Where's "christianity" heading?

[Ryan1976]

So where's Christianity heading? If you could take a peek twenty years into the future, what's she gonna look like? Are the non-denominational folks gonna be top dog? Maybe the Baptists will put on their rally cap? Or are we pretty much agreed that the Atheists are going to be the majority?



Interesting statistics I came across here:



http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/


The following quote is purty interesting:

"It looks like the two-party system of American Protestantism--mainline versus evangelical--is collapsing," said Mark Silk, director of the Public Values Program. "A generic form of evangelicalism is emerging as the normative form of non-Catholic Christianity in the United States."


THE STATS (as usual, the Orthodox are left out ) --




HARTFORD, Conn. - The Catholic population of the United States has shifted away from the Northeast and towards the Southwest, while secularity continues to grow in strength in all regions of the country, according to a new study conducted by the Program on Public Values at Trinity College. "The decline of Catholicism in the Northeast is nothing short of stunning," said Barry Kosmin, a principal investigator for the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS). "Thanks to immigration and natural increase among Latinos, California now has a higher proportion of Catholics than New England."


Conducted between February and November of last year, ARIS 2008 is the third in a landmark series of large, nationally representative surveys of U.S. adults in the 48 contiguous states conducted by Kosmin and Ariela Keysar. Employing the same research methodology as the 1990 and 2001 surveys, ARIS 2008 questioned 54,461 adults in either English or Spanish. With a margin of error of less than 0.5 percent, it provides the only complete portrait of how contemporary Americans identify themselves religiously, and how that self-identification has changed over the past generation.


In broad terms, ARIS 2008 found a consolidation and strengthening of shifts signaled in the 2001 survey. The percentage of Americans claiming no religion, which jumped from 8.2 in 1990 to 14.2 in 2001, has now increased to 15 percent. Given the estimated growth of the American adult population since the last census from 207 million to 228 million, that reflects an additional 4.7 million "Nones." Northern New England has now taken over from the Pacific Northwest as the least religious section of the country, with Vermont, at 34 percent "Nones," leading all other states by a full 9 points.


"Many people thought our 2001 finding was an anomaly," Keysar said. We now know it wasn't. The 'Nones' are the only group to have grown in every state of the Union."


The percentage of Christians in America, which declined in the 1990s from 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent, has now edged down to 76 percent. Ninety percent of the decline comes from the non-Catholic segment of the Christian population, largely from the mainline denominations, including Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians/Anglicans, and the United Church of Christ. These groups, whose proportion of the American population shrank from 18.7 percent in 1990 to 17.2 percent in 2001, all experienced sharp numerical declines this decade and now constitute just 12.9 percent.


Most of the growth in the Christian population occurred among those who would identify only as "Christian," "Evangelical/Born Again," or "non-denominational Christian." The last of these, associated with the growth of megachurches, has increased from less than 200,000 in 1990 to 2.5 million in 2001 to over 8 million today. These groups grew from 5 percent of the population in 1990 to 8.5 percent in 2001 to 11.8 percent in 2008. Significantly, 38.6 percent of mainline Protestants now also identify themselves as evangelical or born again.


"It looks like the two-party system of American Protestantism--mainline versus evangelical--is collapsing," said Mark Silk, director of the Public Values Program. "A generic form of evangelicalism is emerging as the normative form of non-Catholic Christianity in the United State s."


Other key findings:
• Baptists, who constitute the largest non-Catholic Christian tradition, have increased their numbers by two million since 2001, but continue to decline as a proportion of the population.
• Mormons have increased in numbers enough to hold their own proportionally, at 1.4 percent of the population.
• The Muslim proportion of the population continues to grow, from .3 percent in 1990 to .5 percent in 2001 to .6 percent in 2008.
• The number of adherents of Eastern Religions, which more than doubled in the 1990s, has declined slightly, from just over two million to just under. Asian Americans are substantially more likely to indicate no religious identity than other racial or ethnic groups.
• Those who identify religiously as Jews continue to decline numerically, from 3.1 million in 1990 to 2.8 million in 2001 to 2.7 million in 2008--1.2 percent of the population. Defined to include those who identify as Jews by ethnicity alone, the American Jewish population has remained stable over the past two decades.
• Only1.6 percent of Americans call themselves atheist or agnostic. But based on stated beliefs, 12 percent are atheist (no God) or agnostic (unsure), while 12 percent more are deistic (believe in a higher power but not a personal God). The number of outright atheists has nearly doubled since 2001, from 900 thousand to 1.6 million. Twenty-seven percent of Americans do not expect a religious funeral at their death.
• Adherents of New Religious movements, inc luding Wiccans and self-described pagans, have grown faster this decade than in the 1990s.


