contrary if the result is healing. Unless we believe that satan is healing. I think we all believe the Holy Spirit allows us to commit violence towards children ( smacking), Jesus driving out moneychangers with a whip, various atrocities and genocides in the old testament.
 
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dane_g87

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#52
I understand... I just have no clue how we are to test the validity of anothers vision. I know how to test the preacher who says in the name of Jesus the Holy spirit commanded one to kick another for healing... this is contrary to the Holy Spirit & I therefore reject this preacher as a false profit. I wasnt just being contrary... I want to know how do we test a vision. I received a vision in prayer about my mother in law it was the first and only time I've received a vision. It was of a lava rock tumbling & tumbling until it was a beautiful polished oval stone. I'm not sure how to test that vision but I was certain it was from the Lord as it came in a time of prayer.
I am glad that you are inquiring about this issue as it is very important especially at such a time that we are in now. Now Imoss I am going to address a few things and I don't want you to think I am personally accusing you of these things. I am only bringing these things up as examples in order to make my point.

The first thing I will say is why do you think just because you had a vision during a time of prayer that it came from God? There is nothing in Scripture that says such a thing. I am not saying your vision was not from God; I am only saying that you cannot be certain it was from God simply because it was during a time of prayer. We all know that lost people pray to God. The Bible says the prayers of the wicked are an abomination to Him. Again, I'm not saying you are lost/wicked, or that your prayer was an abomination. I am simply saying that a prayer in and of itself guarantees nothing.

Secondly, the only basis we have for testing anything, whether it be testing the preaching of a minister, the vision of a prophet, or whatever the case is...the only basis is the word of God. This is the ruler by which we measure what is from God and what isn't. We must acknowledge that the word of God stands above all things, including independent visions, dreams, sermons, catechisms, whatever. If something does not align perfectly with Scripture, then we know without a doubt it is not from God. The Bible gives us an armory of defense in Ephesians 6, but the only method of offense we have is the "sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." The Scriptures are our weapon to cut through the curtains of darkness in order to discern between truth and deceit.

How do we test using the word of God?
1. We test the content of the vision/sermon/catechism/dream. What is it about? Does the vision say something biblical? Does it say something unbiblical? Does the sermon teach a biblical doctrine? Or an unbiblical one? Whether or not the content aligns perfectly with Scripture will determine if this vision/sermon/etc is from God or not.

2. We test the circumstances of the vision. How did the vision come about? Did it come about like visions came about in Scripture? How was the person affected? Were they affected like those who received visions in Scripture were affected?

3. We test the claims of the vision. Is what the vision claimed coming to pass? How specific are the vision's claims? The Bible declares that if what a vision claims does not come to pass, then it is a false prophet whom God has not sent. A key flag to look for here is how specific or vague the vision is. Whenever God spoke a vision to the people, it was always, though sometimes difficult to discern, nonetheless a very specific event foretold which indeed came to pass. Many people who have not received a vision of God will utter a vision that is just vague and bound to occur simply because of the odds of it happening regardless. Such as, "There is a mighty thunderstorm coming upon us..." - Well, of course, we live in a region on the globe where thunderstorms are frequent during the right time, some small, some mighty.

This is all I can think of at the moment. But if you follow along with these guidelines and test all things by Scripture, you will do fine.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#53
ah Dane, when Peter had a vision about the unclean animals , what scriptures did he use to test it?
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#54
ah Dane, when Peter had a vision about the unclean animals , what scriptures did he use to test it?
Mahogony I sure hope you are not equating yourself with an apostle who is inspired by the Holy Spirit... Are you inspired by the Holy Spirit so that you can pen Scripture that have the same authority as the rest of the Bible? If not, then you cannot compare yourself to an apostle. And since you are subordinate to the apostles, any vision you would thus get would be subordinate to the writing of the apostles - which is why you must test them by the Scriptures.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#55
Do you think we have a different Holy Spirit to the apostles? If you or I have a dream, how is it any different to if Peter or Paul had a dream?

Since the apostles were to write scripture, shouldn't it have been even more important for them to check their visions against scripture? Yet we see that they didn't.

As I have the Holy Spirit I can pen scripture, but it won't have the same weight as the apostles, but it doesnt' mean what I write is false. That's why Christian bookstores can do business, because almost every book on the shelf contains inspired relevation. We don't hold them to the same weight as scripture in matters of doctrine, but they are popular, which indicates that the bible alone is not enough for christian living in our modern world.

If subjecting ourselves to the apostles teaching is the issue, I can guarantee you that every church and denomination existing today do not take their teaching from the apostles alone.
 
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May 21, 2009
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#56
Hi Dane
If you are a follower Of Jesus you should have the Holy Spirit and be asking him your questions not me. God speaks to his children.
 
May 21, 2009
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#57
Facts are that demons have powers and they can heal. They do all kinds of miracles signs and wonders that is why we are warned to watch out. Remember Moses and the magic makers?
People get dreams and visions. Sometimes it takes years before they know fully what its about. Sometimes its just days of prayer. Its not up to the person how long its up to God. God is the power source not any human.
Any way it was the Lord letting me know that all the warfare me and a few others have been doing agaisnt satans kingdom is working full force. The enemy is getting weaker and weaker and they are running for there lives. Gods power is coming thr our prayers and our binding the devils and casting them out is working. All glory to our Lord!
 
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Consumed

Guest
#58
I dont think it's exactly contrary if the result is healing. Unless we believe that satan is healing. I think we all believe the Holy Spirit allows us to commit violence towards children ( smacking), Jesus driving out moneychangers with a whip, various atrocities and genocides in the old testament.

Amen, Smiths Wigglesworth was known to have punched people in the stomach when casting out demons. It states that in i book on read on his amazing lifes walk with our Lord.
 
May 21, 2009
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#59
I'm sure it was wigglesworth that todd bently followed.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#60
contrary to the Holy Spirit I say, regardless of who the human was doing these contrary things.
 
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