WHAT IS MOST URGENT?

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Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#1
What do lordship Salvationists claim?

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means one is not saved.

Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation but their teachers pretend to be teachers of grace.

They distort the true gospel of grace and millions of church-goers are deceived.


So let's preach the true gospel to those church-goers who haven't heard the true gospel in order for them to be saved. THIS IS MOST URGENT.

You may post your opinions.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#2
Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,540
793
113
#3
What is heresy is preaching that after you take your sins to Christ and you are forgiven, cleansed of sin, you can still love a certain sin so much that you intend to commit that sin again and again.

It is impossible for a human make himself so sin free that he can create salvation for himself, it is only Christ that can do that with what Christ did on the cross. But to teach that a person saved thru Christ can choose sin is wrong. Teaching something so wrong is very serious, and justice will be served.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#4
What is heresy is preaching that after you take your sins to Christ and you are forgiven, cleansed of sin, you can still love a certain sin so much that you intend to commit that sin again and again.

It is impossible for a human make himself so sin free that he can create salvation for himself, it is only Christ that can do that with what Christ did on the cross. But to teach that a person saved thru Christ can choose sin is wrong. Teaching something so wrong is very serious, and justice will be served.
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,306
3,874
113
#5
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
Those who know take your quote with all of the scripture and understand by the Holy Spirit. This cannot be conveyed into an intellectual debate with a non-believer, and the understanding is true knowledge never what is called so. in error.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,114
3,411
113
#6
To understand Matthew 5:48, look into the Scripture in context........ Matthew Henry said this:

Commentary on Matthew 5:43-48
(Read Matthew 5:43-48)
The Jewish teachers by "neighbour" understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. The Lord Jesus teaches that we must do all the real kindness we can to all, especially to their souls. We must pray for them. While many will render good for good, we must render good for evil; and this will speak a nobler principle than most men act by. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion, but we must not so confine our respect. It is the duty of Christians to desire, and aim at, and press towards perfection in grace and holiness. And therein we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father, 1 Peter 1:15,16. Surely more is to be expected from the followers of Christ than from others; surely more will be found in them than in others. Let us beg of God to enable us to prove ourselves his children.
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
1,185
423
83
#7
What do lordship Salvationists claim?

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means one is not saved.


Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation but their teachers pretend to be teachers of grace.

They distort the true gospel of grace and millions of church-goers are deceived.

So let's preach the true gospel to those church-goers who haven't heard the true gospel in order for them to be saved. THIS IS MOST URGENT.

You may post your opinions.
An unbeliever becomes a born-again saint only by believing the gospel.

Then the believer is judged in this manner when he/she sins:

Paul said the following to the saints at Corinth, "And lest...I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed...Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Corinthians 12:21, 13:5).

Prove by what? By how you have been living.

This is what the Bible teaches.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#8
Those who know take your quote with all of the scripture and understand by the Holy Spirit. This cannot be conveyed into an intellectual debate with a non-believer, and the understanding is true knowledge never what is called so. in error.
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#9
An unbeliever becomes a born-again saint only by believing the gospel.

Then the believer is judged in this manner when he/she sins:

Paul said the following to the saints at Corinth, "And lest...I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed...Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Corinthians 12:21, 13:5).

Prove by what? By how you have been living.

This is what the Bible teaches.
Proving by which standard? Mathew 5:48 or your own subjective standard?
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#10
To understand Matthew 5:48, look into the Scripture in context........ Matthew Henry said this:

Commentary on Matthew 5:43-48
(Read Matthew 5:43-48)
The Jewish teachers by "neighbour" understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. The Lord Jesus teaches that we must do all the real kindness we can to all, especially to their souls. We must pray for them. While many will render good for good, we must render good for evil; and this will speak a nobler principle than most men act by. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion, but we must not so confine our respect. It is the duty of Christians to desire, and aim at, and press towards perfection in grace and holiness. And therein we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father, 1 Peter 1:15,16. Surely more is to be expected from the followers of Christ than from others; surely more will be found in them than in others. Let us beg of God to enable us to prove ourselves his children.
So you don't need Christ to save you?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,307
7,683
113
#12
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
Do you think only those that cease sinning (not possible) are saved?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,306
3,874
113
#13
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
No one who believes Jesus would call Him a liar or a fraud as you intimated here in your retort.

Jesus died for all of our sins, and He walked the earth in a vessel of flesh perfectly fo rall the rest, including me, who are not perfect.

We look to Him for our perfection. This is the work He began in each of us the moment of our repentance and faith in Him was given. Only He will finish the work He began in each of us, and that only on His Great and Glorious D

Perhaps you will understand but if yo do not this is sufficient response for any.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#15
No one who believes Jesus would call Him a liar or a fraud as you intimated here in your retort.

Jesus died for all of our sins, and He walked the earth in a vessel of flesh perfectly fo rall the rest, including me, who are not perfect.

We look to Him for our perfection. This is the work He began in each of us the moment of our repentance and faith in Him was given. Only He will finish the work He began in each of us, and that only on His Great and Glorious D

Perhaps you will understand but if yo do not this is sufficient response for any.
You look to Him for your perfection by grace OR seek to do works according to mathew 5:48 in order to be perfect and prove you have saving faith?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,319
1,463
113
#17
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
Perfect does not mean sinless for starters...also, Matthew 5 is not a Christian passage, but a Jewish command. No Christian was present in Matthew 5.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#18
Perfect does not mean sinless for starters...also, Matthew 5 is not a Christian passage, but a Jewish command. No Christian was present in Matthew 5.
Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,307
7,683
113
#19
Lordship salvationists demand christians to cease sinning in order to prove they have saving faith.
I grasp the point you are trying to make as an inherent flaw in Lordship salvation, yes when you hear phrases "turn from sin" that is a

problem, however those that use those phrases probably do not realize the full implication of what they are stating.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,307
7,683
113
#20
Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?
I really think lordship salvationists do not grasp the point you are trying to make.
I am not sure we can state they knowingly lower the bar... I think they do not see the full implication of what they teach.