WHAT DOES THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT TEACH?

Denadii · Jul 16, 2017

Not enough faith....................Uh Yeah..........................
There are those in the WOF that think this way. In the Pentecostals too, and every other denomination I have had to do with.

Be careful when you say God will give you your desires too though. They'll call you a heretic too. LOL Though it is true. God delights in giving us the desires of our hearts.

BillG · Jul 16, 2017

Denadii said:

Yes he does but I would say if we are aligned with God as such then the desires in our heart is the desires he has placed in our hearts.

To me that is to be more like him and trust him. Love others like he loves us, accept others as he has accepted us.
To me that is where our faith must be placed..

To me a faith that seeks for rewards is in a sense misplaced. Sort of like saying "I'll give money and claim you will give me 4 fold back"

To be honest I have done that because I was told that.
Was seriously in debt, went to an elder and was told to tithe (3 year deed of covenant) and God would clear my debt
After 3 years my debt had doubled.

God did deal with it and cleared it. Only after he revealed to me, pay your debtors first and don't give to the church.

I was about 49k in debt, now it's all gone.

Now I have money to give to others who need it and that's a desire that God has laid on my heart.

Funnily enough at times what I have given to others has been given back to me by others who have no idea I have given.

My desire is for a brand new car, is that from God? Nope I've got one that works.

Stephen63 · Jul 16, 2017

BenFTW said:

Not quite. No context there, I see.

13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

What's that old saying? Context, context, context!

Denadii · Jul 16, 2017

Stephen63 said:

This is context.
[h=1] Mark 11 (KJV)
[/h] 11 And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And they said unto them even as Jesus had commanded: and they let them go.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when even was come, he went out of the city.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And say unto him, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said unto them, I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.

And then check other versions

[h=1] Mark 11 (CJB)
[/h] 11 As they were approaching Yerushalayim, near Beit-Pagei and Beit-Anyah, by the Mount of Olives, Yeshua sent two of his talmidim [SUP]2 [/SUP]with these instructions: “Go into the village ahead of you; and as soon as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there that has never been ridden. Untie it, and bring it here. [SUP]3 [/SUP]If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ tell him, ‘The Lord needs it,’ and he will send it here right away.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]They went off and found a colt in the street tied in a doorway, and they untied it. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The bystanders said to them, “What are you doing, untying that colt?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They gave the answer Yeshua had told them to give, and they let them continue. [SUP]7 [/SUP]They brought the colt to Yeshua and threw their robes on it, and he sat on it.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Many people carpeted the road with their clothing, while others spread out green branches which they had cut in the fields. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Those who were ahead and those behind shouted,
“Please! Deliver us!”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP][b][/SUP]

“Blessed is he who comes in the name of Adonai!”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Blessed is the coming Kingdom of our father David!”

and,

“You in the highest heaven! Please! Deliver us!”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP][e][/SUP]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Yeshua entered Yerushalayim, went into the Temple courts and took a good look at everything; but since it was now late, he went out with the Twelve to Beit-Anyah.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The next day, as they came back from Beit-Anyah, he felt hungry. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Spotting in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came up to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it wasn’t fig season. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again!” And his talmidim heard what he said.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]On reaching Yerushalayim, he entered the Temple courts and began driving out those who were carrying on business there, both the merchants and their customers. He also knocked over the desks of the money-changers, upset the benches of the pigeon-dealers, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and refused to let anyone carry merchandise through the Temple courts. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then, as he taught them, he said, “Isn’t it written in the Tanakh, My house will be called a house of prayer for all the Goyim[SUP][f][/SUP] But you have made it into a den of robbers!”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]The head cohanim and the Torah-teachers heard what he said and tried to find a way to do away with him; they were afraid of him, because the crowds were utterly taken by his teaching. [SUP]19 [/SUP]When evening came, they left the city.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]In the morning, as the talmidim passed by, they saw the fig tree withered all the way to its roots. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Kefa remembered and said to Yeshua, “Rabbi! Look! The fig tree that you cursed has dried up!” [SUP]22 [/SUP]He responded, “Have the kind of trust that comes from God! [SUP]23 [/SUP]Yes! I tell you that whoever does not doubt in his heart but trusts that what he says will happen can say to this mountain, ‘Go and throw yourself into the sea!’ and it will be done for him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore, I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, trust that you are receiving it, and it will be yours. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And when you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive your offenses.” [SUP]26 [/SUP][SUP][h][/SUP]
[SUP]27 [/SUP]They went back into Yerushalayim; and as he was walking in the Temple courts, there came to him the head cohanim, the Torah-teachers and the elders; [SUP]28 [/SUP]and they said to him, “What s’mikhah do you have that authorizes you to do these things? Who gave you this s’mikhah authorizing you to do them?” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Yeshua said to them, “I will ask you just one question: answer me, and I will tell you by what s’mikhah I do these things. [SUP]30 [/SUP]The immersion of Yochanan — was it from Heaven or from a human source? Answer me.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]They discussed it among themselves: “If we say, ‘From Heaven,’ he will say, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ [SUP]32 [/SUP]But if we say, ‘From a human source, . . . ’” — they were afraid of the people, for they all regarded Yochanan as a genuine prophet. [SUP]33 [/SUP]So they answered Yeshua, “We don’t know.” “Then,” he replied, “I won’t tell you by what s’mikhah I do these things.”

