When did (will) Jesus open the first seal in Rev. 6 and what does it represent?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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He was never found unworthy. He was simply not found right away.

Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

At that time, Christ was not in heaven, in the Earth or under the Earth. Likely he was still ascending up to heaven. As soon as he entered heaven he prevailed to be worthy: Christ "hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
Sixty years and Christ had not yet ascended to heaven? Hmmm.

I don't think it means Christ was not in heaven, but that no mere mortal was found worthy to open the scroll.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Sixty years and Christ had not yet ascended to heaven? Hmmm.



No, not 60 years. I believe John saw the past when he saw the seals being opened just as he saw the past in Revelation 12 when Christ was born.
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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Sixty years and Christ had not yet ascended to heaven? Hmmm.

I don't think it means Christ was not in heaven, but that no mere mortal was found worthy to open the scroll.
Just read and believe what is written, and you will be right!

I hope you know the difference between a vision and reality. Reality is always NOW. Then a minute later history. A vision can be of ANY time.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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He was never found unworthy. He was simply not found right away.

Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

At that time, Christ was not in heaven, in the Earth or under the Earth. Likely he was still ascending up to heaven. As soon as he entered heaven he prevailed to be worthy: Christ "hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
So WHY was He not found? That is the question He asked me?

“John watched a search to find one worthy to open the seals—a search that ended in failure—and that is the reason John wept much: no man was found worthy. However, if you read ahead, you find that I was found worthy to break the seals. Why then was I not found in that first search?”

There can be no doubt that Jesus knew if He were found our not! He said the first search ended in failure: NO man was found. That means Jesus was not found - and He asked me WHY. If we believe John, it goes further, "no man was found worthy - but worthy to take the book and open the seals.

The answer is simple, NO MAN was worthy - including Jesus - to take the book at that moment in time: Jesus had to rise from the dead FIRST - and then He was found worthy.

Would he have been worthy to take the book and open the seals when He was a baby? NO! He had to become the Redeemer first.

Christ has always been "somewhere." Ascending during that search does not fit the script.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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No, it was written on the outside of the book: ONLY the redeemer could take the book and open the seals. Before He rose from the dead, He had not yet completed becoming the redeemer.

Did you not read?
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; y
e are yet in your sins.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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THIS ^ is the FIRST "WOE unto the earth" [@ MID-trib ^ (the bold, above)]

(the FIRST TIME that WOE will be "unto" there--Thus, the 5th and not the 7th Trumpet)
YOU will have to be much clearer in what you are saying. "Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, "
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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Well, that's pretty much what *I* am saying, except for one thing. The "they" in this text speaks of specific persons, rather than (as I see it) 100% of the population left on the earth following "our Rapture," IN THAT, I see *this passage* (speaking of "specific *they*")...

... is IN CONTRAST TO those (in the same time-period/location/predicament) who, IN the trib (provided they HEED Jesus' instruction, He left recorded in His written word) "WATCH ye therefore, AND PRAY ALWAYS, IN ORDER THAT ye may have strength to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT OF [same word!] each and every thing coming [on the earth--throughout the trib years] and to STAND BEFORE [in a judicial sense] the Son of man [His earthly designation]." Luke 21:36



[this is decidedly *distinct* from what Paul further states in 1Th5:10[6] regarding the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY (US): "...THAT whether ye may WATCH *or* whether ye may SLEEP [same "sleep" word as in v.6! (NOT meaning "died/death" here, like in chpt 4!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" (again, a distinct "with" word from the one used in, say, Matt25:10 re: the PLURAL virginS / FEAST (*their* earthly MK entrance)]
So WHO is the specific "they?" If it is a worldwide earthquake, every human will feel it. But some will be hurt. It says those who are in darkness. That to me means all who are not born again.

I think you make too much ado over little:

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Paul is saying, whether we are in the first category, the dead in Christ, or whether in the second category, we will be caught up and not suffer wrath. "obtain Salvation" here means to be caught up. It is how we get to "live together with Him."

Maybe we are agreeing again! ;-)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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No, it was written on the outside of the book: ONLY the redeemer could take the book and open the seals. Before He rose from the dead, He had not yet completed becoming the redeemer.

Did you not read?
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them
(Genesis 3:21)

from the foundation of the world, dude.

declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead
(Romans 1:4)
notice that it is "declared"
not "made" or "become"


dude, you definitely are not going to understand this while you keep blaspheming. God is never unworthy.
when we speak of God we speak of someone outside of time. the I AM -- the eternally present & unchanging.

