Because few people have genuine faith. If you look at Hebrews chapter 4 the Lord gives us a picture. The problem with the "Church" today is that they are drunk on doctrinal wine. The seminaries are teaching salvation properly, but they lack enough knowledge to make disciples. It, in my opinion, is not an accident, but intentional. The same wealthy individuals who sponsor the seminaries are the same people who are making merchandise of us when we ignorantly stumble into sin.
What Does It Mean To "Fall From Grace"?
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LOL! You begin with a premise that you can't lose your salvation and then interpret everything from that standard!
And you wind up with laughable statements like "you can't fall from grace": when Gal. 5:4 says " . . .
And you wind up with laughable statements like "you can't fall from grace": when Gal. 5:4 says " . . .
you are fallen from Grace" (Gal. 5:4).
So you have decided what Scripture teaches and don't want to have a conversation about what it actually says?
So you have decided what Scripture teaches and don't want to have a conversation about what it actually says?
Well I do think they are correctly teaching faith in the gospel alone, but are failing to teach what it means to follow the two commands Christ gave to the Church. To love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. The other is to love your neighbor as yourself.
Loving God for His unspeakable gift trying to understand what is His will, and doing it. Also to continue growing in Grace and in the knowledge of the Lord.
To let our words minister Grace to the hearers. There is a verse in the old testament that tells us to do right, love mercy, and walk humbly with the Lord.
Paul said I cease not to warn every man.
Some forget they are free from sins power. They use verses like 1Corinthians 6:12 to justify walking in sin. What they should do is get a dictionary and look up the word expedient, which means doesn't work toward your expected end. Ignorance is our enemy.
Loving God for His unspeakable gift trying to understand what is His will, and doing it. Also to continue growing in Grace and in the knowledge of the Lord.
To let our words minister Grace to the hearers. There is a verse in the old testament that tells us to do right, love mercy, and walk humbly with the Lord.
Paul said I cease not to warn every man.
Some forget they are free from sins power. They use verses like 1Corinthians 6:12 to justify walking in sin. What they should do is get a dictionary and look up the word expedient, which means doesn't work toward your expected end. Ignorance is our enemy.
Galatians 5:4-6: "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
For we (believers) through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love"
No mention here of believers falling from grace, or losing salvation.
It mentions "you" versus "we".
V1 addresses non believers who are trying to be saved by law (works). Since they're seeking salvation (the wrong way), evidently they don't yet have it. Paul says that they are the ones that have fallen from grace. Many were trying to add to the finished work of Jesus, making additional requirements for salvation, such as circumcision.
So based on these facts it's clear that "fallen from grace" means that they fall away from grace. They reject the gospel of grace, instead believing their works are necessary, when it is Christ's work alone and nothing added.
For we (believers) through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love"
No mention here of believers falling from grace, or losing salvation.
It mentions "you" versus "we".
V1 addresses non believers who are trying to be saved by law (works). Since they're seeking salvation (the wrong way), evidently they don't yet have it. Paul says that they are the ones that have fallen from grace. Many were trying to add to the finished work of Jesus, making additional requirements for salvation, such as circumcision.
So based on these facts it's clear that "fallen from grace" means that they fall away from grace. They reject the gospel of grace, instead believing their works are necessary, when it is Christ's work alone and nothing added.
The context is never one who has not believed to the salvation of ones soul. We are receiving the end of our salvation from the beginning as the better thing that accompanies salvation found in Hebrews 6 which is actual redemption not a down payment of a unknown amount of grace.
There is no partial believing as some sort of remnant of grace. That's a Catholic idea that Christ gave a unknown remnant of grace. They make the grace of God that teaches us to say no to that kind of ungodliness, without effect .
Its either the fullness of His grace or none, Unbelievers do not fall from grace . They fall from tasting it by not eating it.
Is not the you verses me anymore than it is the literal letter of the law vs the spirit of the law or the law of faith in respect to Christ not seen in us working to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness.
The you is the same foolish in Galatian believers in chapter 3 that are hoping salvation as to its beginning is a work of God called a "hearing of His faith" that works in the believer but after that you are on your own The foolish believer has said in his heart as they fall from the unseen grace that works in the heart there is no God. Circumcision as ceremonial law never made anything perfect it was a shadow that some worshiped as if they were walking by faith ..
He did not calls them fools as if they did not know what grace is .Believer do foolish things and need to rescued by Christ who began the good work in us.
Ask your own self who is your confidant?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will performit until the "day of Jesus Christ":
The last day and not the last moment a person sinned. If we say we have not sinned we simply make him the liar turning things upside down .
There is no partial believing as some sort of remnant of grace. That's a Catholic idea that Christ gave a unknown remnant of grace. They make the grace of God that teaches us to say no to that kind of ungodliness, without effect .
