What do you think about works?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,012
1,885
113
#1
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,356
431
83
#2
Many people don't understand what works actually means.

Titus 2:11-14 (ESV)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Revelation 20:12 (ASV)And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13.And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according their works.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,273
857
113
#3
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
I don't think about works at all. I just do what I believe the Lord wants me to do. If you are being led by the Spirit and doing as He says, the rest just follows. The Christian life is way simpler than many people imagine. Love God, love the brethren, love your neighbour and love yourself. You can't go wrong.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,389
847
113
London
#4
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
Although Jesus tells us to not work so as to be seen of men He does say that God will reward us openly, that is how He gets the glory.

Christians can be wayward in their thinking, they work, work, work but eschew any thought of reward. They give money, generously, but say they don't want any return. That's wayward.

That's wayward and not according to God's word. It's like a farmer sowing his seed and not expecting them to grow. Jesus says "Give and it shall be given you again, good measure pressed down and running over etc"

But this relates to our life and to our walk, not to salvation.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,012
1,885
113
#5
Although Jesus tells us to not work so as to be seen of men He does say that God will reward us openly, that is how He gets the glory.

Christians can be wayward in their thinking, they work, work, work but eschew any thought of reward. They give money, generously, but say they don't want any return. That's wayward.

That's wayward and not according to God's word. It's like a farmer sowing his seed and not expecting them to grow. Jesus says "Give and it shall be given you again, good measure pressed down and running over etc"

But this relates to our life and to our walk, not to salvation.
Good thoughts, although if we give without love but only in order to get it is as if we didn't give at all.

If we decide not to walk with Jesus then the faith that God looks at to give the gift of salvation is questionable.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,711
10,382
113
#6
For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
Well, I think you are misrepresenting the early church. They were indeed very concerned about doctrine, which is why they argued against heresies and put out of the church those who were divisive. That is evident in Acts and the epistles.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,873
1,168
113
#7
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
An Olympian athlete who want to compete in the Games spends hours, days, and years of hard work, effort, and tireless strenuous effort to prepare and train.

That is my attitude in my Christian walk. I work hard: I work long: I give all that I can and have: I strive toward the goal!

And yet I rest in Him - oh, the beauty of knowing Him! . . .
 
Jul 1, 2021
78
24
8
#8
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or dont do in front of men?
 

SomeDisciple

Active member
Jul 4, 2021
238
122
43
#9
don't put a basket over yourself and deliberately hide your faith in shame because other people around you are different.

But at the same time, dont do works just for people to see.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
275
79
28
ogom.co
#10
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)


.....

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him.

....

What do you think the Lord wants from us?



download-24.jpeg
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,246
3,988
113
#11
Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.
I have never seen anyone on this site who warn against working.
I have seen many and if memory serves me you are one of them who believe we are saved by faith and not works and that we cannot earn salvation by our works.

Correct me if I am wrong concerning your thoughts that I have posted.

Also you say they feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.
You have said feel, and not warn against.
Are you interpreting what you think they are saying?


Romans 3:21-24

God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

We are declared righteous by faith.
Is being justified as a result of being declared righteous through faith by grace?

I would say yes.
It's unmerited and therefore must be a gift

However I will say that it is no excuse to sit on your backside and do nothing.

James addressed this.
You say you have faith, let's see it in action.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We see that good works are prepared beforehand to walk in.
Yet saved by grace through faith and it's a gift.

Works do not declare us righteous before God.
We are declared righteous by faith which will lead to works.
As we mature in Christ as a result of being conformed to the image of Christ our works will increase as a fruit of the Holy Spirit working in us.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,000
14,938
113
#12
don't put a basket over yourself and deliberately hide your faith in shame because other people around you are different.

But at the same time, dont do works just for people to see.
Exactly! :)
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
275
79
28
ogom.co
#13
Many people don't understand what works actually means.