Professors Kosmin and Keysar are, respectively, director and associate director of Trinity's Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society and Culture. The Program on Public Values at Trinity College comprises the Institute and the Leonard E. Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life, which is also directed by Professor Silk. ARIS 2008 was made possible by grants from Lilly Endowment, Inc. and the Posen Foundation. To receive a copy of the ARIS 2008 Summary Report by email, contact any of the above.

 

[watchmen]

Where is christianity heading? well according to scripture, it is heading straight for Apostasy.

2nd Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Before Christ returns (which I think is very soon) the church will fall away from the truth, and with all the false hood beiong promoted in our churches today, I would say it already has.

 

[suaso]

I like those statistics

I guess they are lumping the Orthodox in with the non-Catholic Christians, because generally speaking, there really aren't many Orthodox Christians in America as in, say, Russia. I guess the good news for the Orthodox worldwide is that their numbers are growing.

Talking to a lot of ex-Protestants, they left their denominations because no one could come to a consensus on what to believe, it was all too, shall we say, personal. One of my professors was a Methodist pastor, then an Episcopal priest, and is now Catholic. He says his decisions were based on the fact that what was considered theological orthodoxy varied from individual church to individual church. Some Methodists churches he went to were more liberal, some more conservative in theology. As an Episcopalian, he was attracted to the idea of bishops as governors of what was or was not good theology, but did not like that at church x, they ordained female priest(esses) and supported openly gay clergy, but at church z that would be considered unthinkable. In the end, the bishops had no authority to say if church x or church y was correct or incorrect. So then he took another look at Catholicism, because at the end of the day, there are very clear perimeters of the faith set up, and any deviance from them is simply incorrect.

I think that is what people are looking for, a clear definition of moral truth which a lot (but not all) denominations don't have. The climate of Christianity in America is largely "I'm ok, you're ok, let's be friends." No one wants to say "No, that is not right" to other churches (even within the same umbrella of a particular denomination). Orthodoxy has the benefit of it's patriarchs and bishops, the councils, apostolic succession, etc. which attracts a lot of Christians as well for similar reasons as Catholicism.

Those statistics seem to support a similar trend occurring within the Catholic Church when it comes to things like religious vocations. After Vatican II in the 1960s happened, there was an attitude of "anti-old-school" that revamped the Roman liturgy and many religious communities. Nuns and priests started to wear street clothes and concentrate more of their efforts towards social justice issues than theological pursuits. Basically, many of that generation saw themselves as social workers. Now, people in my generation have grown up without the presence of this stereotypical nun or priest around the parish and we want it back. Statistically, people in my age group are joining religious orders of nuns, sisters, monks, and priests who wear their habits, devote most of their time to prayer, etc; and those orders where everyone is an exaulted social activist and spend almost no time in community prayer are basically dying off. There's a good article about this here.

Of course, you Orthodox folks haven't had that problem. You've done a great job maintaining your liturgies and such.

 

[Ryan1976]

I like those statistics

I guess they are lumping the Orthodox in with the non-Catholic Christians, because generally speaking, there really aren't many Orthodox Christians in America as in, say, Russia. I guess the good news for the Orthodox worldwide is that their numbers are growing.

Talking to a lot of ex-Protestants, they left their denominations because no one could come to a consensus on what to believe, it was all too, shall we say, personal. One of my professors was a Methodist pastor, then an Episcopal priest, and is now Catholic. He says his decisions were based on the fact that what was considered theological orthodoxy varied from individual church to individual church. Some Methodists churches he went to were more liberal, some more conservative in theology. As an Episcopalian, he was attracted to the idea of bishops as governors of what was or was not good theology, but did not like that at church x, they ordained female priest(esses) and supported openly gay clergy, but at church z that would be considered unthinkable. In the end, the bishops had no authority to say if church x or church y was correct or incorrect. So then he took another look at Catholicism, because at the end of the day, there are very clear perimeters of the faith set up, and any deviance from them is simply incorrect.

