Which bible version is the original one?

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MightyLionOfJuda

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#61
#61
well if you are not willing to fast because you want this scripture to say what you are indicating than there is a big ,big problem but if you are honestly correct in what you are saying ,I fail to see how fasting added under these circumstances would be bad.Ive never ,ever been brought farther away from God by fasting but have always grown closer in prayer by practicing this.I guess if it was added it is in a way a mixed blessing for a lot of believers who need to have stronger prayer lives because in a time of fasting ,you can really lean to God in prayer in a closer,selfless way.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#62
Jan 8, 2009
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#62
So you're getting closer to God by good works and not by faith? Don't worry I'm kidding.

And yes I don't fast personally I don't see it's necessary.
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#63
#63
well if you ever feel led to fast by God you should,I know it is very beneficial in many ways as I have been trying to do it more lately. Dont ask me to go on any 40 day fasts tho,not just yet anyway :D
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

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#64
#64
MightyLionOfJuda said:
well if you ever feel led to fast by God you should,I know it is very beneficial in many ways as I have been trying to do it more lately. Dont ask me to go on any 40 day fasts tho,not just yet anyway :D
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Fasting can be an awesome experience if done with all the right motives. I recommend a three day fast at least once a month for those who are able. Not only is it good for you spiritually but also physically seeing as it detoxifies the body.

As for the original bible, I'd say the hebrew one. ;)
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#65
#65
charisenexcelcis said:
GreatKaw. I did not say nor do I believe that the KJV is a poor translation. Nevertheless, if you take the same assuptions, that the Dead Sea Scrolls were put away because they were inferior and therefore we should use the later manuscripts we would not benefit from them. The KJV translated the OT before the Dead Sea scrolls and so they are part of the discussion.
You knowledge of the manuscripts are flawed and prejudiced. As for disagreements, because the Greek language is one based upon the word form rather than order, the vast majority of the differences do not effect translation, but you should know that if you have a year of serious Greek study. Not only does the KJV have majority test support, but so does almost every other translation. Now as for pushing agendas, what is yours. What is your stake in the KJV. Why aren't you talking about the translation of specific verses rather than staying in the generic argument that you are.
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I like accuracy.
Things in red I did not say and do not believe.

Sinaiaticus and Vaticanus also have nothing to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The major differences in the NT Greek Text are between the Majority of manuscripts(as represented by the KJV) and the so called neutral text which is an arbitrary combination of the two(Sinaiaticus and Vaticanus).

"The Codex Sinaiticus has been corrected by so many hands that it affords a most interesting and intricate problem to the palaeographer who wishes to disentangle the various stages by which it has reached its present condition…." (Codex Sinaiticus - New Testament volume; page xvii of the introduction).

The Dead Sea scrolls are not at issue. The issue is the choice of underlying NT Greek Text.
With exception of KJV(NKJV etc) all other translations are the product of this arbitrary amalgamation of two codexes. Sinaiaticus literally found in the bottom of a trash can.
Vaticanus lost in the Vatican library for centuries gathering dust.
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#66
#66
MahogonySnail said:
And yes I don't fast personally I don't see it's necessary.
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one more thing to think about and that is Jesus in (Matt. 4:1-11; Mark 1:12-13; Luke 4:1-4) when
Jesus had gone 40 days in prayer without eating.He was fasting and praying together and I want to follow after Christs footsteps so to say that fasting is a jewish custom or traditon is completely ridiculous considering our Lord and Saviour had practiced it.When the time comes to fast you need to obey the voice of God and that is necessary.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#67
Jan 8, 2009
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#67
ahhh.. hang on..wasn't Jesus a Jew? Jesus fasted... yes! Jewish custom. I mean tradition as a dead man-made tradition - that fasting can bring you closer to God. Actually when Jesus fasted for 40 days it brought him closer to the devil. Think about it.

