When the body dies, what happens to the spirit?

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Mar 2, 2019
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#41
But wait my friends:

JESUS said: Let the dead bury their dead. Matt.8:v.22

Daily in whole world the dead bury their dead. The question is: Who, among all the population of the earth, are alive? Who? Specificaly who?

And more one example:

Revelation 3:v.1 - And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

There is another interesting question to do: What is spirit in accord Scriptures, the Word of God, the Word of Truth?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,128
2,349
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#42
Yes, it is, ...do the saved or unsaved go to Hades (rhetorical). therefore, they've been judged, the verdict has been determined, obviously (and this without the Books being opened)? Lazarus & the rich man story was an allegory, don't confuse fabrication with reality.
No, the rich man and Lazarus is not an allegory, but a real event. You and others have to force it to be a parable. Parables use symbols to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus use the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, mentions the prophets, Lazarus' father and his five brothers and the real place of Hades.

If you read it in it's literal context, it means exactly what it says. Those of you who claim it to be a parable, have to ignore the literal meaning and that because it destroys your belief. However, we don't only have the rich man and Lazarus as proof, for I listed a couple of other scriptures which demonstrate that the spirit is conscious and aware after the death of the body and that the unrighteous begin their punishment as soon as their bodies dies.

When the believer in Christ dies, their spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord.

When the unsaved die, they go down into Hades, the same place the rich man went, until the resurrection which takes place at the end of the thousand years.

Everyone who does not believe is already condemned and the wrath of God rests upon them. And like the rich man, they will be in torment in flame until the time of the great throne judgment.

You guys are amusing! We give you proof citing the rich man and Lazarus and you call it a parable and then say, "show us proof." When all your doing is getting rid of the proof that we already supplied.

"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

The above is speaking about the living who have not believed. As long as a unbeliever remains in that unbelieving state, they are already condemned. Don't argue with me, just look at the scripture above, or do you want to allegorize that as well?

All you and others are doing is teaching false doctrines.

Every person on the earth today who has not believed is condemned, until or if that person turns to Christ. If they don't and die in that state they remain condemned.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,128
2,349
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#43
Jesus was in the grave 3 days, and walked on earth for 40 more days before ascending to heaven. How in the world could the thief be in paradise before Christ, was even raised for one, and seated on his throne for two.
Jesus body was in the tomb for 3 days, but his spirit went down into Sheol/Hades, the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were, as well as the rest of the OT saints.

The reference to "paradise" is referring to that place of comfort where Lazarus and Abraham were, not heaven. If you can remember correctly, when Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary Magdalena, Jesus told her not to hang on to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father, meaning that he had not yet ascended to heaven, which means that place referred to as paradise was not heaven. The spirits of both Jesus and the thief were in Hades in that place of comfort/paradise.

How in the world is the Lazarus parable real, name me one thing? Will the righteous be communicating with the damned while in Abraham's bosom? Will the damned be asking for water when logistically it's impossible to offer them some? How will one realm visually see someone in the other realm, for who would want to watch their torment?

Words can't express how wrong that you are!
On the contrary, the word of God confirms how right I am.

In answer to your question, if you read the event in its plain literal meaning, obviously, Abraham and the rich man were having a conversation. For the context states that the place where Abraham and Lazarus were was divided by a great chasm so that no one could pass over from either side. What you're doing is ignoring the literal information given within the context and assigning some symbolic meaning and thereby distorting it.

I don't have to name just one thing, but everything in the context demonstrates that Jesus was revealing a literal event, with literal people, which He was aware of prior to His incarnation. There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to apply a parabolic meaning. It is by force that you and others interpret it as a parable. For if you just read it in its plain literal sense, it means what it says.

Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus does not read like a parable. For it uses the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, mentions the prophets, the rich man's father and his five brothers, as well as the real location of Hades. Parables don't do that.

=========================================================

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#44
Jesus body was in the tomb for 3 days, but his spirit went down into Sheol/Hades, the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were, as well as the rest of the OT saints.

The reference to "paradise" is referring to that place of comfort where Lazarus and Abraham were, not heaven. If you can remember correctly, when Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary Magdalena, Jesus told her not to hang on to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father, meaning that he had not yet ascended to heaven, which means that place referred to as paradise was not heaven. The spirits of both Jesus and the thief were in Hades in that place of comfort/paradise.



On the contrary, the word of God confirms how right I am.

