When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child

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phil112

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2014
3,885
78
0
#1
That scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the subject of this thread.
Seems like so much dissension is caused by a lack of spiritual maturity. So few people are going to the effort to become a man and put away childish things. Paul told Timothy to "Lay hands suddenly on no man", which means pick someone who is mature, someone who is stable in scripture and faith.
Our society, and indeed the world, is not far behind, used to value the senior and his experience and knowledge/wisdom. The bible in many places does the same. We are urged to study to show ourselves approved unto God. Study isn't something you do in one reading session. It takes time.

There are a lot of youngsters, and I'm not talking about teenagers, that are but infants in the Lord. I know what it is because I too came from that position. I also had a hard time recognizing it. These folks would do well to study that subject. Learning isn't the same thing as knowledge and wisdom. Understanding doesn't only come by reading a book.

A lot of you young folks show a lot of disrespect for your elders. You are in need of milk, yet you feel compelled to attempt someone that is further along in the word than you are.

I don't know how many of you have thought of this in that light, but it is something that needs to be understood and addressed. There are a lot of things available to help. This is something that I would imagine almost every church has gone thru. It is difficult to instruct someone who knows it all. Indeed, it gets to the point where a sharp retort, rather than consider the source and heed it, is immediately attacked as being unchristian-like.
In fact, the bible tells us to do just that if necessary. Too many folks have been taught something and refuse to examine it by light of bible, or, just as bad, has read the bible, came to an erroneous conclusion, and refuse to take counsel on the proper meaning.

It is not a positive thing to be someone who can't take advice or correction. Ignoring God's word to try to make a point only makes you look bad. When I first got saved I read my bible 3 to 6 hours a day. I actually shut my shop down at noon and came home to read.(there was a reason for that but I won't get into it right now)
I did this for almost a year. After about a year and a half my dad told me that I knew more about the bible than the congregation that sat in the pews on sunday. I couldn't believe that and told him so. He insisted that it was true, and as it turns out, it was.
Most people go to church on sunday and that's the only time they crack open their bible. However, that did not mean that I had more understanding than all of them. I was aware of that tho. My dad and the elders I fellowshipped with demonstrated their sagacity to me and it took me a long time to speak up in discussions.
It is unfortunate that some folks don't have the same timidity.

There is no dishonor in recognizing that someone has more experience in areas than you do. There is much wisdom in the word and it is all meant for our edification and spiritual transformation and growth.
We are told that if we would judge ourselves we would have no need to be judged by others. Yet, so many people don't and then they get all out of sorts when someone does judge them.

Just something that, if heeded and understood, will make us a closer group.
 
Jul 30, 2015
116
1
0
#2
No point listning to older people if they have no clue what there talking about. and yor first part lay hands on noe quickly.

Why you think it means what you say. Did you look up the Greek? and break it down? If you did please show it. If you never how did you get to that conclusion. Thanks.

PS And I so get what your saying here. This place is full of it.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#3
This is completely right what you are saying here and I like reading your posts as they come from real world witnessing and personal experience. You then apply that with what the bible really says to show how God's word is to be properly used.

I see some try to use the word of God to explain things they have never themselves witnessed personally or gone through, and therefore their testimony holds no water in sound doctrine.

Most of the people that I see speak like they are all knowledgeable in the word and can not be taught nothing as they know it all already is from those who went to bible college or seminary school for 4 to 6 years. If they think studying under another person for only 4 to 6 years will bring all biblical knowledge to them needs to read more and listen to more true by the word pastors. For I know many that have been in the word for 20+ years and they say they are still learning !!!

That is why in another thread I said those who believe in the security of their salvation (eternal security, osas) should not put down and condemn those who don't. Because the truth could be that the Holy Spirit just has not revealed the falling away or departing from the faith to them, it does not make them or the other false teachers.

They must put aside their childish remarks and false statements that have been repeatedly asked by others to please stop.

They do not know our hearts as we do have assurance of receiving salvation from the Lord as they do, but the difference is we know one can not walk away from the faith and still have eternal life both.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#4
No point listning to older people if they have no clue what there talking about. and yor first part lay hands on noe quickly.

Why you think it means what you say. Did you look up the Greek? and break it down? If you did please show it. If you never how did you get to that conclusion. Thanks.

PS And I so get what your saying here. This place is full of it.

You do not need the Greek to know what is being said in 1 Timothy 5:22.

