WHERE ARE WE TODAY IN THE BIRTH PAINS???

[Ariel82]

So in a nutshell would you say the heavenly temple is presently sitting on the temple mount? And that we (believer’s in today’s world) because we are still in our corruptible bodies can not presently see or enter it yet? Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Just trying to get a handle on what you believe so a simple yes or no to these questions would be appreciated. Thanks

how did you get that out of her post?

"we are citizens of the city and are free to enter the gates of the city and walk it’s golden streets and even ascend up to the inner courts and come into the very presence of the Father and Son seated on the throne of Heaven."

she said that the word common or in your translation profane means that part of the Celestial city is located on the Earth but is in another dimension/ the spiritual realm than what can be seen by those who are not born again in the Spirit.

the "common" area is the Earth itself where people can earn a living. the "holy" area is heaven.

correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I read out of her post.

 

[doulos]

how did you get that out of her post?

"we are citizens of the city and are free to enter the gates of the city and walk it’s golden streets and even ascend up to the inner courts and come into the very presence of the Father and Son seated on the throne of Heaven."

she said that the word common or in your translation profane means that part of the Celestial city is located on the Earth but is in another dimension/ the spiritual realm than what can be seen by those who are not born again in the Spirit.

the "common" area is the Earth itself where people can earn a living. the "holy" area is heaven.

correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I read out of her post.

So are you saying you (as a born again believer) can go to Jerusalem and see this temple now and enter into that temple in your corruptible body?

 

[Ariel82]

So are you saying you (as a born again believer) can go to Jerusalem and see this temple now and enter into that temple in your corruptible body?

no....."Just trying to get a handle on what you believe so a simple yes or no to these questions would be appreciated. Thanks"

 

[Anonimous]

Oooops. My bad. This is the wrong Temple

 

[Pilgrimer]

So are you saying you (as a born again believer) can go to Jerusalem and see this temple now and enter into that temple in your corruptible body?

A believer who has been born of the spirit has been born into God's heavenly kingdom and become a citizen of the New Jerusalem and by the blood of Jesus can enter the heavenly temple which is the abode of God and can come before the very throne of God "in the spirit" through prayer. Your body does not have to leave earth for your spirit to enter into God's presence.

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, the flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart ..."

It isn't your body that takes you to heaven, it's your heart.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

how did you get that out of her post?

"we are citizens of the city and are free to enter the gates of the city and walk it’s golden streets and even ascend up to the inner courts and come into the very presence of the Father and Son seated on the throne of Heaven."

she said that the word common or in your translation profane means that part of the Celestial city is located on the Earth but is in another dimension/ the spiritual realm than what can be seen by those who are not born again in the Spirit.

the "common" area is the Earth itself where people can earn a living. the "holy" area is heaven.

correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I read out of her post.

Perfect summation. It is difficult for some to understand spiritual things like this, so we have to be patient with them.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Ariel82]

I was thinking when reading your post if in 29 years I'd be able to articulate it in such a clear and concise manner... but God uses us where ever we are.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones

 

[cfultz3]

So are you saying you (as a born again believer) can go to Jerusalem and see this temple now and enter into that temple in your corruptible body?

Doulos,

They are talking about the spiritual side of the Kingdom which we in Christ have access to now. You are talking about the physical Kingdom which will come at the end. Nevertheless, it is the same Kingdom.

 

[Abiding]

How can you read 1 cor 15 and rev 19 and come up with a physical kingdom?

 

[cfultz3]

How can you read 1 cor 15 and rev 19 and come up with a physical kingdom?

I guess Revelation 21 tells me that there will be a new Heaven and a new Earth, the physical Kingdom where God and the Son shall be. As to the spiritual aspect, Pilgrimer explains it very well in post 525.

 

[Ariel82]

you know I read Revelation 19 again and how many times did I read the phrase "in heaven" versus "on the Earth"?

verse 1 a great multitude in heaven,
11 heaven opened
14 the armies in heaven
17 all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven

we have kings OF the earth but not ON the earth in verse 19... since Satan was called the prince of the earth and was in Heaven at that time, I don't think that counts...

so we have FOUR verses that say that Rev 19 is IN HEAVEN and none that say its on the Earth.