In answer to your question, if you read the event in its plain literal meaning, obviously, Abraham and the rich man were having a conversation. For the context states that the place where Abraham and Lazarus were was divided by a great chasm so that no one could pass over from either side. What you're doing is ignoring the literal information given within the context and assigning some symbolic meaning and thereby distorting it.

I don't have to name just one thing, but everything in the context demonstrates that Jesus was revealing a literal event, with literal people, which He was aware of prior to His incarnation. There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to apply a parabolic meaning. It is by force that you and others interpret it as a parable. For if you just read it in its plain literal sense, it means what it says.

Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus does not read like a parable. For it uses the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, mentions the prophets, the rich man's father and his five brothers, as well as the real location of Hades. Parables don't do that.

=========================================================

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
Utterly atrocious exegesis that words can't express!
I would love to rebuttal, but have not a clue where to begin?
...just because you read it literally, means that it is literal, ....despite all the logistics being completely implausible???
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#45
Jesus body was in the tomb for 3 days, but his spirit went down into Sheol/Hades, the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were, as well as the rest of the OT saints.

The reference to "paradise" is referring to that place of comfort where Lazarus and Abraham were, not heaven. If you can remember correctly, when Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary Magdalena, Jesus told her not to hang on to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father, meaning that he had not yet ascended to heaven, which means that place referred to as paradise was not heaven. The spirits of both Jesus and the thief were in Hades in that place of comfort/paradise.



On the contrary, the word of God confirms how right I am.

In answer to your question, if you read the event in its plain literal meaning, obviously, Abraham and the rich man were having a conversation. For the context states that the place where Abraham and Lazarus were was divided by a great chasm so that no one could pass over from either side. What you're doing is ignoring the literal information given within the context and assigning some symbolic meaning and thereby distorting it.

I don't have to name just one thing, but everything in the context demonstrates that Jesus was revealing a literal event, with literal people, which He was aware of prior to His incarnation. There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to apply a parabolic meaning. It is by force that you and others interpret it as a parable. For if you just read it in its plain literal sense, it means what it says.

Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus does not read like a parable. For it uses the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, mentions the prophets, the rich man's father and his five brothers, as well as the real location of Hades. Parables don't do that.

=========================================================

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
(i'm re-posting because I got cut-off previous post)

Utterly atrocious exegesis that words can't express!
I would love to rebuttal, but have not a clue where to begin?
...just because you read it literally, means that it is literal, ....despite all the logistics being completely implausible???
...not to mention the parable is not even about eschatological times! Jesus is emphasizing the imminency of repenting when the opportunity is there, and that there are no excuses, for all the evidence for the need to repent and to believe, is right before us.
Two follies in one, you took the passage out of context, and you misinterpreted the obviously allegorical logistics of the plot.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#46
The world is a big place. Not everybody goes to the same place when they leave their body. I believe there are two of us one for the flesh and one for the spirit. One of us dies and goes back to dust the other continues living at a place slightly higher (toward heaven) or slightly lower (toward death and hades) than where we were on earth when we die but those left behind cannot see us. These realms are earth like realms that have the same appearance as earth. Some of us continue living without even realizing at the outset that we died while others are resting until the resurrection. This means that our spirit has a multidimensional state of being. We can be at multiple locations at the same time. Part of the blessing about the great wedding banquet in the sky is that this is at a time and place where all these multidimensional roads meet and we will become aware of all of our experiences we had in these other places and these experiences will converge into a great reunion with all our loved ones. What an exciting time! Can't wait!

What you wrote above has nothing to do with the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, but with satanic literatures of the spiritualist or spiritists.

Reading your post above we see clearly the disguised, and stealthy, and astute, shrwed, sneaky, crafty, deceiver, deceitful, subtle, dishonest, false, cynic, hipocrite and liar spirit of Satan, trying to deceive them which post here. You belong to a legion of demons which rise up out of the blackness of the darkness to scatter their satanic rubbish that kills the souls and push them into the hells's fire through their demonic teachings.

You are a spiritist, a follower of the esoteric doctrine invented by demons, sons of Devil. We can see the spirit of Satan within you, trying to deceive the readers here with his satanic doctrine of spiritism.

I must remind you what JESUS said to those on his left hand: Mat.25: v.41 - Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.

Get behind us, Satan! You are a stumblingblock in the path of a true Christian people, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective.