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast and a day pleasing to Jehovah?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? To loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed ones go free, and that you break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to break your bread to the hungry, and that you should bring home the wandering poor? When will you see the naked and cover him; and you will not hide yourself from your own flesh?
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#68
#68
I rebuke that! You really need to pray about what youve just said because I have never heard such ridiculous nonsense.Fasting does not bring you closer to the devil and Jesus was not doing this out of jewish custom.In case you dont know Jesus did not obey every law of the pharisees nor would he support this ridiculous claim that he was fasting out of obligation to this.Remember that the Pharisees constantly tried tricking him and catch him being unlawful to their laws and traditions.In such an example here Mark 2:23 One Sabbath he was going through the grainfields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain.
Mark 2:24 And the Pharisees were saying to him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
Mark 2:25 And he said to them, "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Mark 2:26 how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?"
Mark 2:27 And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.


If you ever tried fasting and praying you would not make such a ridiculous claim saying it makes you weaker or brings you closer to satan.The whole emphasiz of the story was that his spirit was stronger than his flesh and so needs to be with us and under discipline such as fasting with prayer can we bring our fleshly desires under submittion
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#69
#69
Under your own doctrine of enduring and being completely obedient to God if He tells you to fast and you dont you are not only going against God but against your own doctrine
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#70
Jan 8, 2009
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#70
I rebuke that! You really need to pray about what youve just said because I have never heard such ridiculous nonsense.Fasting does not bring you closer to the devil and Jesus was not doing this out of jewish custom.In case you dont know Jesus did not obey every law of the pharisees nor would he support this ridiculous claim that he was fasting out of obligation to this.Remember that the Pharisees constantly tried tricking him and catch him being unlawful to their laws and traditions.In such an example here Mark 2:23 One Sabbath he was going through the grainfields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain.
Mark 2:24 And the Pharisees were saying to him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
Mark 2:25 And he said to them, "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Mark 2:26 how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?"
Mark 2:27 And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
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Jesus was a devout Jew was He not? But the fasting of Christ was OK, the rules and regulations on fasting and man-made traditions that led to them adding the word fasting in the scriptures is not. Just look up the fasting traditions of the catholic church which is more like ascetism.

I can't be rebuked for anything I have said because it is all true, I find your rebukes funny. First of all, the Spirit led Christ into the desert to be tempted by satan. There he fasted 40 days. So yes, it did bring Christ closer to satan, to be tempted by him, to be tested and tried. Satan personally talked to Christ, was personally taken by satan to various places, etc etc. So yes Jesus did have a closer encounter with satan than he would have if he did not fast and go into the desert. It was no walk in the park. You say you'd like to try a 40 day fast like Christ did but you know the whole purpose of that was to allow Christ to be tempted. Because I don't think the Son of God would need to "feel closer to God". That sort of defeats your argument. Anyway as in the verse I quoted above if you want to get even closer to God than fasting will bring you, give to the poor or something. You see God values service to others higher than subjective ascetic experiences we may have in our own prayer/fasting times, as valuable and potentially pleasant as they are.



If you ever tried fasting and praying you would not make such a ridiculous claim saying it makes you weaker or brings you closer to satan.The whole emphasiz of the story was that his spirit was stronger than his flesh and so needs to be with us and under discipline such as fasting with prayer can we bring our fleshly desires under submittion
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Fasting is not only a time of being drawn closer to God (if that were even possible in reality anyway), but also a time of being tested and tempted by satan. Now please quote one verse in the bible where it says we fast to bring our fleshly desires under submission?
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#71
#71
despite what you want to believe,fasting is a time of spiritual growth and yes there can be testings and if you fail those tests than the fast did no good.Its fasting and prayer though and only when done together are they beneficial and I wont speak for you ,only for myself.God has led me to fast at different points in my life and I have never been brought to a place where I fell because of it but was actually strengthened and brought closer to Him through it.That is my experience with fasting and like I said earlier,"I am in no way ready for a 40 day fast".
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