I think that is what people are looking for, a clear definition of moral truth which a lot (but not all) denominations don't have. The climate of Christianity in America is largely "I'm ok, you're ok, let's be friends." No one wants to say "No, that is not right" to other churches (even within the same umbrella of a particular denomination). Orthodoxy has the benefit of it's patriarchs and bishops, the councils, apostolic succession, etc. which attracts a lot of Christians as well for similar reasons as Catholicism.

Those statistics seem to support a similar trend occurring within the Catholic Church when it comes to things like religious vocations. After Vatican II in the 1960s happened, there was an attitude of "anti-old-school" that revamped the Roman liturgy and many religious communities. Nuns and priests started to wear street clothes and concentrate more of their efforts towards social justice issues than theological pursuits. Basically, many of that generation saw themselves as social workers. Now, people in my generation have grown up without the presence of this stereotypical nun or priest around the parish and we want it back. Statistically, people in my age group are joining religious orders of nuns, sisters, monks, and priests who wear their habits, devote most of their time to prayer, etc; and those orders where everyone is an exaulted social activist and spend almost no time in community prayer are basically dying off. There's a good article about this here.

Of course, you Orthodox folks haven't had that problem. You've done a great job maintaining your liturgies and such.

It's definitely a weird time to live in. At the Church I go to the congregation is made up of about 50% protestant. We have some RCC converts. Not far from here a Lutheran congregation, including their Priest (or pastor or whatever they call it) are Catechumens and seeking to become Orthodox. However, there's been, what I consider to be, an adjustment phase that Orthodox in the West are going through. Because of the influx of Protestants, we tend to bring a lot of protestant notions with us and this is starting to effect what is being presented as Orthodox. Also, being American, we are starting to have a weird effect on certain customs which is making our long established Orthodox brothers and sisters look over here and wonder what we're up to with "their" Orthodoxy.

We'll get it ironed out. God willing.

On the protestant front, there is something that really stuck out to me. I never even heard of Orthodox Christians and didn't know much about Roman Catholics. I was going to become a pastor and I started to look at the history of the denomination I was supposedly an advocate for (unknowingly). I was surprised that the denomination actually believed in certain things, back in the day. However, those teachings and doctrines were still fairly new and had their roots in other "phases" in history. But what stood out was that I knew the congregation pretty well. I was going to three bible studies a week and involved in other stuff. I was always talking about certain beliefs, what verses or passages meant, etc. I was always asking questions. However, no one ever agreed so I would just basically take the stuff I personally agreed with or seemed right to me and then discard or shelve the rest. What other choices are there?

But looking at the congregation against the history made me realize that though we went to a specific Church that had a denomination, the vast majority had no clue what it is that we, as a denomination, believed, let alone how it mattered or made sense to our "spirituality". More than this, most people there didn't even consider themselves denominational. Everyone's response to all the confusion and apparent lack of Truth (unless they were in denial), was simply, "I don't consider myself a denomination, just Christian". Then why are we going to a denominational church???

Unity has been reduced to morals and ethics. Love each other, don't judge, etc. Everything else is debatable and therefore has potential for division and therefore if it's not a general morality/ethic, it's something that is "subjective". To speak otherwise is counter to the Spirit of the ever-evasive and non-definable "truth".

I didn't know why that didn't sound right. At the same time, I knew that it wasn't about "denomination".

What I notice happening in the protestant world today is three-fold.

You have people either going completely left and just reducing and spiritualizing everything. This is why the Universalists and the emergent church movements are "doing well". This direction has both their charismatics and their "scholars". The emergent types, for instance, have been, in some circles, like Rob Bell etc., taking "concepts" like Mary and re-visiting things like her virginity. Not post-Jesus birth but in regards to THE virgin birth. They, like most "enlightened" folks have found that if they focus on word meanings and historical context, they can suggest that she might not have been a virgin but that it's not really important because (like Gnostics) it's all about the spiritual world. In their eyes, those ancient bible stories are just indicative of a cruel and barbaric and less "civilized" society. And to them, Jesus usually serves only to be a moral or ethical "example". AKA, this is why gays can be bishops etc. To discriminate is "hate" and hate is counter to love and Jesus came here to be an example of "loving" others.

