WHICH Bible "version" Is Authorized By God?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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John 3:16 reads the same in every translation I can find.
How a preacher delivers it really isn't going to change my mind about what it means.
The KJV has the correct words. The word "begotten" needs to be in the reading or the verse becomes a lie as in the ESV and most other modern versions. Jesus is not God's only son, but God's only begotten son. By reading through scripture, one would find that God has many sons.

KJV 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

ESV 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 

fredoheaven

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Dino246

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The KJV has the correct words. The word "begotten" needs to be in the reading or the verse becomes a lie as in the ESV and most other modern versions. Jesus is not God's only son, but God's only begotten son. By reading through scripture, one would find that God has many sons.

KJV 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

ESV 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
"Begotten" is not the correct word. Beside the fact that it's meaningless to most readers of English today, "only begotten" isn't even the correct translation of monogenes. People thought for centuries that the word is a compound of "one" or "only" and "born"; now scholars know that it's actually a compound of "one" and "kind" which gives "one-of-a-kind" or "unique".
 

John146

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"Begotten" is not the correct word. Beside the fact that it's meaningless to most readers of English today, "only begotten" isn't even the correct translation of monogenes. People thought for centuries that the word is a compound of "one" or "only" and "born"; now scholars know that it's actually a compound of "one" and "kind" which gives "one-of-a-kind" or "unique".
As far as being "unique", or "one of a kind", God has made every individual who has ever lived on the face of this earth "unique" and one of a kind. No two of us are exactly alike in our mental, physical or spiritual makeup.

The first mention principle explains...
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Seth literally came from Adam. Likewise, Jesus came from God, born in His own likeness and image. Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
 

DJZawada

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Jul 25, 2020
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Happy Pesach everyone.

The assumption that Codex translation is completely accurate is a fantasy promulgated through both Christian .orgs and Judaic exegesis. We know it's not by translating Byzantine and Masoretic yourself. If you are incapable of performing translation (Greek/Hebrew) then you must rely on someone to tell you it's accurate (this is opinion).

Some opinions are better than others.

We know God has preserved His Holy Word and that Jesus is He who is our salvation, our Lord, and provides the Holy Spirit to guide all who believe in Him to truth - in all things, not just Bible translations.

He who has an ear to hear.
 

DJZawada

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We can do verse comparison from multiple versions all day long. However, when we look at the Greek/Masoretic we can see a vast difference in many versions - either to misdirect from knowing the truth, or simply to confuse you when it comes to proving about Christ birth, life, death, or resurrection.

In these versions we see that the "scribes" translate scripture so you believe their "truth" or purposeful misdirection.

Here is an example as compared to KJV translation:

KJV Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Greek Translation Daniel 9:27
And to strengthen the will of many seven years, and in the middle of the week, take away my burnt offering and drink offering and upon being filled with abomination becomes desolate, and until the end of time those united together will come to an end upon the depopulation/devastation.

As you can see there is a vast difference in the language and the words chosen by the KJV scribe. This was so you could not clearly understand the meaning in the KJV version, as the scribes themselves did not understand the meaning, but assumed about korbanot.

What that means is you have a Christian scribe who does not understand korbanot in Torah, and the Jewish scribe who does not wish any scriptures to point to Jesus as rendering from YHWH or Nevi'im or the prophets.

That's the problem - 2 opposing views or opinions of HOW the scripture should read.

Jesus our Lord, and many of the prophets foretold of an increase of "knowledge" as the end of the age approaches. We are undoubtedly seeing that the fictional book tales from the 1960's and the misdirection of Christianity geared towards "rapture" theory and confusionism when NOT understanding the Judaic system, has created this spiral of which Jesus and Paul deemed as "the falling away" for the Church as Jesus time of return draws near.

Those of us who have received the Holy Spirit through Christ Jesus will not be tricked by these ancient misinterpreted passages. Granted by God, our eyes are open, and see the hidden mysteries that MEN try to cover up, hide, or deceive to the sheep.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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Bethel songs are very popular among all charismatic churches. The moment the latter start singing their songs, its quite easy for them to adopt WOF doctrines.
I don't consider Bethel to be part of the WOF movement, though there are some similarities in regard to certain specific doctrines.

They don't talk about 'positive confession' as far as I know, and Bethel doesn't have the same three or four sermons or variations thereof as Kenneth Copeland.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I'm going to make this as simple as possible.

Last Time I checked you were'nt authorized to question Scripture, or, The Legitimacy of a Version, or dictate concept's like valid Evidence.

I Find it odd that you refer to people who are reading a "BIBLE" Version, The Word Of God as a "cult."
It's a Conceptual Problem Considering It's " THE BIBLE." With the least ommission's.
I'm going to make this as simple as possible.

