What is the basis of our faith?

[BenFTW]

How can we have faith in God for something, if we do not know His will in the matter? On what basis can we have faith in God, be it for deliverance, protection, providence, healing, or any blessing? His will by necessity must be revealed in order to have faith. Without His will we are left with hope. How does faith come to be, if it is an expectation, a believing of something as having been done, if we do not understand God's will?


If you have faith in His existence, faith in His promises, then you should have no problem having faith that He knows and wants what's best for you and trust Him in His wisdom.

I like what you said, and was about to give it a like until I realized the repercussions of what you're saying. Are you saying that people are in there current circumstances because of the sovereignty of God? That a believer is sick, suffering, because God in His wisdom has deemed it best for them?

 

[Lighthearted]

Here's an honest question for those willing to be honest.

If Jesus told you, that you were healed would you believe it? You would probably say yes! I hope so anyway.

But what if Jesus told you, that you could walk on water, would you believe it? You would probably also say yes! I hope so anyway.

At this point, you might think well if Jesus said I could walk on water well there's nothing that would stop me, because He is in control of everything and *I* have nothing to do with it!

Peter thought this too. He figured if Jesus told Him he could walk on water, well he could jump right out and he would have no problems at all. So he did! And for a short time, HE did walk on water.

Until this thing called doubt crept in, what was doubt? Doubt was Peter analyzing with his rational mind, and looking into the world for evidence. He started to hear the waves crashing over him, he started to feel fear that he could drown, and it got bigger and bigger.

Today, so many people would say way to go Peter! That's wisdom brother! God gave you a brain for a reason! And we see this every single day. God has other things in store for us, but we use our "wisdom" to decide whether or not He actually said it.

And this is not faith, this is doubt. This is double-mindedness.

And this is exactly what so many well meaning Christians try to enforce on others - daily.

And their conclusion is well, it must not have been God's will, or else it would have happened.

Because *I* have nothing to do with it.

Even Salvation is being attacked today, "you don't need to believe, because God MAKES you believe."

I also believe Peter took His eyes off Jesus like so many of us do...and when that happens we begin to sink somewhere in our walk. This is why so many Christians fail and slide...but because He loves us, He will finish the work He begins in us. He knows exactly how to take the consequences for our sin and use it to bring us right on back to needing Him.

 

[Lighthearted]

I like what you said, and was about to give it a like until I realized the repercussions of what you're saying. Are you saying that people are in there current circumstances because of the sovereignty of God? That a believer is sick, suffering, because God in His wisdom has deemed it best for them?

Adam and Eve were created immortal in a garden of paradise.
What I'm saying is that there are consequences in this world because there is evil in it. There is a curse in our fleshy veins because of sin. Sickness comes from sin.
God just uses those consequences for our good and/or perhaps someone elses. I call it lessons with blessins'. We create the lesson Ben...He gives us the blessin'.

 

[Lighthearted]

He doesn't always heal...sometimes He chooses to call us home, sometimes He uses us for a purpose through our suffering or our healing.

 

[wolfwint]

How can we have faith in God for something, if we do not know His will in the matter? On what basis can we have faith in God, be it for deliverance, protection, providence, healing, or any blessing? His will by necessity must be revealed in order to have faith. Without His will we are left with hope. How does faith come to be, if it is an expectation, a believing of something as having been done, if we do not understand God's will?

Fellow Christians will say that healing is not guaranteed, that we must know the will and purposes of God (first and foremost). I would ask, sincerely, how anyone can have faith to be healed of God if they are in ignorance to His will, then? What is there to have faith in? If healing is not guaranteed, a promise, then on what basis can a person have faith for it? Are we to conclude then that it is presumptive to have faith to be healed?

Should we then not expect of God to heal us? And for those that do, are they laying before God a request He has never agreed to fulfill? A prayer that is not of faith, conclusively, because it doesn't know His will. Rather it is a request willing to accept no as its answer. How then does a person utilize faith? How does the prayer of faith save the sick(James 5:15) if faith ceases to exist at ignorance to the will of God?

If we believe that healing is not guaranteed, we omit faith. Its very simple. Ironically to state that we must know the will of God in respect to one's own sickness and healing is to state the same thing that the others proclaim as it being God's will to heal. That being, in both cases both parties agree that knowing God's will is the key to its reception.

The difference is that those who do not believe healing is a guarantee, that it is presumptive to have faith to be healed (consequentially, and by nature of the doctrine), have actually placed a noose around the neck of faith, taking its last breath. As the premise is, to not know God's will is to eliminate faith; for what is there to have faith in if God has not made it His word (of which He is faithful to)? What can the sick have faith in, in order to be healed, if they have nothing to take hold of?