You have redeemed me, O LORD God of truth
(Psalm 31:5)
how was David's sin removed in 2 Samuel 12:13?
maybe if you meditate in tongues for a while longer your spirit-man will receive some revelation about that.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,565
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maybe you ought to ask yourself if we have anywhere else in the Bible where Jesus opens a scroll?
because we do.
Luke 4. He opens Isaiah and reads from chapter 61 - and says this day the scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.


that's extremely profound - because He stops right in the middle of a sentence in verse 2 and closes the scroll.

to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God
(Isaiah 61:2)
there are ((so far)) two thousand years between "to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor" & "and the day of vengeance of our God"
so even if you are correct that the Almighty God is not worthy to open His own scroll that He Himself sealed, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - indicating that the opening of it is instantly after His taking it up.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,565
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maybe you ought to pay attention to what scripture says:
Behold!
in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb
(Revelation 5:6)
notice anything?
Christ isn't standing '
to the right of the throne' He's in the midst of the throne.
Christ isn't standing '
beside the four living creatures' He's in the midst of them.
Christ isn't standing '
near the elders' He's in the midst of them.


how is He 'in the midst of' the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders?
He's pervading the entire throne room - the glory that filled the temple and is in the center of the pillar of cloud and fire.


this is not about God being found unworthy as you keep blasphemously saying. you need to get that straight before you're ever going to grasp anything else written in the Bible.
this is about the God who hides Himself, revealing Himself. about the mystery kept hidden for ages, which the prophets diligently searched the scriptures for and the angels longed to look into. He was beyond the ability of the mighty angel to find out - until He chose to show Himself.


John weeping is Job 9:33 -- have you sorted that?
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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maybe you ought to pay attention to what scripture says:
Behold!
in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb
(Revelation 5:6)
notice anything?
Christ isn't standing '
to the right of the throne' He's in the midst of the throne.
Christ isn't standing '
beside the four living creatures' He's in the midst of them.
Christ isn't standing '
near the elders' He's in the midst of them.


how is He 'in the midst of' the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders?
He's pervading the entire throne room - the glory that filled the temple and is in the center of the pillar of cloud and fire.


this is not about God being found unworthy as you keep blasphemously saying. you need to get that straight before you're ever going to grasp anything else written in the Bible.
this is about the God who hides Himself, revealing Himself. about the mystery kept hidden for ages, which the prophets diligently searched the scriptures for and the angels longed to look into.
It was the very moment of His ascension into the throne room. Do you deny over 12 scriptures that tell us He ascended to sit at the right hand of the FAther?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,565
10,549
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It was the very moment of His ascension into the throne room. Do you deny over 12 scriptures that tell us He ascended to sit at the right hand of the FAther?
God is never unworthy.
give up your blasphemy, that perhaps your eyes may be opened
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
maybe you ought to ask yourself if we have anywhere else in the Bible where Jesus opens a scroll?
because we do.
Luke 4. He opens Isaiah and reads from chapter 61 - and says this day the scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.


that's extremely profound - because He stops right in the middle of a sentence in verse 2 and closes the scroll.

to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God
(Isaiah 61:2)
there are ((so far)) two thousand years between "to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor" & "and the day of vengeance of our God"
so even if you are correct that the Almighty God is not worthy to open His own scroll that He Himself sealed, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - indicating that the opening of it is instantly after His taking it up.
Neither is there any verse there that shows a 2000 year wait! The goal is to get the book opened so Satan can be kicked off his throne as god of this world. Why would Jesus wait to begin this process? The Godhead had waiting 4000 years. Watermark has been telling us that it should happen "quickly."

Which verse between Jesus getting the book and opening the first seal do you see TIME passing?
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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God is never unworthy.
give up your blasphemy, that perhaps your eyes may be opened
It is an absolute fact of scripture that "no man was found worthy." Do you believe John or not? It's not ME you are disagreeing with, it is JOHN. Are you accusing John of blasphemy?
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them
(Genesis 3:21)
from the foundation of the world, dude.

declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead
(Romans 1:4)
notice that it is "declared"
not "
made" or "become"


dude, you definitely are not going to understand this while you keep blaspheming. God is never unworthy.
when we speak of God we speak of someone outside of time. the I AM -- the eternally present & unchanging.