It is clear in the context of what is being said, as Paul is telling Timothy to not ordain just anybody, for if they continue to be sinful in their lifestyle then he will be just as guilty of those sins for placing that person as a minister over others.

In other words those who believe they can continue to live everyday in a sinful state are not and should not be appointed as a minister. Their conduct will be judged harsher then just the standard believer for they are to be the overseers to make sure others are walking properly in the faith.

If they are showing and telling others that committing sin everyday is fine then they are corrupting others by their leadership, for we are to stand up and defend the ways of the Lord and show it in our conduct/actions. Those who are disobedient to His teachings are not to be ministers !!!
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
13
0
#5
In the first half of the 90's someone told me that someone said, how does Ronnie (me) know more than the pastor, I know of your hunger for the word. :)
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#6
That scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the subject of this thread.
Phil, I liked your post and there was certainly a lot of wisdom contained within it, but that's really not what Paul was addressing in this passage of scripture. Instead, he was contrasting the gifts of the Spirit which are temporal with love which is eternal. IOW, there will be a time when "childish" things such as prophesying will no longer be needed in that the reality of being with Christ will render it unnecessary. When it comes to love, however, that will last throughout eternity.
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#7
Actually Jesus tended to favor the child-like mind over the wise old man mentality.

Matthew 18:3 “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children..."

And let's not forget Matthew 21:12-16 where the elders were scolding the children for singing hosanna on Christ's entry into the city only to have Christ scold the elders. The elders there thought the kids unruly and disrespectful, possibly blasphemous, but it turns out they were the ignorant ones in that scenario.

Granted, sometimes it is the youth, but the older generation are not immune and should be kept in check as well.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#8
Actually Jesus tended to favor the child-like mind over the wise old man mentality.

Matthew 18:3 “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children..."

And let's not forget Matthew 21:12-16 where the elders were scolding the children for singing hosanna on Christ's entry into the city only to have Christ scold the elders. The elders there thought the kids unruly and disrespectful, possibly blasphemous, but it turns out they were the ignorant ones in that scenario.

Granted, sometimes it is the youth, but the older generation are not immune and should be kept in check as well.
That passage of Jesus saying unless you become like the children is in reference to being loving and obedient.
He is initially saying that unless you are loving and obedient to Him then you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#9
yeah, I knew that first verse was stretching it a bit, but that other example's legit.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#10
yeah, I knew that first verse was stretching it a bit, but that other example's legit.
Yes we are to respect our elders but that does not mean we are to always agree with them, nor does it mean those who have been in the word longer are more knowledgeable, wiser, or have more truth.

How do you think the original 11 Apostles plus Matthias (Judas replacement) felt when Apostle Paul called them out on things ???

They walked personally with the Lord and were taught, but Paul came in later and called a couple of them out for improper behavior and misuse of the gospel.
 

Is

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
1,934
16
0
#11
That scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the subject of this thread.
Seems like so much dissension is caused by a lack of spiritual maturity. So few people are going to the effort to become a man and put away childish things. Paul told Timothy to "Lay hands suddenly on no man", which means pick someone who is mature, someone who is stable in scripture and faith.
Our society, and indeed the world, is not far behind, used to value the senior and his experience and knowledge/wisdom. The bible in many places does the same. We are urged to study to show ourselves approved unto God. Study isn't something you do in one reading session. It takes time.

There are a lot of youngsters, and I'm not talking about teenagers, that are but infants in the Lord. I know what it is because I too came from that position. I also had a hard time recognizing it. These folks would do well to study that subject. Learning isn't the same thing as knowledge and wisdom. Understanding doesn't only come by reading a book.

A lot of you young folks show a lot of disrespect for your elders. You are in need of milk, yet you feel compelled to attempt someone that is further along in the word than you are.

I don't know how many of you have thought of this in that light, but it is something that needs to be understood and addressed. There are a lot of things available to help. This is something that I would imagine almost every church has gone thru. It is difficult to instruct someone who knows it all. Indeed, it gets to the point where a sharp retort, rather than consider the source and heed it, is immediately attacked as being unchristian-like.
In fact, the bible tells us to do just that if necessary. Too many folks have been taught something and refuse to examine it by light of bible, or, just as bad, has read the bible, came to an erroneous conclusion, and refuse to take counsel on the proper meaning.