They are left, with such a doctrine, with an ever elusive seeking of the will of God, and instead of reaching forth for Jesus' garment they must first ask, "Lord, may I touch your garment?" Respectable, but notice in the story of the woman who believed that touching Jesus' garment would heal her, she didn't ask because she already knew. He had set the precedence. He is the Messiah. As such she was made whole, in accordance with her faith and in knowing His will (it was who He revealed Himself to be, healing all that were sick).

You see, the basis of our faith is God. Our faith is a response to who He is, and who He claims to be. When we understand His heart, His character, His nature, and His promises we respond in faith because He is not a liar (and shows Himself to be faithful). This is why healing must be a promise, if not in word alone, in the character and nature of God (Jehovah Rapha). It is for this reason that we may have faith, because we know His will that is revealed both in Word, and in His nature.

I wish you all the best.

The basis of my faith is Jesus Christ and what he has revealed in his word.

 

[Mo0448]

He doesn't always heal...sometimes He chooses to call us home, sometimes He uses us for a purpose through our suffering or our healing.

You put it best as hard as it can be on our feelings and emotions...sometimes people are even guilt tripped into thinking they just didn't "pray enough" or have "enough faith" or something else that will push them away from God instead of drawing them in...who are we to know God's plans not just in our lives but in the lives of all human beings. To emphasize your point healing isn't always physical; emotional and spiritual healing can also take place when we as people generally look for a physical one. I know this is one of the most difficult truths I've had to come to terms with as a Christian...why some and why not others? Why the physical healing for one's parent and the death for another? In the end I don't think we will know but it just reminds us to put our faith and trust in God he is in control and knows what is best more so than we do.

 

[wolfwint]

How can we have faith in God for something, if we do not know His will in the matter? On what basis can we have faith in God, be it for deliverance, protection, providence, healing, or any blessing? His will by necessity must be revealed in order to have faith. Without His will we are left with hope. How does faith come to be, if it is an expectation, a believing of something as having been done, if we do not understand God's will?

Fellow Christians will say that healing is not guaranteed, that we must know the will and purposes of God (first and foremost). I would ask, sincerely, how anyone can have faith to be healed of God if they are in ignorance to His will, then? What is there to have faith in? If healing is not guaranteed, a promise, then on what basis can a person have faith for it? Are we to conclude then that it is presumptive to have faith to be healed?

Should we then not expect of God to heal us? And for those that do, are they laying before God a request He has never agreed to fulfill? A prayer that is not of faith, conclusively, because it doesn't know His will. Rather it is a request willing to accept no as its answer. How then does a person utilize faith? How does the prayer of faith save the sick(James 5:15) if faith ceases to exist at ignorance to the will of God?

If we believe that healing is not guaranteed, we omit faith. Its very simple. Ironically to state that we must know the will of God in respect to one's own sickness and healing is to state the same thing that the others proclaim as it being God's will to heal. That being, in both cases both parties agree that knowing God's will is the key to its reception.

The difference is that those who do not believe healing is a guarantee, that it is presumptive to have faith to be healed (consequentially, and by nature of the doctrine), have actually placed a noose around the neck of faith, taking its last breath. As the premise is, to not know God's will is to eliminate faith; for what is there to have faith in if God has not made it His word (of which He is faithful to)? What can the sick have faith in, in order to be healed, if they have nothing to take hold of?

They are left, with such a doctrine, with an ever elusive seeking of the will of God, and instead of reaching forth for Jesus' garment they must first ask, "Lord, may I touch your garment?" Respectable, but notice in the story of the woman who believed that touching Jesus' garment would heal her, she didn't ask because she already knew. He had set the precedence. He is the Messiah. As such she was made whole, in accordance with her faith and in knowing His will (it was who He revealed Himself to be, healing all that were sick).

You see, the basis of our faith is God. Our faith is a response to who He is, and who He claims to be. When we understand His heart, His character, His nature, and His promises we respond in faith because He is not a liar (and shows Himself to be faithful). This is why healing must be a promise, if not in word alone, in the character and nature of God (Jehovah Rapha). It is for this reason that we may have faith, because we know His will that is revealed both in Word, and in His nature.

I wish you all the best.

You mentioned that God wants that we get physical healing. Read leviticus from chapter 13 on, even to his folk of Israel he is not promiss health. He gives the priest instructions how to react if somebody has skin deseases.
I trust in God that he is keeping his promisses, but the promiss to live a life in health is not under his promisses.
So why I should trust anybody who claims the opposit?
That was God is saying is important, not what people are claiming which dont know God.
Ore will you claim that you know God? You can only know what he reveals to you in his word, everything else is speculation.

