When are we saved ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#81
He is out to defeat Calvinism at all costs. Like a few others these past few months
He can’t see anything else he sees all through a Calvin lens. So he can’t see anything else
He is out to defeat Calvinism at all costs. Like a few others these past few months
He can’t see anything else he sees all through a Calvin lens. So he can’t see anything else
I've mentioned other false systems also .
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,193
6,606
113
#82
Not if you want to explain the Gospel . Explain the components of salvation and avoid years of false teaching .
We don't "explain" the Gospel.
The Gospel is simple to understand. God became human flesh, suffered, was crucified, died to pay our sin debt, and rose to life on the 3rd day.

Those words are not difficult to speak or comprehend what the speaker is saying.

It's BELIEVING that spoken Gospel that trips most up.

So We PRESENT the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit does the rest.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#83
He is out to defeat Calvinism at all costs. Like a few others these past few months
He can’t see anything else he sees all through a Calvin lens. So he can’t see anything else
I'd rather you ignore , than these personal attacks . I've asked you politely a few times now and you still keep going . I've argued and attacked false teaching without being personal . I'd ask you to kindly do the same .
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,394
17,670
113
#84
I'd rather you ignore , than these personal attacks . I've asked you politely a few times now and you still keep going . I've argued and attacked false teaching without being personal . I'd ask you to kindly do the same .
We are arguing and attacking YOUR false teaching
I would ask you to humble yourself and stop being the proud person who thinks he knows it all and can’t hear a word people say

People will Continue to call you out unti you

1 stop
2 confess
3 at the lease prove you can have a normal conversation without trying to see Calvinism in everything people say (falsely accusing)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#85
We don't "explain" the Gospel.
The Gospel is simple to understand. God became human flesh, suffered, was crucified, died to pay our sin debt, and rose to life on the 3rd day.

Those words are not difficult to speak or comprehend what the speaker is saying.

It's BELIEVING that spoken Gospel that trips most up.

So We PRESENT the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit does the rest.
I get that . But This thread is more about when are we saved and understanding how we understand and articulate the components of salvation. Among people who are already saved .
We are arguing and attacking YOUR false teaching
I would ask you to humble yourself and stop being the proud person who thinks he knows it all and can’t hear a word people say

People will Continue to call you out unti you

1 stop
2 confess
3 at the lease prove you can have a normal conversation without trying to see Calvinism in everything people say (falsely accusing)
Who voted you as CC freedom of speech police ?
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,394
17,670
113
#86
I get that . But This thread is more about when are we saved and understanding how we understand and articulate the components of salvation. Among people who are already saved .
Who voted you as CC freedom of speech police ?
Same old stuff

Different thread same stuff.

This is mite than freedom of speech. Your still unrepentant
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#88
We don't "explain" the Gospel.
The Gospel is simple to understand. God became human flesh, suffered, was crucified, died to pay our sin debt, and rose to life on the 3rd day.

Those words are not difficult to speak or comprehend what the speaker is saying.

It's BELIEVING that spoken Gospel that trips most up.

So We PRESENT the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit does the rest.
Acts 17.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,667
471
83
#90
We are arguing and attacking YOUR false teaching
I would ask you to humble yourself and stop being the proud person who thinks he knows it all and can’t hear a word people say

People will Continue to call you out unti you

1 stop
2 confess
3 at the lease prove you can have a normal conversation without trying to see Calvinism in everything people say (falsely accusing)
Wanted to hit the like, agree, happy, and winner for this one, lol.
Thanks Brother, all have a blessed day!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
#92
I don't know any Christian who omits, and severs the Gospel. Both His death and resurrection are essential to the Gospel.

We are saved, regenerated, and born again when we hear and believe the Gospel. THE WHOLE GOSPEL. After that, we can talk all day long about sanctification, or how a Christian should walk.

The rest is silliness.
I fully agree Penn, as if the blood shed upon Calvary played no role in salvation, big smiles!