The other direction is to become even more conservative - fundamentalist and evangelical. You basically start going "old-school" which is really just a way of saying, let's take it back to the 50s and early 60s when people were giving fiery brimstone scare you into repentance take no prisoners "sermons". Reduce everything to black and white, right and wrong (good luck agreeing on the which teaching to label which color). This is also when the whole "we need a revival" stuff picked up (60s) speed because the society was getting all "loose". Really gained momentum when people started talking "civil rights" (good thing Fox News wasn't around back then). But that's another story. But today it's taken on a weird charismatic angle. You have these stringent fundamentalists that will pop an artery proclaiming their "chrisitan" tradition. They're very interested in trying to get the gov't to do their bidding (but have reduced themselves to media caricatures, mere voting blocks that can be easily persuaded to do the political party's bidding - which renders them impotent) and then turn around and start speaking in tongues. They're like liberal puritans.

Then you have the "reformers". These types are trying to take back what was lost, re-examine their tradition and try to "fix it". Maybe start a new Church. Enter a rise in house churches. These types usually wind up switching denominations or get so entrenched in their views that they get all crusty and jaded and either continue in this state until death or dissolve into one of the two other directions. Just like the original "reformers". Whatever happened to their denominations anyway? Oh, that's right, they bore fruit.

Regardless, it looks pretty spooky out there. But atleast there are always people doing wonderful things, helping each other out and trying to better themselves. Secular culture does the same thing but doesn't make it a bad thing.

To me, the rise in denominational divisions and then the subsequent diffusion into this "non-denominational" whateverness has paralleled the rise of Atheism. I think maybe Jesus was onto something when he prayed for all of his believers to be in complete unity -- that the world might know that we are in him as he is in the Father. (complete communion/Union/Unity with the Father - sounds like Trinitarian theology).

If the world can't see us united in Truth, how are we supposed to show them God? You can't blame the kids for walking away from churches that can only agree to disagree.


I need to edit these ramblings.... I'm still waiting for the day I exceed the 20000 character limit.

 

[Densetzu]

I think atheism and Wicca are growing so rapidly largely at the fault of Christians themselves, to be honest. American Evangelicalism has a somewhat disturbing fanatical literalistic streak that's causing intelligent men and women to lose their faith in the church, and unfortunately, in the message of Christ altogether. Angry fanatics who seemed to have completely missed the point of loving their neighborhoods think it's okay to shout racial slurs and call homosexuals fags, insist that we believe the Earth is literally 6000 years old no matter what science discovers, and seem to believe that we should, in a government that is supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, use the government to enforce our beliefs.

Some people embrace that message and are made worse for it. Many run from it. They either get caught up in another sect like Word of Faith (prosperity gospel) or even other religions (Wicca, for example)...
..or they decide that all religion is bull**** and abandon their faith altogether.

I think in the future there's going to be a steep decline in religious observance. Christianity is going to change. I don't think the Fundamentalists can ultimately win, not with the skakey scientific and historical ground they stand on. But some of the other groups are also teaching bad doctrine, too.

What I hope happens is that once we've seen the damage extremism can cause, that Christians of all sects can sit down, submit to the guidance of the Spirit, and hammer out a core orthodoxy comprised of the essentials to the faith--and agree not to let disagreements turn into bitter arguments and divisive screeds.

 

[Ryan1976]

I think atheism and Wicca are growing so rapidly largely at the fault of Christians themselves, to be honest. American Evangelicalism has a somewhat disturbing fanatical literalistic streak that's causing intelligent men and women to lose their faith in the church, and unfortunately, in the message of Christ altogether. Angry fanatics who seemed to have completely missed the point of loving their neighborhoods think it's okay to shout racial slurs and call homosexuals fags, insist that we believe the Earth is literally 6000 years old no matter what science discovers, and seem to believe that we should, in a government that is supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, use the government to enforce our beliefs.

Exactly.

Some people embrace that message and are made worse for it. Many run from it. They either get caught up in another sect like Word of Faith (prosperity gospel) or even other religions (Wicca, for example)...
..or they decide that all religion is bull**** and abandon their faith altogether.

The Word of Faith movement is all kinds of disturbing. Agreed. Insert also the rise in Theists.

I think in the future there's going to be a steep decline in religious observance. Christianity is going to change. I don't think the Fundamentalists can ultimately win, not with the skakey scientific and historical ground they stand on. But some of the other groups are also teaching bad doctrine, too.

What I hope happens is that once we've seen the damage extremism can cause, that Christians of all sects can sit down, submit to the guidance of the Spirit, and hammer out a core orthodoxy comprised of the essentials to the faith--and agree not to let disagreements turn into bitter arguments and divisive screeds.