Now, even now, henceforwards, you, Satan, you will be cast down into the bottomless pit that you should deceive the nations no more.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#47
some scripture and some personal experience. "flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit". "he who believes will never die". "God is love". Jesus appeared to the 500 at the same time. Jesus walked through walls when he reappeared on earth. The story of rich man who died and the angels carried him away. "I will be in the heart of the earth for 3 days"
You quote some portions of Scriptures by your disguised spirit but the Word of God does not give support for doctrines of demons, by the contrary, the Word of God condemns them, as the doctrines of the spiritists from which you are one here .
Get behind us, Satan! You are a stumblingblock in the path of a true Christian people, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
1,314
1,135
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#48
Throughout the Word from Genesis we are reminded that to die for believing folks is simply going to sleep.

We know in the NT that first the dead in Christ will be taken up to Him followed by those yet in the flesh and living...

How many times have we all seen the letters, R.I.P? They mean reat in peace and they are inscribed on mdany tombstones of many believers who have gone to sleep with our fathers. No mystery; until Jesus, Yeshua, returns, all who died in Christ are asleep.

I am sorry for the passing of your wife's Grandmother, but know she is at peace...God bless you.
Why did Paul say he would rather be absent from the body, and present with the Lord then?
And also, Jesus said to the their on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise."
So our physical bodies are asleep until the resurrection but we ourselves are with the Lord.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#49
Why did Paul say he would rather be absent from the body, and present with the Lord then?
And also, Jesus said to the their on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise."
So our physical bodies are asleep until the resurrection but we ourselves are with the Lord.
I think Paul expected to immediately go directly to God.
Another case is Stephen's death. He saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God as his spirit left his body.

So this is what I have been thinking due to what I have neen reading. Those in Christ never die nor experience death. In order for the Christians body to die his spirit must leave it. Just a thought not trying to create a doctrine or a teaching.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
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#50
My wife's grandmother died recently, and there is now some debate between family members as to whether you go immediately to be with Christ of if you sleep until the resurrection.

After doing some Bible study, I want to say you go immediately to Christ, but I am honest enough to say I am biased in the matter, and could be reading my own desires into the scriptures.
We reign with Christ now. When we pass and our new born again spirit returns to the father it will sleep . On the last day those asleep and those still reigning with Christ on earth will rise as one to receive the promise of new incorruptible life.
 

Poinsetta

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2018
7,824
5,033
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#51
They go into paradise but no judgement yet and they are asleep.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,021
5,037
113
#52
Once the Holy Spirit enters into each of us we are in Christ. How much more present may a person be while yet in the flesh.

Old and the New has shared how there was no punctuation in the Greek on the subject of the thief being in Paradise because placing the comma in the proper plce demonstrates that the today refers to the thief's declaration of his own beleif of Jesus guaranteeing he would later be with our Savior.

Just as when the Holy Spirit comes into any of us, we are given the same message as was given the thief..

All of the Word teaches of the resurrection how the dead in Christ, Yeshua, will be taken up first and then those who remain quick, that is alive to meet Him above…….. The thief died just as to all who believe, that is, until His return.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
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#53
Once the Holy Spirit enters into each of us we are in Christ. How much more present may a person be while yet in the flesh.

Old and the New has shared how there was no punctuation in the Greek on the subject of the thief being in Paradise because placing the comma in the proper plce demonstrates that the today refers to the thief's declaration of his own beleif of Jesus guaranteeing he would later be with our Savior.

Just as when the Holy Spirit comes into any of us, we are given the same message as was given the thief..

All of the Word teaches of the resurrection how the dead in Christ, Yeshua, will be taken up first and then those who remain quick, that is alive to meet Him above…….. The thief died just as to all who believe, that is, until His return.
Yes paradise the invisible presence of God or called the bosom of the Abraham as our father in heaven working in us to both will and perform His good pleasure.. This I believe shows that he is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases . . . our source of imputed righteousness, Christ in us. . . not of us but the power of God by which we do believe the first experience of his love . The hope of his Glory. The glory all men fall short of.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,228
113
www.christiancourier.com
#54
My wife's grandmother died recently, and there is now some debate between family members as to whether you go immediately to be with Christ of if you sleep until the resurrection.

After doing some Bible study, I want to say you go immediately to Christ, but I am honest enough to say I am biased in the matter, and could be reading my own desires into the scriptures.
Firstly, my deepest sympathy for this precious loss in your family.
The equality of fate.
"All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust." Ecclesiastes 3:20
Ecclesiastes 12:7
"...then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."