Then, having done that, ask the Holy Spirit what the whole thing means.

Meggido · Jul 17, 2017

What is the motivation for exercising faith in God?

The WOF movement started by Kenneth Hagin Sr., main motivation appears to be exercising faith to get material blessings in the form of MONEY.

Jesus describes this movement very well in Rev 3.17-

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

God never promised that the cross would not be heavy and the road hard....WOF teaches no personal suffering is ever experienced by those walking with God....I have shut them up when I draw their attention to Hebrews 5.7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

Meggido said:

What is the motivation for exercising faith in God?

The WOF movement started by Kenneth Hagin Sr., main motivation appears to be exercising faith to get material blessings in the form of MONEY.

Jesus describes this movement very well in Rev 3.17-

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

God never promised that the cross would not be heavy and the road hard....WOF teaches no personal suffering is ever experienced by those walking with God....I have shut them up when I draw their attention to Hebrews 5.7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Know why it's called a movement? Because it moves! It's not dead in it's tracks like most unbelieving churches. Its populated by people who read the Word and believe it as it is read

And anyway. Who named you judges over other Christians? That alone puts you into deep disobedience

Magenta · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

You are judging other Christians... Where does that put you?

Meggido · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

We know all about this cult, we lived it for a few years......we went to the defense classes where they taught us to tell people they were into deep disobedience, when they tried to judge us....we saw people die in their homes, instead of goign to a Doctor, for fear of the condemnation of others in the cult, blaming them for not having enough faith...we saw people get filthy rich at the expense of others, fake Holy Spirit moves, fake holy laughter, fake barking like dogs and rooting like pigs and fake tongues adn interpretations , especially if ole Mom and Pop Goodwin never trained you....

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

Magenta said:

Nope I'm not Stating facts in not judging. You can use Websters for that

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

Meggido said:

I went to Baptist churches that were mere crypts. I went to Baptist churhes that were full of the Love of God and people walked in Love. I went to Pentecostal churches that were like the Baptist churches above...Most dead but some lively in Gods Love....Why would WOF churches be different, when they are populated by people just as the Baptist and Pentecostal churches were? Don't judge a church by the hellhole you tried out...Most are quite good!

Meggido · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

Dude please....we lived in Tulsa OK at the time....that ought to be enough for you to understand something....

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

Meggido said:

Well.....I understand that you lived in Tulsa at one time.

Meggido · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

its lost on you then.....and I will not be baited by a WOFER

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

Meggido said:

Wow....I'm not baiting you at all.

When I was first saved I had some experiences with Christians that caused me to decide that Non Christians were more Christian than the Christians....Christians lie steal cheat judge condemn and every other vile thing you can name and hide it behind the guise of Christianity...Non Christians lie steal cheat judge condemn and every other vile thing you can name. And make no bones about it. My Lady was really upset at my observation....I still feel the same way forty three years later...I've lived and worked with miners and truckers and oil workers They had fun in their lives..Deadly fun, but they were honest about it. Then here again come Christians passing judgement based on one experience, judging ALL Christians of that belief. You think I'm baiting? Your generalizations make me want to puke. You sound like the NON Christians that we say are so bad. You sound just like the 'life' that you say you so desperately left behind. You are the unjust judge. There is anger and hatred in your words. Get a grip and get lined up with the Word and let the Word pass judgment. Its not your job In your present stance where are you different from the Non Christians I described above?

As you can see....I am now more than angry.

dcontroversal · Jul 17, 2017

That I don't want any part of it.............time and chance happen unto all and sometimes the answer is no

sevenseas · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

you do not actually know the word of God you purport to represent, do you!

it is BECAUSE people lack judgement, good, sound, BIBLICAL discernment and judgment, that they fall for the ungodly nonsense that is WOF

it is more of a cult than a movement. it has more than enough cult characteristics, including the rabid loyalty of its adherents to qualify as such. of course those that God has mercifully brought to their senses are just as rabid to denounce it but that's another story and one that those still encased, do not want to hear one single word about

if you actually knew the word of God, you would know that we absolutely are to judge the teaching and results of said teaching, that are offered

God will be your judge. we are not. and before you are quick to say that you welcome that, I advise you not to say that as God may take you up on it by your very words. I know that will not stop you.

a person may become involved in something with an innocent heart and I believe God weighs that when we pray. that has happened to many people and they have their eyes opened as they pray for the Holy Spirit to lead them out of falsehood, deception or false teaching etc. thing is, it may be a difficult journey, but one that is not taken alone. Again, God is merciful and will lead us out of deception and will be more than happy to show us what is false.

