Whats wrong with the NIV bible?

Emz1066 · Dec 27, 2012

When i very first became a christian i didnt have a proper bible i had Jehovah Witness Bible , i prayed to God that if he wanted me to become a christian i need a bible and a pink one because i didnt like the black ones ( i was at the start ok ) This woman i barely new well i knew her but not like personally she did a girls bible group and i agreed to have it at my house , she came to my house and said she had this strong desire to buy me a pink bible and she was filled with joy and was crying and she got me this bible , she gave it to me and i ask her how did she know i wanted pink and well y'know , this bible has everything i needed at the time i had questions and well it had every guideline there was to help me , this Bible is NIV but apparently its wrong ?

Rock022 · Dec 27, 2012

The way I see it, if you get a popular bible, you can read the Word of God. Those who claim a bible with no errors must have the scriptures in original language. There will be some lost in translation, but the people who translate the bible do their best to give you the closest meaning to the original. You can also find bibles online if you do not understand the scripture.

Indubitably · Dec 27, 2012

The NIV is fine. Some people believe only the King James Version is correct, but that is not true. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. The King James Version, translated about 1611, and the NIV, translated in the 1970's, are both translations from the (Koine) greek. Take it from a Greek, who reads greek and certainly knows English. Both translations are just fine.

Enow · Dec 27, 2012

Emz1066 said:

We can find truths in these modern Bibles like the salvation message and some edification and reproofs, but there are subtle errors that in all respect are outright lies that goes contrary against the rest of the truths in that NIV Bible.

Say for example: 1 Timothy 2:5 citing the man, Christ Jesus as the only Mediator between God and man. We can find that in all modern Bibles including the KJV BUT

Romans 8:26-27 states that the Holy Spirit makes these intercessions directly Himself.

Some modern Bibles have changed the wordings to imply that sounds are being made when this intercession is being done as in groanings (sounds) which words cannot express at the end of verse 26.

Then again some modern Bibles will even switch out the "he" with "the Spirit" without realizing that by doing so, they are making a grammatical error in verse 27.

Example below in the NIV:

Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

So how can the "he" that is seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of ... be "the Spirit" in verse 27? That is a grammatical error. The correct translation in keeping with 1 Timothy 2:5 is in the KJV.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The latter part of verse 26 declares that no sound is being made for this intercessions and the reason why "itself" was used instead of "Himself" will be evident with His help when we read the next verse.

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

This Person that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is why "itself" was used and why no sounds is being uttered for which this intercessions of the Holy Spirit is made because this "he" knows the mind of the Spirit as it is this "he" that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God.

But how do we know it is the Son, and not the Father? Because that is the office of what a Mediator does being before that throne of grace as confirmed in verse 34 if those translators of the NIV has taken that into context for the meaning of verse 26-27.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is important for believers to have the correct translation because we can see how the KJV lines up with the rest of scripture as to why the Son has to make these intercessions directly Himself being between us & the Father.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

No one else can take His role as the Mediator in order for the Father to be glorified in the Son because as the Son makes these direct intercessions to the Father, it is the Son that answers these prayers, therefore the use of the term "itself" is correct because the Son is knowing the mind of the Spirit which is how the intercessions of the Holy Spirit is done by.. by the Son.

That lines up with this scripture as well, explaining how the Father can know before we ask anything in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us and cannot be inbetween us. The role of the Holy Spirit has Him speaking in this wise:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So then how can the Holy Spirit make any intercession when He speaks what He hears?

That would be like God praying back to Himself through the Holy Spirit for which many errant believers seem to think God's gift of tongues can be used as a prayer language, thus believing every spirit that comes over them with their tongues that comes with no interpretation as being of God when believers were warned not to believe every spirit but test them.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world....4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

A neighbor across the street will testify of being a believer until she had the expereince of feeling the "Holy Spirit" coming over her and then she spoke in tongues while reading her Bible in her kitchen by herself. She interpreted that experience to mean that was when she was saved because she got it all at once. ( Not the gosple )

Joyce Meyers will testify to the same experience but say that was God calling her into the ministry. ( that is still believing every spirit & not testing them )

The Holy Spirit has been received by faith in Jesus Christ. Believers cannot receive Him again. Any sensationalisim in the flesh of the spirit coming over those that are already believers that are saved is proof that it is not the Holy Spirit because He dwells within us by faith.

