WHAT DO YOU SEE???

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joaniemarie

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Jan 4, 2017
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You must close the quote after each paragraph. For the first paragraph you want to isolate, just add the [ /quote] (but no spaces :)) For each paragraph after that, wrap quote tags around each part you want to separate (it is the first icon on the upper right above the text box), with your responses in between. For the last paragraph, the end quote is already in place. You can delete it and use the quote wrap again, or just add [ quote] at the beginning (no spaces :))

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Thank you Mag! You are so purple-ee and pretty!! It would probably be really good if I just shortened my posts. As it is I messed up and ran out of time after looking it over. The tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil... and some other things that should have been changed. But thank you for answering., much appreciated.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Thank you Mag! You are so purple-ee and pretty!! It would probably be really good if I just shortened my posts. As it is I messed up and ran out of time after looking it over. The tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil... and some other things that should have been changed. But thank you for answering., much appreciated.
You are welcome, Joanie! I hope it made sense :D
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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While looking this sifted issue up I was again brought to JOY by reading Hebrews 7:25 how in the new covenant it's explained about how Jesus takes care of us and compares Jesus to the human priests. Read before and after vs 25

Hence also He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.


What satan desired to do to Job and to Peter., he desires to do to everyone of us 24/7. But we who have Jesus cannot be sifted through like wheat because Jesus lives after the power of an endless life. Jesus is unlike those human high priests who live after the power of a life that ended. We cannot be destroyed by the enemy of our souls because we have a Great High Priest. And as long as He lives we hold to Him and believe on and trust Him, His great and precious promises come pouring into our lives., we will get through the process by grace through faith while we live by faith and not by sight. Just like Job and Peter learned to do.

Hi Joanie

Looking at the scripture we can see this was spoken to Peter by the Lord before he was born again. Peter was boisterous, maybe a bit proudful? of being with Jesus because he boasts that he was ready to go through with Jesus the things that was about to happen. Jesus then tells him that he will deny Him.

I believe any way that Satan can touch one by "right" is because of our flesh, our nature of sin. After the Cross and the victory over Satan and the world spirit, those "rights" are lost. We now are of another Kingdom. And we declare this to be so by our faith. Protected now...saved...safe. No longer flesh but Spirit. This just came to me as I was reading.


Look here and see if you agree...

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

I believe conversion came to the disciples when they saw their risen Lord and repented of not believing that He was who He said He was. And Jesus then breathes on them saying, receive my Holy Spirit.

If we are flesh, we are of the kingdom of darkness, and under his rule.
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest
John 15:7 - "If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you."
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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I'm still learning how to be guided. My personality is one of a country woman living out in the country with good dogs and some cats in a private country house surrounded by trees and flowers. Being able to go outside in the yard and mow the lawn etc... I've had different kind of homes since 2007 that were not living in the country and learned to be thankful for each one. But it took me some time to learn where I was really going to live and thrive.

God allowed me to make mistakes along the way because I was bound and determined to do so. The Bible told me otherwise many times in verses like "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding... In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths"

But I thought finding the right house and the right job and the right husband and relationships were going to make me happy because the Bible also says those things are good. I didn't understand properly how to have those things. Those things are good in and of themselves but not when I depend on them to be secure and safe here on earth.


That was a learning process I need not have gone through had I simply trusted first in Jesus love and provision for me. But I had learned God was not like that by my parents and by the world. I had a lot that needed to be unlearned. That it is Jesus who can be trusted to lead and guide me through my mixed up emotions of what life should or should not be.

That He would be the ONE to get those things I needed in life and desired because He loved me and would take care of me better than I or anyone else could. People can die or leave., houses can catch fire and burn down., health can change to sickness..., Only Jesus can keep and uphold us. Only Jesus can allow me to keep any of those things of security from the harshness of the world represented in my life. Only He can maintain my life well HERE as well as in eternity.