 

[Noose]

So many individuals throughout history believed God would heal them and He did. However if you are correct that healing is dependent upon God's present will and purpose (and this will must be known), then no one, not one, can have faith for healing until they seek God's will in their sickness. Which is contrary to what is revealed in scripture. Especially is the case with those that went to Jesus in faith, and received healing ("your faith has made thee whole"). ....

It is the times and seasons that matter. During Jesus' and the disciples times as was prophesied numerous times, they were followed by signs and wonders but this was only to help the people believe in the message which was most important.
When the prophets said "the lepers will be healed/ the deaf will hear/ the blind will see/ the captives will be set free", they did not mean the physical healing rather they meant the spiritual healing- the spiritual healing does not stop the death of the flesh but the message was that the second death will not have power over them.
So Jesus and the apostles did signs and wonders so that people may believe in the message:

"..and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all nations, then the end will come..."

We are in the end times and in the end times, the only person who does signs and wonders is the antichrist.
We were told, faith as small as the mustard seed can move mountains yet many many believers die after frantic prayers- are you trying to say that they have zero faith?
Nope. Jesus said, when you pray, say " .. Father, let they will be done here on earth as it is in heaven..."

 

[LW97]

There's no salvation without repentance. Here's what repentance is according to the Greek:

[FONT=&quot]3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").[/FONT]

 

[Cee]

There's no salvation without repentance. Here's what repentance is according to the Greek:

3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").

Just curious. How are you relating this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like what you said, and was about to give it a like until I realized the repercussions of what you're saying. Are you saying that people are in there current circumstances because of the sovereignty of God? That a believer is sick, suffering, because God in His wisdom has deemed it best for them?

My grace is sufficient. Sometimes our illness is not for us, it is so we can serve others..

I have known many who suffered through cancer or some other disease and not understand why or what God did until God brought someone into their lives who had the same condition. And God used them to serve that person. many who later came to Christ.

 

[LW97]

Just curious. How are you relating this?

Luke 13:3: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

 

[Cee]

Luke 13:3: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

I know the Scripture, but what are you attempting to say with it?

 

[LW97]

I know the Scripture, but what are you attempting to say with it?

That we must teach what repentance is. Can a person get saved without having realized he's a filthy sinner? I don't think so.

 

[Cee]

That we must teach what repentance is. Can a person get saved without having realized he's a filthy sinner? I don't think so.

Hmm, I don't agree. But thank you for being clearer on your post.

 

[LW97]

Hmm, I don't agree. But thank you for being clearer on your post.

Of course this was a different dispensation, it was still the Old Covenant. But if a person doesn't realize he's a sinner... why would he want to get saved then?

 

[Cee]

Of course this was a different dispensation, it was still the Old Covenant. But if a person doesn't realize he's a sinner... why would he want to get saved then?

Because God is good and kind.

 

[LW97]

Because God is good and kind.

Yeah, true, but those people wouldn't know from what they get saved. God only saves those that trust in the finished work of Christ (John 3:18).

 

[Cee]

Repentance isn't about what we are turning from. It's about Who we are turning toward. Consider Paul... what was his conversion like? The idea we only turn to God because we "have to" is extremely incorrect, but widely taught so I get it. However, in my opinion, it's not Scriptural. Even the definition you gave explains "repentance" is metanoia. This Greek root meta is where we get the English word, "metamorphosis". It's transformative.

Jesus said, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Or in front of you. We can turn away from sin, without turning to God. It's called self-righteousness, but we can't turn to God without turning away from sin.

Now in regards to your Scripture. God saves those who trust the work of Christ. Notice that it's talking about what they are looking toward, adhering to, trusting in. I could explain it deeper, but I think this is enough for now.

Not sure how this lines up with the thread's topic though?

 

[LW97]

Repentance isn't about what we are turning from. It's about Who we are turning toward. Consider Paul... what was his conversion like? The idea we only turn to God because we "have to" is extremely incorrect, but widely taught so I get it. However it's not Scriptural. Even the definition you gave explains "repentance" is metanoia. This Greek root meta is where we get the English word, "metamorphosis". It's transformative.

Jesus said, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Or in front of you. We can turn away from sin, without turning to God. It's called self-righteousness, but we can't turn to God without turning away from sin.

Now in regards to your Scripture. God saves those who trust the work of Christ. Notice that it's talking about what they are looking toward, adhering to, trusting in. I could explain it deeper, but I think this is enough for now.

Not sure how this lines up with the thread's topic though?

Where did I say repentance meant turning from sin?