It is not a positive thing to be someone who can't take advice or correction. Ignoring God's word to try to make a point only makes you look bad. When I first got saved I read my bible 3 to 6 hours a day. I actually shut my shop down at noon and came home to read.(there was a reason for that but I won't get into it right now)
I did this for almost a year. After about a year and a half my dad told me that I knew more about the bible than the congregation that sat in the pews on sunday. I couldn't believe that and told him so. He insisted that it was true, and as it turns out, it was.
Most people go to church on sunday and that's the only time they crack open their bible. However, that did not mean that I had more understanding than all of them. I was aware of that tho. My dad and the elders I fellowshipped with demonstrated their sagacity to me and it took me a long time to speak up in discussions.
It is unfortunate that some folks don't have the same timidity.

There is no dishonor in recognizing that someone has more experience in areas than you do. There is much wisdom in the word and it is all meant for our edification and spiritual transformation and growth.
We are told that if we would judge ourselves we would have no need to be judged by others. Yet, so many people don't and then they get all out of sorts when someone does judge them.

Just something that, if heeded and understood, will make us a closer group.
Too many folks have been taught something and refuse to examine it by light of bible,
So many times I read a post and it's as if I can hear them saying "Well you know what preacher so-and-so says". The main problem with churches is that the people either get preached to by their ministers or they go into Sunday school and someone preaches at them,

But they only have an "hour" to get it, so just shut up and listen! Oops sorry plus an hour for church makes two, heck that should be enough for anyone for the week.

Yeah when pigsfly.gif
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#12
That scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the subject of this thread.
Seems like so much dissension is caused by a lack of spiritual maturity. So few people are going to the effort to become a man and put away childish things. Paul told Timothy to "Lay hands suddenly on no man", which means pick someone who is mature, someone who is stable in scripture and faith.
Our society, and indeed the world, is not far behind, used to value the senior and his experience and knowledge/wisdom. The bible in many places does the same. We are urged to study to show ourselves approved unto God. Study isn't something you do in one reading session. It takes time.

There are a lot of youngsters, and I'm not talking about teenagers, that are but infants in the Lord. I know what it is because I too came from that position. I also had a hard time recognizing it. These folks would do well to study that subject. Learning isn't the same thing as knowledge and wisdom. Understanding doesn't only come by reading a book.

A lot of you young folks show a lot of disrespect for your elders. You are in need of milk, yet you feel compelled to attempt someone that is further along in the word than you are.

I don't know how many of you have thought of this in that light, but it is something that needs to be understood and addressed. There are a lot of things available to help. This is something that I would imagine almost every church has gone thru. It is difficult to instruct someone who knows it all. Indeed, it gets to the point where a sharp retort, rather than consider the source and heed it, is immediately attacked as being unchristian-like.
In fact, the bible tells us to do just that if necessary. Too many folks have been taught something and refuse to examine it by light of bible, or, just as bad, has read the bible, came to an erroneous conclusion, and refuse to take counsel on the proper meaning.

It is not a positive thing to be someone who can't take advice or correction. Ignoring God's word to try to make a point only makes you look bad. When I first got saved I read my bible 3 to 6 hours a day. I actually shut my shop down at noon and came home to read.(there was a reason for that but I won't get into it right now)
I did this for almost a year. After about a year and a half my dad told me that I knew more about the bible than the congregation that sat in the pews on sunday. I couldn't believe that and told him so. He insisted that it was true, and as it turns out, it was.
Most people go to church on sunday and that's the only time they crack open their bible. However, that did not mean that I had more understanding than all of them. I was aware of that tho. My dad and the elders I fellowshipped with demonstrated their sagacity to me and it took me a long time to speak up in discussions.
It is unfortunate that some folks don't have the same timidity.

There is no dishonor in recognizing that someone has more experience in areas than you do. There is much wisdom in the word and it is all meant for our edification and spiritual transformation and growth.
We are told that if we would judge ourselves we would have no need to be judged by others. Yet, so many people don't and then they get all out of sorts when someone does judge them.

Just something that, if heeded and understood, will make us a closer group.
Two thoughts:
1. I think the older we get, the less likely we are to believe we've matured.
2. Nice try. As you can tell, it didn't work. But, nice try! Honest.
 

Is

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
1,934
16
0
#13
This is completely right what you are saying here and I like reading your posts as they come from real world witnessing and personal experience. You then apply that with what the bible really says to show how God's word is to be properly used.

I see some try to use the word of God to explain things they have never themselves witnessed personally or gone through, and therefore their testimony holds no water in sound doctrine.