I used to believe the philosophy that God helps those who help themselves. But today I know Jesus is the Good Shepherd who provides for the sheep. Leads the sheep and guides the sheep. The same way He saved us and gave us all things pertaining to life and godliness I've learned that ALSO includes the living out of our lives here. He also shows so much mercy and grace on and for the sheep WHILE we are learning here on earth how to follow Him and be like Him. The (process) is only hard when we want to go our way and not allow Him to lead and bring us into truth.


Why should we believe the very opposite of that? Why should we accept that Jesus wants to call good the things and times we are confused and disillusioned in Him? Why should we still call "good" the things we once thought and believed and walked in that in fact were very bad? Even though we learned that the wolf was bad because he bit us and wounded us and killed our family we should call him good? No.., We have been given "grace" for those times of not knowing or believing. Where sin abounds grace does much more abound Romans 5:20

Should we sin that grace should abound? God forbid. So we should not say that our sin that causes us to fall is good. It's covered by His grace., but it's not good nor is it good to fall. Falling is bad., being bit by the wolf is bad., divorce is not good., losing family is not good., being homeless and helpless is not good. Being sick is not good., dying is not good. etc.... But they can be used by God for our good. He doesn't cause them., He will use them for our good because for sure we will get mixed up in them while here on earth. He will show out His grace and goodness in spite of them.

Romans 5:20-21 And the Law came that the transgression might increase but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more.
That as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it.






He guides my every step. He would not allow satan to sift me unless it was for my most blessed good. However, it took some growing in trust for me to truly believe that He was ALWAYS only going to give me or allow for me what would be the very best for me.

Christ learned obedience through the things He suffered. The same happens with me. The obedience and steadfastness of faith is learned through the things He gives us or allows for us. All that I have faced that was distasteful to me, has made my faith in Him more steadfast, as James says. But I didn't start out rejoicing when I met with trials of my faith. I learned to rejoice for the good I saw many times come to me as a result of the trials. But I many times told God that He had come to seem so cruel to me and that He had hedged me in and never seemed to let me catch my breath.

He gives us what we are ready to bear. And He can be trusted!
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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Hi Joanie

Looking at the scripture we can see this was spoken to Peter by the Lord before he was born again. Peter was boisterous, maybe a bit proudful? of being with Jesus because he boasts that he was ready to go through with Jesus the things that was about to happen. Jesus then tells him that he will deny Him.

I believe any way that Satan can touch one by "right" is because of our flesh, our nature of sin. After the Cross and the victory over Satan and the world spirit, those "rights" are lost. We now are of another Kingdom. And we declare this to be so by our faith. Protected now...saved...safe. No longer flesh but Spirit. This just came to me as I was reading.


Look here and see if you agree...

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

I believe conversion came to the disciples when they saw their risen Lord and repented of not believing that He was who He said He was. And Jesus then breathes on them saying, receive my Holy Spirit.

If we are flesh, we are of the kingdom of darkness, and under his rule.

Hi SOF., Yes., I agree that before Jesus went to the cross those believers who were with Him and believed were not sealed but they believed by faith. Like those in the OT. And because the veil was still in place in the temple they still did not have full access to God the Father. But after Jesus finished the work, He lead captivity captive.

The Holy Spirit being given was such an amazing gift IS SUCH AN AMAZING GIFT. He has sealed us and now He lives in us to teach us and lead us into all truth. He is the Comforter and the Teacher the Guide.

But it is possible for us believers to not believe the truths coming to us in the Bible and through the Holy Spirit. We can refuse to accept the desire of the Holy Spirit to fill us each day. We can decide to walk in our own righteousness here on earth and cut off the provision we have of His grace. I've done it for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarss. And was miserable and defeated and dying.

You could say I fell from grace for a time because of lack of understanding of how Jesus is my righteousness. Trying to walk in my own righteousness. I stopped the grace of God from flowing for a long time. But He did not forsake me. I am the one who lived and frustrated the grace of God in my life. But the Holy Spirit keeps us sealed and never stops influencing His children.