Dunno. Hope so. Might take a healthy dose of tribulation though.

 

[suaso]

Yeah, my friend is Byzantine Catholic, so they basically use the Eastern Orthodox liturgy (and even negate the filioque from their creed) but fall under the Holy See's jurisdiction. He has similar complaints that I think the Orthodox do, that the Church in America (Orthodox and Eastern Catholic rites) has become Latinized and Americanized. I think its a problem that happens when we try to apply our American ideals of democracy and "freedom" to the ancient Eastern and Western Christian traditions that have very little to do with the American/Democratic ideal of "freedom" and all that.

There's actually a great book called Mass and Modernity: Walking to Heaven Backwards. It is written by a Catholic, but the first half of the book goes through the philosophical shifts (mostly in the West) from the Enlightenment to today that have changed the way Christians view worship. It goes over the ideas that lead to the belief that community is the center and focal point of worship and not God, and I think a lot of this thinking had damaged much of the way Christians today (especially in the United States) view their faith. It's a good read!

 

[Ryan1976]

Yeah, my friend is Byzantine Catholic, so they basically use the Eastern Orthodox liturgy (and even negate the filioque from their creed) but fall under the Holy See's jurisdiction. He has similar complaints that I think the Orthodox do, that the Church in America (Orthodox and Eastern Catholic rites) has become Latinized and Americanized. I think its a problem that happens when we try to apply our American ideals of democracy and "freedom" to the ancient Eastern and Western Christian traditions that have very little to do with the American/Democratic ideal of "freedom" and all that.

There's actually a great book called Mass and Modernity: Walking to Heaven Backwards. It is written by a Catholic, but the first half of the book goes through the philosophical shifts (mostly in the West) from the Enlightenment to today that have changed the way Christians view worship. It goes over the ideas that lead to the belief that community is the center and focal point of worship and not God, and I think a lot of this thinking had damaged much of the way Christians today (especially in the United States) view their faith. It's a good read!

Thanks!

For anyone else interested, I'll save you a carpal click --

http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Modernity-Walking-Heaven-Backward/dp/1586170694

 

[Graybeard]

Heard on a TBN program that 57% of American Christians believe that there are many paths to Heaven. (scary)
can anyone validate this?

 

[Ryan1976]

Heard on a TBN program that 57% of American Christians believe that there are many paths to Heaven. (scary)
can anyone validate this?

That was a Pew Poll I believe. I thought it was 58%.

They have all kinds of neato features over there. Scary reading through the stats though. Here you go -- http://religions.pewforum.org/

Awesome roll over flash site on USA TODAY. Just hover the mouse over stuffs and explore. A fun way to discover ugly stats.

HERE -- http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/2008_pew_religion/flash.htm

Here's a USA survey: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-06-23-pew-religions_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip (to read the whole thing)

The survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 0.6 percentage points for overall findings. The margin is a bit larger for subgroups such as "evangelicals" (26.3% of adults, who share strict ideas on salvation and common historic origins), mainline Protestants (18.1%, who share "a less exclusionary view of salvation and a strong emphasis on social reform") and historically black churches (6.9%, "shaped by experiences of slavery and segregation"). Among the highlights:
• 78% overall say there are "absolute standards of right and wrong," but only 29% rely on their religion to delineate these standards. The majority (52%) turn to "practical experience and common sense," with 9% relying on philosophy and reason, and 5% on scientific information.
• 74% say "there is a heaven, where people who have led good lives are eternally rewarded," but far fewer (59%) say there's a "hell, where people who have led bad lives and die without being sorry are eternally punished."
• 70%, including a majority of all major Christian and non-Christian religious groups except Mormons, say "many religions can lead to eternal life."
• 68% say "there's more than one true way to interpret the teachings of my religion."
• 44% want to preserve their religion's traditional beliefs and practices. But most Catholics (67%), Jews (65%), mainline Christians (56%) and Muslims (51%) say their religion should either "adjust to new circumstances" or "adopt modern beliefs and practices."
Green observes, "Americans are deeply suspicious of institutional religion. … (Some see religion) as about money, rules and power. That's not a positive connotation for everyone."
• 50% say "homosexuality is a way of life that should be accepted by society," but the most consistently traditional religious groups say society should discourage it — 76% of Jehovah's Witnesses, 68% of Mormons, 61% of Muslims and 64% of evangelicals.
• 51% have a certain belief in a personal God, but 27% are less certain of this, 14% call God "an impersonal force," and 5% reject any kind of God. "People say 'God,' and no one knows who they mean," says Kosmin, director of the Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society and Culture at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn.
• 14% of all surveyed, including 28% of evangelicals, say religion is the "main influence in their political thinking."