Its either the fullness of His grace or none, Unbelievers do not fall from grace . They fall from tasting it by not eating it.
Is not the you verses me anymore than it is the literal letter of the law vs the spirit of the law or the law of faith in respect to Christ not seen in us working to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness.
The you is the same foolish in Galatian believers in chapter 3 that are hoping salvation as to its beginning is a work of God called a "hearing of His faith" that works in the believer but after that you are on your own The foolish believer has said in his heart as they fall from the unseen grace that works in the heart there is no God. Circumcision as ceremonial law never made anything perfect it was a shadow that some worshiped as if they were walking by faith ..
He did not calls them fools as if they did not know what grace is .Believer do foolish things and need to rescued by Christ who began the good work in us.
Ask your own self who is your confidant?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will performit until the "day of Jesus Christ":
The last day and not the last moment a person sinned. If we say we have not sinned we simply make him the liar turning things upside down .
You rarely see someone want to reconcile verses in tension to one another but you can't read your bible and not see them all! Its just too chock full of tensions! (Answer a fool/never answer a fool. I will never leave you/if you don't forgive you won't be forgiven, etc., etc.
Its gets really old to watch the standard form of pitting verses against verses in forum instead of fitting them together.
Like seedtime said - BOTH verses are true.
Its gets really old to watch the standard form of pitting verses against verses in forum instead of fitting them together.
Like seedtime said - BOTH verses are true.
R
Yes, it is old. That's why I try to lay hold of the tension and resolve it instead of being dogmatic about only one half of the truth hoping that if I hold out the longest and get the nastiest that I'll win.
Do me a favor. Read Deuteronomy 31 where the "I will never leave you or forsake you" comes from and see the whole truth about it that the church doesn't know about. You will see that the tension concerning that verse will disappear when you read the whole passage it comes from.
If the church knew the whole truth about it they would know it's hardly a 'once saved always saved' proof text. There are better one's to use to try to defend 'once saved always saved'. But 'I will never leave you or forsake you' is not even close to proving once saved always saved. In fact, it better proves the opposite. Check it out. You'll see.
Do me a favor. Read Deuteronomy 31 where the "I will never leave you or forsake you" comes from and see the whole truth about it that the church doesn't know about. You will see that the tension concerning that verse will disappear when you read the whole passage it comes from.
If the church knew the whole truth about it they would know it's hardly a 'once saved always saved' proof text. There are better one's to use to try to defend 'once saved always saved'. But 'I will never leave you or forsake you' is not even close to proving once saved always saved. In fact, it better proves the opposite. Check it out. You'll see.
7
true...needs to be said again
Galatians is the only letter in which Paul does not greet the recipients with his classic 'grace and peace to you from our Lord Jesus Christ'
the entire epistle he is in pain over their 'fall from grace'..which is, as you pointed out, adding to salvation...grace, forgiveness of sins and so on...through 'works'...not the kind we are created to do, but those of our or their, own making
so if you 'fall' from grace, you are adding to the work of Christ...which is finished
great post!
7
exaggerate much?
so you believe you are safe and sound but most folks are not?
speaking in absolutes indicates the mindset of the person communicating in that manner
in no way, shape or form, does it indicate truth and certainly not to anyone within hearing or reading distance
there is only way to be saved....but God has as many ways as there are individuals to bring to Himself, to keep to Himself and to save TO THE UTTERMOST those who are His
as we are not to judge hearts, I believe most likely that many who do not fit the 'mold' are saved...by Christ...by faith...not by doctrine or perfect alliance to a certain 'church'
so you believe you are safe and sound but most folks are not?
speaking in absolutes indicates the mindset of the person communicating in that manner
in no way, shape or form, does it indicate truth and certainly not to anyone within hearing or reading distance
there is only way to be saved....but God has as many ways as there are individuals to bring to Himself, to keep to Himself and to save TO THE UTTERMOST those who are His
as we are not to judge hearts, I believe most likely that many who do not fit the 'mold' are saved...by Christ...by faith...not by doctrine or perfect alliance to a certain 'church'
Is this person a worker on iniquity highlight in red you have described (Matthew 7:21-23 KJV)? Is the worker of iniquity saved (Matthew 7:21-23)? Why does a worker of iniquity come under judgement (Matthew 7:21-23)?
Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in Heaven.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? and in thy Name have cast out devils? and in thy Name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? and in thy Name have cast out devils? and in thy Name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.
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The word "expedient" in 1 Cor 6:12 is the Greek word symphérō.
From HELPS Word-studies:
4851 symphérō (from 4862 /sýn, "together with" and 5342 /phérō, "bring, carry") – properly, combine in a way that brings a profit (gain), especially by a "concurrence of circumstances" that results in benefit or advancement (M. Vincent).