There is a supernatural tongues in the world that is just vain & profane babblings which cannot be interpreted.

Paul left no room for error as he stated clearly what tongues were.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

God's gift of tongues is a foreign language being manifested to speak unto the people.

Those believing every spirit that comes over them, are teaching others to seek to receive the Holy Spirit after a sign so that believers would know they are saved or whatever they are hyping with tongues serving as a sign for, BUT again, Paul explicitly stated that tongues would never serve as a sign for the believers, but tongues were to serve as a sign to the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

So there is a supernatural tongue in the world that is not God's gift of tongues as it can be found in the world's religions, the occults, and cults in christianity thus they speak as the world speak and hear as the world hears with that spirit of error as those led astray by it really do not know what it is, but they try to fit it in the Bible because they want to believe that experience they had was of God when they should not believe every spirit but test them.

Then when you have errant modern Bibles implying that the Holy Spirit really does make direct intercessions Himself and some say with sounds implying the use of God's gift of tongues as a prayer language, then that causes believers to gloss over the rest of the truths in the scripture, failling to see how the KJV kept the meaning of His words for the reproofs necessary as the meat of hsi words to discern good and evil.

As a small leaven leavens into a whole lump, so has small changes in the modern Bibles that has allowed false teachings to be supported.

The groundwork of those that know better do not see the significance of the KJV's rendition that there is no pulling it out from the roots of which this apostasy has grown from because it is glossed over in modern Bibles and thus undiscerned and thus unreproved.

I'd say in that respect that there are a few lies in modern Bibles in regards to our faith & walk with Christ wherein the KJV has not declined from the testimonies of the Son because the source documents are of Antioch from which the disciples that loved Him and His words had kept them so that we are able to have the meat of His words for today when the falling away from the faith is happening and faith is hard to find.

Indubitably · Dec 27, 2012

Enow, I can see how you arrived at some of your conclusions, but they are not all solid. Arguents made by plucking scriptures out of their context, especially their context in the original greek dialects, gets a little risky. The "spirit, Spirit, he and He, that you refer to are entirely different words in the different dialects of the Greek that make up the origanal manuscripts from which the King James was translated.

There were three major dialects in ancient Greece, Aeolic, Doric and Ionic. Each of these were from different tribes, the Aeolians lived in the islands of the Aegean, the Dorians, from the Greek coast of Peloponnesus, including Crete, Sparta and other parts of West Coast Asia Minor. The Ionians settled in the West coast of Asia Minor including Smyma. Hellenistic Greek 'Koine' (meaning Common, also known as Biblical Greek) came from the colonization of Asian Minoans to Egypt and to the Middle East; this is where the language evolved into multiple dialects.

I personally believe it is dangerous to instruct people in a rather dogmantic manner, about issues of scriptural translation, much of which even the King James translators struggled with before reaching agreement on the resulting translation.

People who read alternate translations, NOT Paraphrases, are generally novices in the Word and need to be able to understand the simple truth. They usually are not looking deeply into hair-splitting doctrines.

Perk · Dec 27, 2012

In 500 years when the English language evolves, all of the Bibles we use today will seem like jibberish.

Nautilus · Dec 27, 2012

the NIV is fine

WolfInOxHide · Dec 27, 2012

I believe in NIV there will be things that you will miss, but nothing that would keep you from hearing the story of Jesus and learning how to follow Him.

rauleetoe · Dec 27, 2012

WolfInOxHide said:

agreed..the NIV while not being my translation of choice works for many..has been trusted by many..even seminaries use it..
so this KJV only debate has been long exhausted..if anything more and more people are going to the ESV or NASB..
if i was looking for a true 'translation' I would go to my amplified bible/AMP, I like the common english bible for its simplicity and modern english..and for a dynamic equivalent i really am digging the Voice/thomas nelson.
but lately i have read the bible in spanish..which means i go to my 1909 reina valera and cross reference with a palabra de dio para todos spanish bible(the word of God for everyone translation) although my church uses the 1960, the more commonly available and more popular translation used in spanish today.

psychomom · Dec 28, 2012

Emz1066 said:

Em, I just wanted to add...
please don't ever feel you need to defend wanting a pink Bible, dear heart!