I stopped a lot of healing and restoration for a long time. There is a lot to this subject but let me say that today I am daily learning again. Open to His grace in my life and know that it's not due to my good works or my own righteousness but because Jesus gifted His righteousness to me. I receive it new each day by hearing about Him in the Bible and He keeps showering grace upon grace as a gift. And it flows.
 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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Here is something else that is good to discuss. So., you are saying as we grow in faith and learn about how to be more faithful in Christ., God is going to send more trials and testings our way as a reward for walking in the obedience of faith that will be harsher and more difficult and ugly but He won't leave us? NOOOOOOOO

The more we grow in faith the more able to stand we are when trials come from the outside here on this earth. Coming from the world...the flesh and the devil. God does not test us with evil. We are here on earth and just being here we will encounter tribulation. God is not giving us tribulation. We are not called to say "this ugly car wreck is a lovely loaf of bread not a snake, i will have faith that this ugly snake is a blessing from God so I should take it to my breast" NOOOOOOO

STOP....GO BACK.... TURN AROUND!!!!!!


Growing in the knowledge of Christ is what our goal is. The Bible reveals Jesus. The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus. We are being taught to know Him and the power of His resurrection and tell others about Jesus. Our mission here on earth is not to suffer.
Jesus took that and wants us to live in and through Him. Those going to death are carrying a cross. Before Jesus died on the cross his disciples had to carry a cross. Everyone before His death on the cross was carrying their own cross. They had to carry their own crosses. But you will not see that in any of the books of Paul to the church. why??

We are ALREADY DEAD AND OUR LIFE IS HID WITH CHRIST. We are to recon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. We are not daily dying. We are already dead with Him. Now we walk out what Christ already did. He is not dying every day is He? No. He died once. And we are also to recon ourselves to have died with Him ONCE. It takes daily reminders and
reconing on our part. But We don't die daily. We recon daily that we ARE already dead to sin and ALIVE in Christ. WOW







He gives us what we are ready to bear. And He can be trusted!

Part of growing in faith in Him is to learn that He will never give us a stone when we ask for bread. So part of that growing in trust is to not say that something is very hard like a stone to me and so He has given me a stone. That's not going by faith that says our Father, if we ask for bread, sometimes gives us a stone. It's going by faith to say, my Father will not give me a stone to eat when I have asked for bread - this will end in His glory and in my greatest good.

The older and more mature a child becomes, the more difficulties he is faced with. But he has also grown and is more capable of bearing those difficulties.

I'm not talking about what any man or church has taught me. I'm talking about what I have seen and lived. He never allows a trial for any reason other than to grow my trust in Him and to make it more and more pure. Faith is like a muscle. It is with use and with opposition to the muscle that the muscle grows. If the muscle never comes to an opposition to its movement, it will never grow and prove strong enough to push through the opposition or the weight bearing on it. (The trial).

Good morning by the way! Or...this is not morning or afternoon to you, is it? You were drinking your morning coffee at midnight. I've worked nights so I know what you mean about that. :)
 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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In closing., just to be clear. There is a battle as we are learning. It is not easy for us in the flesh to put aside our human senses and feelings and reasoning power. It's by that power how we lived for years here on earth. We learned to breath that way and walk and everything else we did or do in these flesh bodies. Now we are learning how to be a new man. The old habits of living are there but not the old man. We still have these mortal bodies that house our new man but this body is not who we really are.


We have memories of our old man and evidences of him when we live in these bodies. But our old man is dead and his power is gone. Jesus defeated the power of sin and death and hell and satan. We can chose to live according to our old way of life our old manner of living. OR we can by faith chose the new and living way that the Holy Spirit is daily drawing us to.

I hope that is clear and that any verses that talk about death...dying....dead...daily dying....dying all day long... sheep to the slaughter.... remember it has to be looked at the death already done for us by Jesus. Our job is to see this death was accomplished IN Christ each day as we go about our lives LIVING. It's a truth that Jesus already done it and we daily agree with it as being a done deal.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Can I hear the literal translation for the verse in the NT: satan has asked to sift you like wheat?
And what does that mean: literal translation?
To sift is to divide the fruit from the chaff. Or the things of God from those of men .Something Peter experienced when he denied Christ in unbelief, a characteristic of the antichrists.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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What "precedent" (?) I see only satan (not God) using this sifting process to kill..steal and destroy Job and Peter and us. Because man gave up his first place in the garden., he opened up a can of worms (literally) for the rest of us. God is not "allowing" satan to do this stuff. "We" have allowed it and brought it upon ourselves as a human race when Adam believed the lie satan told about God and to questions God's goodness and good intentions towards man.