Guest
#72
#72
MahogonySnail said:
Because I don't think the Son of God would need to "feel closer to God".
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thats funny the fact that you would say Jesus didn't need to get any closer to God.Wow I cant believe you said that! I wonder why Jesus spent so much time praying?I guess it was because he didnt need to feel close to the father and He was just praying for no reason at all.Just because Jesus was God doesnt mean they arent separate.They are separate but are all one, but still contrary to your ridiculous statement they are a father and son.I know its hard for you to understand but thats the problem. Ive noticed with you is there is very little difference between you and an athiests or humanist in the sense that everything must be explained in simple logic.We are talking about deep spiritual things,the mysteries of God and sometimes our human minds cannot comprehend these things.sorry to break it to you.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#73
Jan 8, 2009
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#73
He's the Son of God, God Himself in fact (let's not debate the trinity again, im just saying)... why would He need to feel closer to Himself?
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't spend so much time praying to "feel close to God", but rather to petition the Father for his and his disciples daily needs. The only time he seems to indicate He missed God's presence was on the cross when he said "why have you forsake me". While you've successfully tried to portray the Son of God as another fallible human being like you or I, I do think having the very nature of God Himself He was a little less "needy" as many of us are today.

Ive noticed with you is there is very little difference between you and an athiests or humanist in the sense that everything must be explained in simple logic.
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Are you suggesting that complex logic is required to understand the things of God? I use simple logic because many false arguments and doctrines do not stand its test. The more heretical a doctrine, the more complex it is to understand or explain (usually).

So why do you want to do a 40 day fast? To be like Jesus? To look down upon us who don't fast as if you are somehow better? Actually according to what Christ said about not letting others know you are fasting, you've probably broken those rules and your fasting is invalid.
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

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#74
#74
that is His father,He had a close relationship with His father and led by example for us saying we should have a close relationship with Him in the exact same way.They are father and son despite them being one,like I said its too deep to understand completely but I highly doubt that all the time that Jesus spent praying was for needs ,in fact he has the power of God and could command anything to happen but had a relationship with His father to see what the fathers will was .To see Gods will you do need to be close to Him and draw nigh unto Him.Jesus was leading by example whether He actually needed to be close to His Father or not.
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

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#75
#75
MightyLionOfJuda said:
thats funny the fact that you would say Jesus didn't need to get any closer to God.Wow I cant believe you said that! I wonder why Jesus spent so much time praying?I guess it was because he didnt need to feel close to the father and He was just praying for no reason at all.Just because Jesus was God doesnt mean they arent separate.They are separate but are all one, but still contrary to your ridiculous statement they are a father and son.I know its hard for you to understand but thats the problem. Ive noticed with you is there is very little difference between you and an athiests or humanist in the sense that everything must be explained in simple logic.We are talking about deep spiritual things,the mysteries of God and sometimes our human minds cannot comprehend these things.sorry to break it to you.
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He makes a point. The bible does say in various places in scripture that Jesus grew both in favor and faith, not that Jesus was ever void of either in the first place.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#76
#76
Actually, God invented logic. Therefore he will always pass a logic test. If he does not appear to then we have the problem.

In the same way, God defines good.

'God is not good' is an absurd statement.

Like...


'Everything I say is a lie'
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

Guest
#77
#77
our logic is not neccessarily Gods logic
 
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MightyLionOfJuda

Guest
#79
#79
MahogonySnail said:
So why do you want to do a 40 day fast? To be like Jesus? To look down upon us who don't fast as if you are somehow better? Actually according to what Christ said about not letting others know you are fasting, you've probably broken those rules and your fasting is invalid.
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When did I ever indicate that I was better than you for fasting,nor did I mention how long Ive fasted or when I fasted so that is ridiculous to say that I am trying to brag myself up.I am saying that if God tells you to fast you are to fast or else you are being disobedient.That is not my opinion but is a reality that you must face if God tells you to fast! The way you get defensive and attack me indicates that maybe you have been led to fast but didnt and not doing so can be justifiable in your mind when you rationalize everything with your own logic ,twisting scriptures and their entire message.Be obedient to God above all else!
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#80
Jan 8, 2009
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#80
I've never been led to fast so haven't, and I don't need to boast about it either even if I did fast.
 
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