I know a good number of people here will attest to having been involved in this WOF heresy and became aware of how it contradicted the Bible and how scripture was twisted to suit the false beliefs.

from other threads you have started, and the posts you create in them, the snarking and sarcastic comments to those who try to point out your many errors from scripture and the personal attacks against them, it is most likely safe to say you will continue in much the same manor

this post for those who actually want the truth and wish to abide by the truth, be led in the truth and understand that while God can and does heal, He does not do so on command

it not the faith of a person that determines if God will heal or not. it is the OMNIPOTENCE of God that determines if He will heal or not

despite the proof, the overwhelming proof that most are not healed, WOF continues to say God wants everyone to be healed

do you hear yourselves?

sevenseas · Jul 17, 2017

Meggido said:

it is actually E W Kenyon that started the practice of positive confession with the objective of getting what you confessed

Evangelist E.W. Kenyon (1867–1948) is usually given credit as the originator of Word of Faith teaching.
Kenyon's principal disciple was Kenneth Hagin Sr., the recognized "father" of the Word of Faith movement. Hagin (1917–2003) believed that it is God's will that believers would always be in good health, financially successful, and happy.

Hagin's principal disciple was Kenneth Copeland who, with his wife, Gloria, is the unofficial leader of the Word of Faith movement. While Copeland remains the leader of the Word of Faith movement, several newer mass media Word of Faith preachers have eclipsed him in popularity,

SOURCE from WIKI, but it encapsulates the much larger history that can be gained from research

Locutus · Jul 17, 2017

Wobbly legs = filled with the spirit??

Denadii · Jul 17, 2017

sevenseas said:

you do not actually know the word of God you purport to represent, do you!

it is BECAUSE people lack judgement, good, sound, BIBLICAL discernment and judgment, that they fall for the ungodly nonsense that is WOF

it is more of a cult than a movement. it has more than enough cult characteristics, including the rabid loyalty of its adherents to qualify as such. of course those that God has mercifully brought to their senses are just as rabid to denounce it but that's another story and one that those still encased, do not want to hear one single word about

if you actually knew the word of God, you would know that we absolutely are to judge the teaching and results of said teaching, that are offered

God will be your judge. we are not. and before you are quick to say that you welcome that, I advise you not to say that as God may take you up on it by your very words. I know that will not stop you.

a person may become involved in something with an innocent heart and I believe God weighs that when we pray. that has happened to many people and they have their eyes opened as they pray for the Holy Spirit to lead them out of falsehood, deception or false teaching etc. thing is, it may be a difficult journey, but one that is not taken alone. Again, God is merciful and will lead us out of deception and will be more than happy to show us what is false.

I know a good number of people here will attest to having been involved in this WOF heresy and became aware of how it contradicted the Bible and how scripture was twisted to suit the false beliefs.

from other threads you have started, and the posts you create in them, the snarking and sarcastic comments to those who try to point out your many errors from scripture and the personal attacks against them, it is most likely safe to say you will continue in much the same manor

this post for those who actually want the truth and wish to abide by the truth, be led in the truth and understand that while God can and does heal, He does not do so on command

it not the faith of a person that determines if God will heal or not. it is the OMNIPOTENCE of God that determines if He will heal or not

despite the proof, the overwhelming proof that most are not healed, WOF continues to say God wants everyone to be healed

do you hear yourselves?

I asked Migeddo and I'll ask you...Who are you to judge other Christians....Get the log out of your own eye first.

bluto · Jul 17, 2017

Denadii said:

I'll tell you who denadii? Jesus Christ told us to judge others, that's who. Have you not read what Jesus said at Matthew 7:15-24? I'm not going to quote all of it because I'm sure your capable of reading it for yoursel. "Beware of the fralse prophest who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits etc.

What kind of fruits are we to judge denadii? Is it not what a prophet speaks or when he makes claims as a prophet not only by "foretelling" but by "forthtelling." Look at Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven." Vs22 (and this is where your wof heretical teachers come into play). Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"

What do think Jesus is going to say to them denadii? He is going to tell the four most deadly words in the Bible, "I NEVER KNEW YOU." You ask, "Who are we to judge?" Read Matthew 7:24, "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock." Were acting upon what Jesus Christ Himself said and he commeds those who take them to heart by doing something about those who are sheep in wolves clothing. What are you doing denadii? Instead of protecting the sheep, your protecting the wolves.

Now, do you know where the wof movement got their name, "Word of faith?" They hijacked the name from Romans 10:8, "But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that is, THE WORD OF FAITH WHICH WE ARE PREACHING." You guys even took this verse out of context when the context is clearly talking about how the word of God brings salvation. Just read vs9-15. It's "NOT" talking about having faith to get rich or have a miracle or speak things into existence.

Finally, let's test your judgement since your a part of a movement that puts to shame other churches. Give me one, and I mean just one prophecy from kenneth copeland that came to pass? In fact, give me one prophecy that came to pass from any wof teacher/preacher that came to pass exactly as predicted? You choose the person denadii? Go ahead, I'll wait?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

WHAT DOES THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT TEACH?

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