Last time I checked, we weren't in possession of any originals, so to make any claim
of knowing what has been added or omitted to any translation is blatantly false.


Perhaps you need to apply your own standard to yourself:

you aren't authorized to question the legitimacy of a version, or dictate concepts like valid evidence.
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No need for translators...
The King James Version, also known as the King James Bible, sometimes as the
English version of 1611, or simply the Authorized Version, is an English translation
of the Christian Bible for the Church of England, commissioned in 1604 and
completed as well as published in 1611 under the sponsorship of James I and VI.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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The King James Version, also known as the King James Bible, sometimes as the
English version of 1611, or simply the Authorized Version, is an English translation
of the Christian Bible for the Church of England, commissioned in 1604 and
completed as well as published in 1611 under the sponsorship of James I and VI.
Yep, it is finished. No more need for further translations except in other languages.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Yep, it is finished. No more need for further translations except in other languages.
I suppose you must deliberately overlook the fact that the KJ Bible is itself a
translation while you make the inane claim that there is no need of translators...
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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I started taking courses with the PAOC, and started studying the Bible, and theology, learned lots about the denomination. Like anyone not believing in a pre-tribe rapture was not saved and going to hell. Right there in print.
Was this from one local PAOC or from the denomination? My understanding is that the A/G in the US would not make believing in pre-trib an issue of salvation. Having been raised, partly, in that movement, that sounds like something that would be considered false doctrine in the A/G. But there can be individual radical preachers and congregations that don't fit with the overall movement's beliefs, and PAOC is affiliated with the A/G, but probably has some of its own characteristics that I am not familiar with. I have one friend raised as a PAOC MK, and I met her parents.

My old Pentecostal friends gave me Kenyon's book to read, as early as 1984 and I didn't know what to think about it. It didn't match anything I read in my Bible, at all. Then read Hagin and Copeland. A friend became obsessed with Copeland, got a PhD from his ministry school, not sure whether that was accredited. She was one of the people who told me I should be healed, I didn't have enough faith. That was absolutely the worst thing anyone has done to me!! She died after breast cancer metastasized when she refused treatment, because she had claimed healing.

So I do agree Pentecostals are a lot milder. They do believe in healing, but not to the extent that the "Name It & Claim It" group does! I do think Bethel has a lot of underpinnings with WOF, but they add a lot of lies to it, like angels wings and glitter.
The idea that if you have faith you can be healed was a belief that some in the faith cure movement had back in the 1800s. My understanding is that some in the Pentecostal movement would have thought of healing that way. There was also a Pentecostal church that formed in Zion, Illinois that had people formally had been with Dowie. There were a number of A/G ministers that had lived in Zion, and also plenty of Pentecostals from independent congregations and the CMA.

A lot of WOF doctrine draws from believes that some Pentecostals would have held to, but not others, mixed with Kenyon. Some Pentecostals liked the WOF movement but stayed in Pentecostalism, but there were others that did not, and preached against aspects of it. A lot of the WOF preachers would come up with innovative doctrines and statements, as if they were trying to say something new that sounded shocking and contrary to what people believed. The A/G has some position papers on various topics, including disagreement with some of the ideas of WOF, if I am not mistaken.

The late Kenneth Hagin seemed to think God just allowed calamities and did not cause them. That doesn't fit the thinking of those who read Exodus and other parts of the Bible or just went to Sunday school, including a lot of Pentecostals. Being raised Pentecostal, some of the WOF movement teachings and attitude about money seemed unseemly. It seemed like some of the WOF movement preachers, say, in the 1980s, had 80 or 100 verses they read, and preached the same sermons topics over and over about positive confession, healing, getting more money through faith, etc.

My biggest concerns with the movement were the really weak view about God's sovereignty Hagin taught, and a lot of specific strange teachings-- not to pray 'thy will be done', theories about 'Jesus died spiritually', and an emphasis on having faith to get money that seemed to me to encourage greed. There were some real extreme examples of that on TV at 2 AM like Tilton, and Popoff-- with the miracle oil and all that. Popoff might not have been accepted as one of the group by other WOFers. I think some of them accepted Tilton as a real preacher, at least early on. I'm not sure about later.

It seems like WOF as a distinct movement is kind of getting watered down, mixing in with seeker sensitive, mega-church style, and getting influenced by Bethel's emphases. I visited a couple of churches and found out they were historically WOF or the preachers went to rhema, and the feel of the service and to some extent the emphasis in teaching had changed from when I was exposed to WOF in the '80's and '90's (mostly on TV.)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I suppose you must deliberately overlook the fact that the KJ Bible is itself a
translation while you make the inane claim that there is no need of translators...
Since we have the KJV, no need for further translations.