You have redeemed me, O LORD God of truth
(Psalm 31:5)​
how was David's sin removed in 2 Samuel 12:13?
maybe if you meditate in tongues for a while longer your spirit-man will receive some revelation about that.
Now you are bringing in Adam? What? Another red herring?

Are you saying that Jesus has ALWAYS and forever redeemed mankind - so He really never had to become human and die on the cross?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,565
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It is an absolute fact of scripture that "no man was found worthy."
it says "none" not "no man"

and the important thing is "found" -- because it's God and God alone who is worthy.

it's really clear that you don't have a clue, while you keep saying God is unworthy.


maybe go meditate in tongues some more..? i dunno m8 it ain't proving fruitful to try to correct you.
 
Apr 24, 2021
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maybe you ought to ask yourself if we have anywhere else in the Bible where Jesus opens a scroll?
because we do.
Luke 4. He opens Isaiah and reads from chapter 61 - and says this day the scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.


that's extremely profound - because He stops right in the middle of a sentence in verse 2 and closes the scroll.

to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God
(Isaiah 61:2)
there are ((so far)) two thousand years between "to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor" & "and the day of vengeance of our God"
so even if you are correct that the Almighty God is not worthy to open His own scroll that He Himself sealed, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - indicating that the opening of it is instantly after His taking it up.

Yes, the vision of Isaiah 61:v.1-2 is very profound:

1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the Day of Vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;


Luke 4:v. 17 to 21
17 And there was delivered unto JESUS the book of the prophet Esaias. And when JESUS had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. ... (

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

and what about the rest of the verse? and what about the Day of Vengeance of our God?

DETAILS

Analyzing deeply the Scripture, when JESUS read the book it was yet the beginning of the fifth Day, and as JESUS

said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:v.17 -

The fifth Day was not the Day of Vengeance of our GOD, so JESUS could not read the rest of the verse because it would not be fulfilled in the fifth Day, but now, even now, in this current Day , that is the LORD's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last Millennium, the Millennium of Christ.


NOTE:

The sixth Day ENDED recently, we are living in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, and days of Apocalypse. By the way, John was in the Spirit on this Lord's Day, the seventh Day, - time of Apocalypse- and heard behind Him a great voice, as of a trumpet. 1 Thessalonians 4:v. 16-17 combined wit 1 Corinthians 15:v.51 to 55 and Daniel 12:v. 1-4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel -MICHAEL-, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Amen

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords

Fellow in Christ
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,565
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What? Another red herring?
dude. Alpha and Omega. you should expect that the last book is inextricably connected with the first.

Are you saying that Jesus has ALWAYS and forever redeemed mankind - so He really never had to become human and die on the cross?
do you understand what Genesis 3:15 is?
do you understand how it is that the Lamb is slain before the beginning?

what is God doing, taking a lamb and covering Adam & his wife with new garments made of that lamb? through shedding of its blood?
do you really not get that?
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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it says "none" not "no man"

and the important thing is "found" -- because it's God and God alone who is worthy.

it's really clear that you don't have a clue, while you keep saying God is unworthy.

maybe go meditate in tongues some more..? i dunno m8 it ain't proving fruitful to try to correct you.
Why do you fight so hard over one scripture? Why not just believe it.

You are not trying to correct me, you are trying to correct John.

AMP And I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look into it.

OK, so not a man (Although Jesus WAS a man). Here it is "one." is that better?

But you continually overlook or sidestep the real issue. WHY was Jesus not found in this first search? It is the very question Jesus asked ME? ( I could not answer. For weeks I could not answer. I needed HIS HELP to answer.
dude. Alpha and Omega. you should expect that the last book is inextricably connected with the first.



do you understand what Genesis 3:15 is?
do you understand how it is that the Lamb is slain before the beginning?

what is God doing, taking a lamb and covering Adam & his wife with new garments made of that lamb? through shedding of its blood?
do you really not get that?
Another convenient side step rather and answer a question.

It is common knowledge that God had EVERYTHING planned before Adam was created - even to Jesus being slain (in the plan) before the world was created. This does not mean Jesus did not have to come and die on the cross.

AGain, this does not answer why Jesus was not found in that first search. Since you seem to KNOW that my answer is wrong, please, TELL US WHY!