 

[Graybeard]

That was a Pew Poll I believe. I thought it was 58%.

must have gone up
thanks for the links

 

[roaringkitten]

"So where's Christianity heading? If you could take a peek twenty years into the future, what's she gonna look like? Are the non-denominational folks gonna be top dog? Maybe the Baptists will put on their rally cap? Or are we pretty much agreed that the Atheists are going to be the majority?"

True Christianity will be outlawed, and those Christians who stand without compromise for their faith will be persecuted. The one-world govt is approaching while many Christians play church completely unaware. This isn't about "denomination" it is about living for Christ and obeying the Word of God. When people obey the Word of God, heresy cant flourish. When people obey the Word, soul winning flourishes.

Instead, we get wolves in sheeps clothing, deceiving many people with false gospels(ie: Lordship salvation) and leading the flock into doctrines of demons:

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ" Ephesians 4:14-15

The church should be horrified right now about much of the church yoking up with unbelievers. The Word of God warns those who hold hands with religious groups teaching another gospel(ie:catholicism). If you are a Christian and yoke up with such groups you are a partaker in their evil deeds as Scripture reveals:

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 1:9-11

I dont want to sound unkind, but this had to be said. I recently had an unbeliever try and convince me that hell was not real, that there was 3 heavens, etc....using a MODERN Bible version. I've had more people successfully attack the deity of Christ using a modern version, than using the KJV. Something is very wrong here. For example, the NKJV teaches salvation as a long drawn out process. That is blasphemy. There are many professing Christians running around concerned that they might have lost their salvation, than trying to win a soul to Christ. You see, they cant focus on evangelism, because they are too concerned that they might be unsaved again. Its a clever trick by satan to teach the heresy that a Christian can lose their salvation because then they lose the interest in soul winning. I pray that the church wakes up, and that people would start FOCUSING on evangelism. The devil hates it when you try and win a soul for Christ. He loves it when you spend all day debating others about trivial doctrinal issues in the faith, while the rest of the world plunges into hell.

I pray a revival of truth to overtake Christianity. I pray the heretics will stop teaching heresy. I pray we would start letting the Holy Spirit teach us the Word of God, than trying to understand it with our own mind power:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. " 1 Corinthians 2:12-14

I am concerned for the state of Christianity, which is why I wrote this. I have tried to convey this in love and gentleness....Peace.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Roaring, I and many others I know do evangelism and also believe you can lose your salvation.

It only makes us all the more careful to make sure they are a genuine convert and not still born or half born.

And hey, the bible does say to fear God. We teach others to fear the true God who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Not some pussy cat God who is not to be afraid of.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Go figure.

 

[Densetzu]

We're not supposed to 'fear' God in the sense we usually use the word. If that were the case then the command to also LOVE God would be impossible to follow.

It means reverence or respect, not anxiety and terror.

 

[MahogonySnail]

If we encounter the full power and and presence of the Most Holy God , we most certainly will be fearful, yes, in a terror kind of way. That's why all the angels first say "fear not". They dont' mean "respect not".

 

[Jsquared]

I wish to God he would bring a revival in America, like the great awakenings of the past. It's selfish but I love this sinking ship. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing some great revivals all over this world.

 

[Semiazas]

christianity is and always has been an ever evolving faith. its nothing like how it was in the first few centuries after jesus. there were actually several forms of christianity then. but its nothing to worry about. youll be long gone before there is any huge changes in this religion.

 

[Densetzu]

That's why all the angels first say "fear not". They dont' mean "respect not".

That's not the same thing. If a spiritual being appeared before anyone their first reaction would be shock and fear. The angels in those cases were in effect saying 'don't be afraid, I'm not here to waste you, just to deliver a message'.

 

[MahogonySnail]

And God is a spiritual being more terrifying than any angel. Exodus 3:1-15

Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

 

[Densetzu]

This is true, but I'm speaking in the current, corporeal sense. Faith shouldn't be frightening.