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
2. with a reference to the subject, "to bear together or at the same time; to carry with other's; to collect or contribute in order to help, hence, to help, be profitable, be expedient"; συμφέρει, it is expedient, profitable, and in the same sense with a neuter plural: with the subject πάντα, 1 Corinthians 6:12; 1 Corinthians 10:23;
In 1 Cor 6:12, Paul speaks of being brought into subjection to those things which are not "expedient". So to continue to do those things which are not "expedient", we end up being brought under the authority of something which is unprofitable to us.
Paul finishes this section with 1 Cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
To glorify God in body and spirit is profitable. As we learn to follow this instruction, we will be in subjection to the proper Authority. And I realize this is a lifelong endeavor and hopefully we get better at it day by day.
From HELPS Word-studies:
4851 symphérō (from 4862 /sýn, "together with" and 5342 /phérō, "bring, carry") – properly, combine in a way that brings a profit (gain), especially by a "concurrence of circumstances" that results in benefit or advancement (M. Vincent).
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
2. with a reference to the subject, "to bear together or at the same time; to carry with other's; to collect or contribute in order to help, hence, to help, be profitable, be expedient"; συμφέρει, it is expedient, profitable, and in the same sense with a neuter plural: with the subject πάντα, 1 Corinthians 6:12; 1 Corinthians 10:23;
In 1 Cor 6:12, Paul speaks of being brought into subjection to those things which are not "expedient". So to continue to do those things which are not "expedient", we end up being brought under the authority of something which is unprofitable to us.
Paul finishes this section with 1 Cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
To glorify God in body and spirit is profitable. As we learn to follow this instruction, we will be in subjection to the proper Authority. And I realize this is a lifelong endeavor and hopefully we get better at it day by day.
7
I know you like to ignore me...in fact maybe you have me on ignore
but you make simple tings complicated
Paul was straightforward and you are trying to control this thread
your brush is broad, but not enough, apparently, to cover you as well
don't forget to lift your skirts when walking through puddles
Matthew...as you quoted...has nothing whatsoever to do with Paul and the Galatians
but you might understand that those whom Jesus turns away are those who USE His name for their own purposes...including those who cannot get enough pomegranates and tassels on their outfit
Paul is telling the Galatians they simply need to accept Jesus and not add to it
too bad you cannot see that
To add to my post.....
Galatians 3 shows believers trying to be sanctified by the flesh
Galatians 5 shows non believers trying to be justified by the flesh
Galatians 3:1-9: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit (believers), are you now being made perfect (sanctified) by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham"
Galatians 5:1-6: "(Believers) Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
You (non believers) have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we (because we) through the Spirit (believers) eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love"
In Galatians 3 they have begun in the Spirit (so they are born again believers) but they are trying to maintain their salvation themselves.
In Galatians 5 clearly being addressed are non believers, because they are trying to be justified by the flesh. Then the distinction is made "FOR WE (because we) through the Spirit" which speaks of believers, so a distinction is made.
"Fallen from grace" does not suggest losing salvation, since the context here is non believers who are trying to be justified by the law, so they are not saved to begin with, they are "attempting" to be saved.
Believers who are trying to maintain their salvation (claiming that salvation is conditional, that it can be lost, and that we must maintain it ourselves).... the message given is to not become entangled again with the yoke of bondage, which you have been freed from. You will lose your joy because you're not resting in what Christ has done for you. You will become entangled in the burdens that the lost are burdened with. Why become entangled again?!
Galatians 3 shows believers trying to be sanctified by the flesh
Galatians 5 shows non believers trying to be justified by the flesh
Galatians 3:1-9: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit (believers), are you now being made perfect (sanctified) by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham"
Galatians 5:1-6: "(Believers) Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
You (non believers) have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we (because we) through the Spirit (believers) eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love"
In Galatians 3 they have begun in the Spirit (so they are born again believers) but they are trying to maintain their salvation themselves.
In Galatians 5 clearly being addressed are non believers, because they are trying to be justified by the flesh. Then the distinction is made "FOR WE (because we) through the Spirit" which speaks of believers, so a distinction is made.
"Fallen from grace" does not suggest losing salvation, since the context here is non believers who are trying to be justified by the law, so they are not saved to begin with, they are "attempting" to be saved.
Believers who are trying to maintain their salvation (claiming that salvation is conditional, that it can be lost, and that we must maintain it ourselves).... the message given is to not become entangled again with the yoke of bondage, which you have been freed from. You will lose your joy because you're not resting in what Christ has done for you. You will become entangled in the burdens that the lost are burdened with. Why become entangled again?!