As you stated, it's a package deal, without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, without the resurrection there is no firstborn from the dead.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#93
I fully agree Penn, as if the blood shed upon Calvary played no role in salvation, big smiles!

As you stated, it's a package deal, without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, without the resurrection there is no firstborn from the dead.
Of course ( big smiles ) but my point is that we are not ' saved ' by his death . Perhaps its so obvious it sounds confusing?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#94
Yes after we believe. 1cor 1.21 . Eph 1,13-14
Sorry, you do not have proof that the natural man can discern the things of the Spirit, until after he has been quickened, Eph 2;1, and 1 Cor 2:14.

In both scriptures that you have given, they are referencing people that have already been quickened.

1 Cor 1 Cor 1:21, You are not rightly dividing the salvation scriptures. "Save" in Greek means "deliver". There is a deliverance (salvation) when a newborn babe in Christ,. comes unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God. Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and to whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and their a little.

You are still a babe in Christ that does not have knowledge of the doctrine.

Eph 1:13-14, In Eph 1:1, Paul is directing his words to "the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful ( in Christ Jesus)" and Paul is including himself, also, in verse 12 by saying that "we" should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ (Paul did not trust in Christ until after his conversion on the road to Damascus), and in Acts 9:17 Paul, was filled with the Holy Ghost.

Paul had been taught the old law by the best of teachers, and persecuted the church "with all good conscience", thinking that he was doing God's work, which is evidence that had been born again

They already had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them when they were sealed with the holy spirit of promise.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#95
Sorry, you do not have proof that the natural man can discern the things of the Spirit, until after he has been quickened, Eph 2;1, and 1 Cor 2:14.

In both scriptures that you have given, they are referencing people that have already been quickened.

1 Cor 1 Cor 1:21, You are not rightly dividing the salvation scriptures. "Save" in Greek means "deliver". There is a deliverance (salvation) when a newborn babe in Christ,. comes unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God. Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and to whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and their a little.

You are still a babe in Christ that does not have knowledge of the doctrine.

Eph 1:13-14, In Eph 1:1, Paul is directing his words to "the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful ( in Christ Jesus)" and Paul is including himself, also, in verse 12 by saying that "we" should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ (Paul did not trust in Christ until after his conversion on the road to Damascus), and in Acts 9:17 Paul, was filled with the Holy Ghost.

Paul had been taught the old law by the best of teachers, and persecuted the church "with all good conscience", thinking that he was doing God's work, which is evidence that had been born again

They already had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them when they were sealed with the holy spirit of promise.
Praise God , I am no longer confused by the calvinst paradigm . Until you lose trust in the system you will keep on fighting for it .
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#96
It doesn't say anything about being born again

No one came up with regeneration precedes faith until Augustine .
Eph 2:5, What do you think that "quickened" means? I do not know anything about what Augustine, whoever that is, believes. I use only the scriptures to prove themselves, and not other men's interpretation of them.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#97
Eph 2:5, What do you think that "quickened" means? I do not know anything about what Augustine, whoever that is, believes. I use only the scriptures to prove themselves, and not other men's interpretation of them.
A Jehovah's_Witnesses may never read their founder Charles taze Russell s works but still holds to his doctrines .
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
6,264
5,264
113
#98
A spiritually dead man, cannot reach out a hand to be spiritually saved, 1 Cor 2:14.
Your little Sham-Wow is easily exposed when we read the verse in context.

1 Corinthians
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

This is simply saying that the Holy Spirit is profitable for the man of God to live and grow by. We get the Holy Spirit after we make our decision, not before.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#99
Eph 2:5, What do you think that "quickened" means? I do not know anything about what Augustine, whoever that is, believes. I use only the scriptures to prove themselves, and not other men's interpretation of them.
The new birth . regeneration.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
Luke
14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him,
14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
14:34 Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; [but] men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The last verse you have quoted sums it all up; Only God's sheep (born again elect of God) can hear his voice in understanding it.
The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, cannot discern (understand) the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness

Only the regenerated man will surrender all, and he is already saved.