What is a Christian?
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I agree with Phoenix and so did Jesus.
Matthew 7
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
M
Judging someone's 'fruits' is a subjective affair and not at all accurate, especially if you don't know where they've come from.
And 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?'
That seems to be what I'm trying to say.
And following on from that: 'I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.'
I'd say that it's God who judges such things.
And 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?'
That seems to be what I'm trying to say.
And following on from that: 'I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.'
I'd say that it's God who judges such things.
P
He is but we judge BY HIS Word.
I see you completely looked over the begging of that verse. the who can know it does not mean no one knows it. Jeremiah makes it perfectly clear at how our hearts are nothing but evil.
and the fruits not an accurate reading? really have you understood the Gospel at all? where they came from? it does not matter. for all are the same. If they are truly Christian it does not matter where they came from you can see it by Their Fruit.
let me ask you if you understand the Gospel.
Why did Jesus die maddog?
I see you completely looked over the begging of that verse. the who can know it does not mean no one knows it. Jeremiah makes it perfectly clear at how our hearts are nothing but evil.
and the fruits not an accurate reading? really have you understood the Gospel at all? where they came from? it does not matter. for all are the same. If they are truly Christian it does not matter where they came from you can see it by Their Fruit.
let me ask you if you understand the Gospel.
Why did Jesus die maddog?
important here to distinguish between someone who is saved but isn't taking their walk seriously and someone who is saved and following Jesus.
Think it isn't possible to be saved and not following Jesus? Well then I guess you got a works based salvation- in otherwords that a saved person will do good works and if they don't do good works..either lose their salvation or were never saved.
Anyway,
a christian is someone who is a follower of Christ.. a saved person may not be following Christ and so it isn't right to call them a christian as such.. seeing as it isn't a life style.. yet they are still saved.
That's my 2 cents
Important to distinguish between THE faith-- church membership, bible study, missions work, etc etc.. and SAVING faith.. which is entrusting your salvation with Jesus.
Someone saved and practicing THE faith = christian
Someone saved but not walking after Jesus = saved person
Not popular I know.. but there is an important distinction here
Think it isn't possible to be saved and not following Jesus? Well then I guess you got a works based salvation- in otherwords that a saved person will do good works and if they don't do good works..either lose their salvation or were never saved.
Anyway,
a christian is someone who is a follower of Christ.. a saved person may not be following Christ and so it isn't right to call them a christian as such.. seeing as it isn't a life style.. yet they are still saved.
That's my 2 cents
Important to distinguish between THE faith-- church membership, bible study, missions work, etc etc.. and SAVING faith.. which is entrusting your salvation with Jesus.
Someone saved and practicing THE faith = christian
Someone saved but not walking after Jesus = saved person
Not popular I know.. but there is an important distinction here
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M
We can judge whether or not an action is evil or not.
It sounded more like a rhetorical question. The answer given afterwards was that it is the Lord who knows men's hearts.
Okay, but that's a general statement applying to all of us, but it doesn't help when trying to assess specific individuals.
I meant in a spiritual sense, not a geographical one. For instance, someone who was already an outwardly good person may not show much obvious change. Someone who was once mired in grave sin, may genuinely turn his life around, but still not be as good as the first person. Were someone to judge his fruits they may well write him off as a 'false convert' because they weren't there to see how he was before.
It sounded more like a rhetorical question. The answer given afterwards was that it is the Lord who knows men's hearts.
Okay, but that's a general statement applying to all of us, but it doesn't help when trying to assess specific individuals.
I meant in a spiritual sense, not a geographical one. For instance, someone who was already an outwardly good person may not show much obvious change. Someone who was once mired in grave sin, may genuinely turn his life around, but still not be as good as the first person. Were someone to judge his fruits they may well write him off as a 'false convert' because they weren't there to see how he was before.
It's ok to judge righteously but most of the judging done here is based upon trivial things such as which president you support and what do you think about homosexuality and abortion. You can't judge a person based upon those things alone, particularly not someone sitting on the other side of the world on the internet.
That is where you are wrong when you support evil, then that shows where you stand with God, as Davis said......
Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psalms 139
19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
If you love God you would hate abortion, homosexuality, premarital sex, and every agenda of wicked men like Obama, as well as every other type of evil.
Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psalms 139
19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
If you love God you would hate abortion, homosexuality, premarital sex, and every agenda of wicked men like Obama, as well as every other type of evil.
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I was just pointing out that you implied a Christian when born again was totally santified. We have to remember when talking to people in false doctrine that we don't run so far the other way we leave the truth. I agree with your point, christians don't drink down sin like it's kool aid. What I'm starting to wonder is if christians want any help from anybody, most just say, don't judge me. I might reget saying this but if a brother sees or hears me in sin I would hope they would tell me in love about it, so I hopefully don't let it take hold.
Let God tell you what a true christian, in this way no one can dispute it, unless they think they can rewrite the Bible;
I John 1:5-10 ...This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Ephesian 5:8-14...For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
John 3:3-6 ....Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Galatians 5:17-23- ....This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another
Acts 11:26...And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
I Peter 4: 16 ... Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? .
I John 1:5-10 ...This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Ephesian 5:8-14...For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.John 3:3-6 ....Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Galatians 5:17-23- ....This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another
Acts 11:26...And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
I Peter 4: 16 ... Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? .
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