Most of the people that I see speak like they are all knowledgeable in the word and can not be taught nothing as they know it all already is from those who went to bible college or seminary school for 4 to 6 years. If they think studying under another person for only 4 to 6 years will bring all biblical knowledge to them needs to read more and listen to more true by the word pastors. For I know many that have been in the word for 20+ years and they say they are still learning !!!

That is why in another thread I said those who believe in the security of their salvation (eternal security, osas) should not put down and condemn those who don't. Because the truth could be that the Holy Spirit just has not revealed the falling away or departing from the faith to them, it does not make them or the other false teachers.

They must put aside their childish remarks and false statements that have been repeatedly asked by others to please stop.

They do not know our hearts as we do have assurance of receiving salvation from the Lord as they do, but the difference is we know one can not walk away from the faith and still have eternal life both.
People fall hook, line and sinker for a seminary because they purport themselves as teaching the truth and the people that study with them are not being told the truth that they are teaching people from a corrupted Greek text.
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#14
People fall hook, line and sinker for a seminary because they purport themselves as teaching the truth and the people that study with them are not being told the truth that they are teaching people from a corrupted Greek text.
So you have been to every seminary and know this is fact?
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#15
That passage of Jesus saying unless you become like the children is in reference to being loving and obedient.
He is initially saying that unless you are loving and obedient to Him then you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
It is actually referring to child like trust, child like faith and child like innocence. It speaks of being sure and secure in the unfailing promise(s) of God in Jesus Christ just as a young child is comforted and secure in the care of loving parents. It also speaks of child like humility. A young child has yet to trip over him/herself because of pride and ego because they have yet to develop the means or the desire to reply upon anything but a loving father .. and mother, of course.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#16
typo : ... they have yet to develop the means or the desire to rely
 

phil112

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2014
3,885
78
0
#17
No point listning to older people if they have no clue what there talking about. and yor first part lay hands on noe quickly.

Why you think it means what you say. Did you look up the Greek? and break it down? If you did please show it. If you never how did you get to that conclusion. Thanks.

PS And I so get what your saying here. This place is full of it.
Stevie, I would encourage you to proof read your posts before you hit the send button. It is hard to make sense from someones words if they aren't clear.
However, I'll make an effort. If I'm wrong, just make a more coherent post so I can understand better please.
First, your post seems to epitomize mine.
Second, those words are plain scripture, I didn't have to have someone explain them to me.

Phil, I liked your post and there was certainly a lot of wisdom contained within it, but that's really not what Paul was addressing in this passage of scripture. Instead, he was contrasting the gifts of the Spirit which are temporal with love which is eternal. IOW, there will be a time when "childish" things such as prophesying will no longer be needed in that the reality of being with Christ will render it unnecessary. When it comes to love, however, that will last throughout eternity.
I used that passage for the purposes of this topic. Altho it is true that isn't how Paul meant it, I did those scriptures no harm by using them for this. Many scriptures can be used for, and have, meaning for more than one instance.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#18
I used that passage for the purposes of this topic. Altho it is true that isn't how Paul meant it, I did those scriptures no harm by using them for this. Many scriptures can be used for, and have, meaning for more than one instance.
I only mentioned the contextual meaning of Paul's words in that passage because you began your post by saying:

phil112 said:
That scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the subject of this thread.
IOW, seeing how "that scripture" is the subject of this thread, I felt it only right to explain what "that scripture" actually means in context. Again, I found a lot of wisdom in your OP, but I'm a stickler for reading the Word in its actual context.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,510
1,512
113
#19
I only mentioned the contextual meaning of Paul's words in that passage because you began your post by saying:

IOW, seeing how "that scripture" is the subject of this thread, I felt it only right to explain what "that scripture" actually means in context. Again, I found a lot of wisdom in your OP, but I'm a stickler for reading the Word in its actual context.
Amen to that....to just hang scripture on a point that one wants to make without considering context has led to many errors being propagated as truth! Having said that, the word is layered and deep and many truths can be gleaned from the word and or a single verse of scripture (in context that is)
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#20
It is actually referring to child like trust, child like faith and child like innocence. It speaks of being sure and secure in the unfailing promise(s) of God in Jesus Christ just as a young child is comforted and secure in the care of loving parents. It also speaks of child like humility. A young child has yet to trip over him/herself because of pride and ego because they have yet to develop the means or the desire to reply upon anything but a loving father .. and mother, of course.
The part you continue to leave out though is that a loving child will obey their parents.