 

[Ariel82]

I guess Revelation 21 tells me that there will be a new Heaven and a new Earth, the physical Kingdom where God and the Son shall be. As to the spiritual aspect, Pilgrimer explains it very well in post 525.

I agree with the New Heaven and New Earth being physical but I think EG posted something about Ezekiel and how the temple is suppose to be part of a physical kingdom before that happens while Satan is bound for a 1000 years. it doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[zone]

you know I read Revelation 19 again and how many times did I read the phrase "in heaven" versus "on the Earth"?

verse 1 a great multitude in heaven,
11 heaven opened
14 the armies in heaven
17 all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven

we have kings OF the earth but not ON the earth in verse 19... since Satan was called the prince of the earth and was in Heaven at that time, I don't think that counts...

so we have FOUR verses that say that Rev 19 is IN HEAVEN and none that say its on the Earth.

it goes

earth
heaven
earth
heaven
earth
heaven
etc.

it tells the same story several ways. 7 times. each time including more or less of the previous version.
it is circular, concentric and recapitulates.

and includes single visions of both realms at the same time (superimposed):

i.e.: the beast and men (on earth) as Christ the Victor and His overcomers (heaven) overlook the scene on earth - it is for comfort, and for evidence of His Victory and Glory.

 

[cfultz3]

I agree with the New Heaven and New Earth being physical but I think EG posted something about Ezekiel and how the temple is suppose to be part of a physical kingdom before that happens while Satan is bound for a 1000 years. it doesn't really make sense to me.

My post was solely in reply to Abiding's question. I have not been following this thread to much.

 

[RickyZ]

Then you believe Satan and his demons are physical beings that can be bound with physical chains? And that once physically bound Satan will no longer be able to influence us? But my understanding is that Satan's influence is spiritual, not physical. I mean Satan doesn't exactly take hold of our hands and feet and physically make us sin.

My understanding is that it will not be the binding of Satan that frees us from sin and corruption, but the resurrection/rapture when our bodies are changed from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible, from sinful, mortal flesh, to purified, immortal flesh. That's a work of Christ dwelling in us which will be accomplished at his second coming and the end of the world, not the result of the binding of Satan.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Rev. 20 clearly shows satan being bound and made able to act any longer. And while he is spiritual, the spiritual inflences the physical and vice-versa (Matt. 18:18)

And spiritual bodies do have a physical component. Jesus was raised from the dead in a spiritual body, but it included the physical component, or else Jesus physical body would still be in the tomb, and His spiritual body would not bear the scars of the crucifixion.

So yes in the resurrection we are transformed and we are changed, but with the added benefit that satan will no longer (for a time) have the freedom to tempt and coerce us.

 

[homwardbound]

Rev. 20 clearly shows satan being bound and made able to act any longer. And while he is spiritual, the spiritual inflences the physical and vice-versa (Matt. 18:18)

And spiritual bodies do have a physical component. Jesus was raised from the dead in a spiritual body, but it included the physical component, or else Jesus physical body would still be in the tomb, and His spiritual body would not bear the scars of the crucifixion.

So yes in the resurrection we are transformed and we are changed, but with the added benefit that satan will no longer (for a time) have the freedom to tempt and coerce us.

So what is better flesh reigning over Spirit God's as has been for years with man trying to turn this around, by his own works and asking God foir help which does not work either?
Or trust God after the death of Christ that you are forgiven 100% all time and that you need new life in the Spirit of God raised from the dead as Christ is. If one trust this here and now then God's Spirit by your trust in God reigns over your flesh, flesh thus being dead to sin yet flesh still alive held alive by God's Spirit free from error in the Spirit of God. So many times we as being Human just go back and forth we go upstairs to God and get a drink and some wiusdom and then return right back downstairs trying to stop sin from occurring and we just keep reaping it over and over because we keep sowing to the flesh in the fact of thinking about flesh that will only produce flesh. But when you stop thinking about flesh and are preoccupied in the Spirt while in the Spirit there is no sin because there is no thought of sin, all thoughts are thus taken captive tothe obedience of Christ which is what Christ came to do first take away sin and then give you new life in the Spirit of God throguh the cross it is afree gift not something one ever earns
Romans 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 3:27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 4:2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.