Where are the sun, moon, and stars?

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GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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#1
Read Genesis 1:1-20 very carefully. Pay particularly close attention to the word 'firmament'.

What exactly is the firmament?

What is this passage telling you about where the sun, moon, and stars are?

What does the Bible actually say?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#3
I wonder what your view is of...

Daniel 8:10 (context 8:7-10) -

"It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them."


[not really sure where you're going with the OP :D ... just thought I'd bring this verse into the consideration esp re: "sun, moon, STARS" part :) (note: I don't see this verse speaking to the "stars" we see twinkling up in the sky, just to be clear)]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#4
Below is the NIV text of the relevant verses of Genesis 1:

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

So the text clearly says that the place where the birds are, and the place where the sun, moon, and stars are, is the vault of the sky, which is between the surface (land or water) and the "other" water above. As "sky" refers to both atmosphere and cosmos, I see no issue.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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#5
Read Genesis 1:1-20 very carefully. Pay particularly close attention to the word 'firmament'.

What exactly is the firmament?

What is this passage telling you about where the sun, moon, and stars are?

What does the Bible actually say?
It tells us that they are in heaven but it doesn’t say whether it’s the first, second or third heaven.

I believe your assumption is that it’s the first heaven but OBVIOUSLY it a can’t be the first heaven because the sun moon and stars in Genesis are literal and they don’t exist in the first heaven.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#6
It tells us that they are in heaven but it doesn’t say whether it’s the first, second or third heaven.

I believe your assumption is that it’s the first heaven but OBVIOUSLY it a can’t be the first heaven because the sun moon and stars in Genesis are literal and they don’t exist in the first heaven.
Paul speaks of a man who was taken up to "the third heaven". I think it's reasonable to see the atmosphere as the first, "outer space" (the cosmos) as the second, and the abode of God as the third.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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#7
Paul speaks of a man who was taken up to "the third heaven". I think it's reasonable to see the atmosphere as the first, "outer space" (the cosmos) as the second, and the abode of God as the third.
Just taking a wild guess but I think this could be heading toward flat earth maybe.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#8
What exactly is the firmament?
The word firmament is a translation for expanse*. It could include both the first and the second heavens (the atmosphere, the stratosphere, and space). "Heaven" is therefore generic, and could also include the third heaven (God's Heaven).
It should be noted that Gen 1:1 has the plural for "the heavens" [הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם (ha·sha·ma·yim)] even though the KJV has it as singular "the heaven".

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. ( Gen 1:8)

And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (Gen 1:15)

*Strong's Concordance
raqia: an extended surface, expanse
Original Word: רָקִיעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: raqia
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-kee'-ah)
Definition: an extended surface, expanse
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#9
Just taking a wild guess but I think this could be heading toward flat earth maybe.
GaryA has posted in support of flat-earth theories in the Conspiracy forum, so you're on track.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#10
earth firma, solar firma, galaxy firma,
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
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Texas
#11
If flat earthers want to prove the Earth is flat, you think that they would pool their money, buy a go pro camera and a weather balloon and a GPS tracking device and send it up.
I know this would cost probably $1000 bucks but if the 12 or 13 of them could put together a hundred bucks each they could get this done, and have a pizza at the watch party when they retrieve the footage.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#12
Ultimately it about the hiden glory of God the unseen Holy place (not under the Sun the temporal ) but rather the sun and moon,.The temporal source and reflection the... two corruption time keepers will be under the feet of the bride of Christ the church .Pictured in Revelation 12 the end of time.

The firmament is the media or canvas he used to reveal his creation on. The light of the glory of his presence .Let there be light and light announcing his glory presence.

On day three (three is used to establish the end of a matter). it must be time appointed that God saw pride in the heart of Satan His glory departed and the temporal keepers began there work of under the Sun. Day 4 he flicked the switch on.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1;14-19

No light form the Sun or mood the first three days. God is Light.

In the new incorruptible heavens and earth there will be no sun and moon The presence of God will be the light as it was the first three days and the Lamb is the light thereof. No more night represented by darkness or evil

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation21:23-24
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#17
It tells us that they are in heaven but it doesn’t say whether it’s the first, second or third heaven.
I would consider that 'firmament' may represent either the first heaven or the first heaven and second heaven combined as one 'expanse'.

I believe your assumption is that it’s the first heaven but OBVIOUSLY it a can’t be the first heaven because the sun moon and stars in Genesis are literal and they don’t exist in the first heaven.
You only say this because you have been taught "vastness-of-space" all your life - it is not a matter of [real] scientific proof.

It is not actually as obvious as you may think.

(BTW - Why are the sun, moon, and stars only literal in Genesis?)

How can you even know with absolute certainty just exactly how far the second heaven reaches?

Other than simply believing what you are told (acting on assumption and blind trust), you cannot know with absolute certainty - because you have not actually conducted your own scientific proof.

So then, it is really a matter of faith...
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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#19
Do some people really think that there is a limited-but-vast-size "universe" contained by water outside of its "farthest edges"...???
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#20
as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is His love for those who fear Him
(Psalm 103:11)
how great is His love?