Titus 2:11-14 (ESV)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave hipmself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Revelation 20:12 (ASV)And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13.And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according their works.


which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,012
1,885
113
#14
Well, I think you are misrepresenting the early church. They were indeed very concerned about doctrine, which is why they argued against heresies and put out of the church those who were divisive. That is evident in Acts and the epistles.
It isn't that I am "wrong' but a matter of understanding. It is correct, they stood firm against heresy but they did not stand firm against how to eat or the day to worship. In the early church they loved each other as is documented even by the Romans who were against them, they were not quick to say to each other "you are misrepresetig".
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,356
431
83
#15
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
Contradictions aren't unusual in scripture.

Maybe look at it like this. Think of a major event that occurred 35 years ago.
Now imagine someone trying to recollect all those details to create a written historic record of those events today.

That's the Book of Mark. Written some 35 years after Jesus.

Think of the phrase, good deeds, instead of works. Godly deeds.
Christians serve the kingdom of God on earth. We follow where he leads.

Feel for all those underserved because there could be a Christian out there who doesn't serve others. They're selfish. Because they think their salvation makes them Teflon.
Protected, sealed, to the last day.

And no one else matters.

Of course good deeds don't save us. That's a false argument. Good deeds are evidence of our Salvation.

Just like righteousness. We know God's commands don't save us.
Rightness, Righteousness, is apparent when we serve God. When we live our neighbor as yourself. Which means we don't steal from them, don't kill them, don't lie about them.

That's love.
Anything else, anything less, is fraud.

God knows there is far too much of that in this world.:(
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
275
79
28
ogom.co
#16
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or dont do in front of men?

"God is Light and there is no darkness in Him"


download-27.jpeg


"for now We see Through a glass Darkly"


download-5.jpeg


put these two concepts together and what do you get?


God is Light -- God is perfect ?? -- (God also is all- knowledge) ?


we see Darkly -- we are not full of Light -- we are not all knowledge


= = = = we see Darkly because we are part -- d a r k


what (could) this mean for us right here - right now? :unsure::unsure:


in as much darkness [sin] we remain in, or have remained in the past also -- is to the degree that we (might) be able to see Truth / come out of the darkness of Thought / Mind / UnderstandING / Comprehension -- of GOD -- about God -- about Truth -- about Ourselves / The World / about EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE..
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,356
431
83
#17
It isn't that I am "wrong' but a matter of understanding. It is correct, they stood firm against heresy but they did not stand firm against how to eat or the day to worship. In the early church they loved each other as is documented even by the Romans who were against them, they were not quick to say to each other "you are misrepresetig".
Apostles never stopped keeping the law



When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the OT Laws?
That's not likely because Paul was observing the law himself and he taught the Gentiles to follow his own example (Phil. 3:17; Phil. 4:9; 1Cor. 4:16-17; 1Cor. 11:1) …
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,012
1,885
113
#18
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or dont do in front of men?
I think the Lord is so much a part of us that the Lord knows why we do our works. The Lord wants our love and for us to let our work emulate from that. If work is done to impress others, it is not done out of love and has no value.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,356
431
83
#19
"God is Light and there is no darkness in Him"


View attachment 231010


"for now We see Through a glass Darkly"


View attachment 231011


put these two concepts together and what do you get?


God is Light -- God is perfect ?? -- (God also is all- knowledge) ?


we see Darkly -- we are not full of Light -- we are not all knowledge


= = = = we see Darkly because we are part -- d a r k


what (could) this mean for us right here - right now? :unsure::unsure:


in as much darkness [sin] we remain in, or have remained in the past also -- is to the degree that we (might) be able to see Truth / come out of the darkness of Thought / mind / UnderstandING / Comprehension -- of GOD -- about God -- about Truth -- about Ourselves / The World / about EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE..
Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,012
1,885
113
#20
Apostles never stopped keeping the law

When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the OT Laws?
That's not likely because Paul was observing the law himself and he taught the Gentiles to follow his own example (Phil. 3:17; Phil. 4:9; 1Cor. 4:16-17; 1Cor. 11:1) …
Then why do you think there are so many posts telling us to be careful of our works because only faith saves, telling us we are dead to the law so we need not listen to it, and on and on? One person says there is only one purpose of law and that is to tell us we are sinful, there is no other reason for it.