That's the loveliest story of the Lord just reaching out to you with His great love for you!
I think the Holy Spirit was very active in that whole process,
and it's a wonderful part of your testimony of the love of God for you.

That sort of thing happens commonly to new believers, and it's the Lord's way of making Himself very real to you.
And, because God is so kind, and He never changes, things like that will happen all throughout your life. ♥

Go ahead and thank God for your beautiful pink NIV translation.

And read it!
(I make a practice of asking God to open my eyes---my understanding--to what I'm about to read before I open my Bible...just thought I'd throw that out as a suggestion)

love,
ellie

Miri · Dec 28, 2012

I believe that it is possible to miss out by just having one translation of any kind.

I was brought up with the KJV - while I love the richness of the KJV there are also passages that are just so hard to read.
So when I was introduced to the NIV I started to read both of them and it helped so much.

Since then I have acquired a few other translations and often when reading, especially if doing a bible study, I will see what it says in all of them.

If I am just doing a simple devotional then I just use one translation, one which is easy to read which allows me to just focus on God instead of me being
too distracted by trying to get my mind around complicated phrases. I find this especially useful when reading several chapters.

Regardless of what version is used, I personally think it is important to ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and reveal the meaning to you.

Enow · Dec 28, 2012

Indubitably said:

But novices are not the only ones that can be led astray, and the Word of God is a sharp sword to do the cutting as in the reproving. If we dull the edges by changing the meaning of the words in the modern Bibles, then how can anyone cut when the devil will mock by saying, "Did God really say that?"

Example below of the importance of right translation.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. KJV

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. NIV

Those two are not saying the same thing. The NIV is testifying of the Holy Spirit whereas the KJV is testifying of the principle.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. KJV

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. NIV

What is the one thing that Jesus says about those that do not love Him and His words? They would not keep them. What example would that be? By declining from the testimony of the Son.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

And how does this errant translation lead other astray? By the Nicene creed of testifying that it is the Spirit that is the "Giver of Life" and to be worshipped with the Father & the Son.

ALL modern Bibles along with the KJV testify of Jesus being the bread of life that gives life to the world.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. KJV

John 6:33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.” 35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. NIV

Therefore by errant Bible translations, error has crept into the early churches undetected, undiscerned, and thus unreproved.

The fact that they are ignoring the will of God & the role of the Holy Ghost as the reason why the Holy Spirit cannot be worshipped with the Father & the Son is just the branch from this evil tree of dishonouring the Son as NOT being the Giver of Life.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/54623-will-god-role-holy-spirit.html

In closing, scripture will only support that the Spirit is life and when Jesus Christ baptizes new believers with the Spirit, it is then that Jesus is giving us life.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

So the way has been broadened in the worship place and when supernatural phenomenons occur when honouring or worshipping the Holy Spirit, little will believers test the spirits because the event occurred when the spotlight was on the Holy Spirit.

Emz1066 · Dec 28, 2012

But God sent me this one and its NIV ?

Stephen63 · Dec 28, 2012

Emz1066 said:

Read your NIV. Just remember, when it sounds like someone's ranting on about something, that's pretty much what they're doing....... ranting. Some think they're heard for their many words.

meggars · Dec 28, 2012

Enow said:

So...Jesus used the King James Version then ....good to know.

Emz1066 · Dec 28, 2012

from what ive read the book is by satan but that dosent make sense

Enow · Dec 28, 2012

Emz1066 said:

I am sure at the time that God had given it to you that it was sufficient because it had the milk of His words to know about salvation and some edification in our walk with Him.