And because God loves His human creation His plan is to save them by freeing them and making them His children again. To do this He sent His Son... the perfect man., totally better than Adam. Jesus is the God-man who was able to deal with satan properly the way Adam couldn't. (we are not asked to deal with satan because Jesus already did) we are to "resist" and we do that by faith in Christ's finished work in and for us knowing the truth. satan then has no choice but to flee and go find someone else who doesn't know the truth.

Sifting from the devil is for the purposes of destroying us piece by piece by using lies., torments, sickness, death., confusion along with other consequences of sin including unbelief. (all came into being at the time of the fall) But NOW Jesus is our (the believer's) High Priest that ALWAYS goes before us.

For as long as we are on earth., we will be learning how to put ON the new man who is made after Christ. satan wants to stop that process by keeping us flesh-minded., earth bound minded. Even though we have been given all these great and precious promises that ARE already ours for walking them out of us by faith. If satan can keep our eyes on the temporal by causing confusion....(something God did not give us) sickness..... (something God did not give us) Pain... (something God did not give us)

he can mess us up for a verrrrrrrrrrrrry loooooong time. We start to attribute the evil in our lives to God because of this false theology that God is sifting us like wheat when it's always satan who does that. Jesus came to give us life and health and peace. Not death and sickness and unrest. If I don't know evil came from the world., flesh and the devil but thought God was sending it to "teach me holy lessons".,,, I will not fight the evil that comes into my life. I will embrace it and call it good. And I did used to do that. But not any more. I call evil = evil and call good = good

This also has something to do with the tree of good and evil. God never meant for us to have to contend with the evil or even have to be aware of it. But because of Adam we are in a world that mixes the lie with the truth. But that should not be what we do. We should be learning all through our lives here on earth how to NOT do that. How Jesus already defeated those things for us. We are now more than conquerors through Christ who loves us.

The process of learning how to put on Christ is done by grace through faith. We are not condemned to sufffffeeeerrrr and writhe in pain as we go forward and learn how to work out by faith what Christ has put in us at the cross. So this whole idea of when we follow Christ there is coming unbearable sufferrring pain and anguish., misery and confusion while being melted in a pot so our gold will show through and the junk comes out of us is to me a lie from the enemy.


The process of (working out what Christ has worked in) Working out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling means with all seriousness of heart knowing how the enemy (goes about as a roaring lion) will seek to defeat the process. The process is done individually by each one of us IN Christ THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Who Jesus said is like RIVERS of LIVING WATERS flowing in and through us. John 7:38-39 And this is not grievous or a miserable burdensome task. Jesus said His burden is light and easy. We are not in a melting vat being melted while screaming in pain and anguish as if in hell on earth. We are not to fear God but love Him knowing that perfect love cast out fear.


We should be learning from the Teacher the HolySpirit through reading the Word. But often (like myself) many of us take what we know about the Bible and go no further.

I thought I had the "basics" of Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit down pat and knew the fundamentals so now I could and He expected me to walk the walk.
So much for what I knew about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.





We have a precedent that is in the OT AND the NT, that satan is sometimes allowed to sift us like wheat. We have Job and we have Peter. Sifting is for the purpose of removing something. It is not for the purpose of harming the wheat. It is for the purpose of having only the wheat remain, without specks or little pebbles that aren't wheat. A little tiny stone left in wheat can make someone shatter a tooth when they eat a piece of bread baked with it. It can also cause the bread to be inedible if there is no sifting and too much dross (crap) is left in with the wheat.

I meant the precedent that God ALLOWS satan, permits satan, to sift us. Yes, it is not God sifting us. And He sometimes permits it for our great good. Just as He permitted that men kill Him for our great good. It is all, always and only always for our great good and blessing, as we see with Job, who after the sifting was able to say: before I had only HEARD about God but now I have MET Him!!