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

But as we grow in Christ, we need the meat of His words, His actual meaning of His messages and the messages of His disciples if we are to continue in His words to be His disciples in testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son, and by Him, the glory of God the Father, and not be led astray by false teachings that can be derived from small errors in the modern Bibles in being disciples of something else in testifying of and seeking the glory of whatever that other is, which usually leads to bondage.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free....36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

That is what the meat of His words are for, in discerning good and evil in these latter days when faith is hard to find.

So you will have to ask Jesus if you are ready for the meat of His words in the KJV.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

I am certain you are ready when any believer leans on Him for wisdom & discernment in understanding His words as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the King James Bible.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

May you trust Jesus as yoru Good Shepherd to help you & to guide you as you trust Him as your Saviour.

Newluke · Dec 28, 2012

Emz1066 said:

For daily use the NIV is fine, I guess. A lot of theologians did their very best to make that translation possible. But if you intend to REALLY dig into the text you might want to consider buying a KJV too, so you can compare the two translations. There are plenty of sites where you can look up multiple translations of the Bible too. Ofcourse, the ideal situation would be if you could read the original greek and hebrew, that would certainly beat the KJV.

Indubitably · Dec 28, 2012

Enow and anyone else willing to condemn a translation of God's Word. I would only suggest that if your opinion is so strong as to possibly call the very Word of God a fraud, because it's not written in high english.. you should consult an expert in Greek languages. Compared to original greek only, even the King James has errors in translation. I just think you should consider how God might react to your opinion, that is really unfounded by fact.

You just cannot make a solid argument against a translation of the Bible by quoting verses from your preferred translation. Is your opinion based on your personal study of the orignal greek manuscripts, and then comparing that to the KJV and the NIV, or from teaching you've received on the subject? Did someone teach you that the KJV is the "inspired" Word of God? It is but a simple translation.

Enow · Dec 28, 2012

Emz1066 said:

That's being said by extremists in the King James Only beliefs. They are highly prejudiced towards the NIV because of all of the false teachings and apostasies stemming from it.

I was raised by the Ryrie Study Bible which was the NASB the New American Standard Bible for the longest time, but even though I was saved, I was led astray by my church's false teaching and personally by my reading the NASB on several key verses.

This was how I was led astray personally by the NASB.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. NASB

This led me to believe it was a sin for me to be angry. Now in spite of my Sunday school teacher in high school trying to correct me from within the same Bible:

Ephesians 4:26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. NASB

Still, it was enough for me to doubt her correction because this was the words of Jesus. But if I had the KJV, I would never had those doubts.

Matthew 5:But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. KJV

Now how my church led me astray was by making a commitment to Christ in making me Lord of my life. My former church had used the KJV, but had switched out with the NIV.

1 Peter 4:19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. NIV

This verse implies that believers are committed to doing good and not just to their faithful Creator. That would support that apostasy of becoming a religious christian in doing the best you can & following Him as if the power in living the christian life was by keeping that commitment, but not so.

Look at how the NIV had chnaged the message of what the KJV has kept about Him.

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. KJV

This is an entirely different message altogether as Peter testified of how well our faithful Creator is doing in the keeping of our souls while we suffer.

The well doing is on Jesus Christ in the keeping our souls while we suffer.

The NIV has dropped that topic altogether and changed the well doing of our faithful Creator to be about the believer in being committed to Him and to doing good while they suffer. The NIV has declined from the testimony of the Son in how we are to live by faith in the Son of God as our Good Shepherd in living the christian life to follow Him.

The NASB for my personal Bible use was no better.

1 Peter 4:19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right. NASB

The NASB maintained what "commit" had meant and that was "entrust", but still miss the message as if the well doing was about believers doing what is right while we suffer.

The KJV has kept the message of hope that Peter wanted to convey about how well our faith Creator is that we can entrust the keeping of our souls to while we suffer.

The NIV led me into bondage as if I can finish by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit as if by doing the best I can in keeping that commitment, I can work goodness in me and obtain righteousness in making myself good and keeping myself good.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? KJV

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. KJV

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. KJV

Anyway, that is why I rely on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil in these latter days so I can continue in His actual words to be His disciple which is also done by his Grace and by His help, because the modern Bibles support apostasies.

Whats wrong with the NIV bible?

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