Which gospel?

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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That's all well and good sometimes, but then you would miss (as most ppl do) the distinct meanings of the two different "WITH" words I endeavored to point out (and where they are used, specifically, for each of the distinct contexts being discussed): "WITH [G3326 - ACCOMPANYING]" (re: the 10 Virgins [or 5, rather]) versus the "WITH [G4862 - UNION-with]" (used of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / US!). Most ppl totally miss that, because they say, to some other parts of the body, "I have NO NEED OF *YOU*!"

Amill-teachings, for example, miss a very important point involving two distinct words for "THEN" (one meaning more like, "then immediately [/or consequently]" whereas the other means more like "then SEQUENTIALLY [with NO reference to "TIME" attached to it]"... therefore, they MISCONSTRUE what 1Cor15:24 is actually conveying, and have it sayin something IT DOES NOT.

So, I'm just saying that at times, it makes a MASSIVE *IMPACT* to know which Greek word is being used, in any given context.

Thank you for the tips, though. I will (and always try to) take them to heart. I do realize my "speech" is crude, by others' standards (and ways of typing/conveying thought on here).
Do you think that all or majority of people who understand Greek/Hebrew have the same position that you do?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Very sad indeed. He TELLS us on his profile page he doesn't know if he is saved or not.
Saved or not saved is God to declare. The rest of us only HOPE and nobody hopes for what they already have.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Saved or not saved is God to declare. The rest of us only HOPE and nobody hopes for what they already have.
God declares His children by giving them a NEW heart, making them a NEW creation. He is GREATLY offended by those trying to add to the work His Son did on the cross.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Can’t move beyond principle doctrines if you aren’t saved to begin with.
Are you a saved born again Child of God or not?
Ya read my profile right?

I "hope" I am! Yet, not knowing!
As all believers should be!
Don't settle for "common salvation!"
Press on towards spiritual maturity.


"You don't have to read or study the Bible!"
"Yer saved!" "Them bad 'ol people are gonna suffer tribulation!"
"I'm not worried!" "I'm not gonna be here!" "I'll be RAPTURED!"
Yeah? "horse hockey!"
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Ya read my profile right?

I "hope" I am! Yet, not knowing!
As all believers should be!
Don't settle for "common salvation!"
Press on towards spiritual maturity.


"You don't have to read or study the Bible!"
"Yer saved!" "Them bad 'ol people are gonna suffer tribulation!"
"I'm not worried!" "I'm not gonna be here!" "I'll be RAPTURED!"
Yeah? "horse hockey!"
How does a person "press on to maturity" if they haven't even been born again?

Unless of course you ADD works to what Jesus did! Very very BAD thing to do. God is not happy with those that add to what His Son did.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Virginia
www.youtube.com
Not it at all! Tis about moving beyond the "Principle doctrines of Christ", and spiritually sacrificing "things" "acceptable to God BY Jesus Christ!

Ya think it's about being saved?
It ain't!
It's about what efforts it takes to keep from "believing a lie!"
It's about what efforts it takes to keep oneself from being "cut off."
It's about what effort/s to do so Jesus doesn't reject one!
Spiritual maturity is not "given!"
It takes EFFORT/S!
Spiritual maturity is a "progressive process." (God's consuming fire)
If yer not moving forward?
Yer moving backwards! (becoming stagnant)
The path of the righteous is the like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter until the full light of day. Unless we give up everything we have, He said we cannot be His disciples. It's not the Magic Kingdom. That doesn't happen day one. That's why Paul compares it to the long distance race in 1 Cor. 9. And even why he exhorts Timothy:

"Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

And just a bit of wisdom again, it's interesting that in both 1st and 2nd Timothy we are strongly warned against quarreling. There is a time to shake the dust off the flip flops! :)
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
How does a person "press on to maturity" if they haven't even been born again?

Unless of course you ADD works to what Jesus did! Very very BAD thing to do. God is not happy with those that add to what His Son did.
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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God declares His children by giving them a NEW heart, making them a NEW creation. He is GREATLY offended by those trying to add to the work His Son did on the cross.
Christ reconciled everyone and everything, so everyone was recreated and given a new heart. The second part is from you and you alone.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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What are you identifying as "our slumber of death [at...]"?? (that we are to "awake from" at that time, according to your viewpoint)?
Our physical bodies sleep in death, but will be awakened and raised up again when Christ returns. Some will be raised up to eternal life, others to eternal damnation.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
“A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked.” – Mark 14:51-52
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
The path of the righteous is the like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter until the full light of day. Unless we give up everything we have, He said we cannot be His disciples. It's not the Magic Kingdom. That doesn't happen day one. That's why Paul compares it to the long distance race in 1 Cor. 9. And even why he exhorts Timothy:

"Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

And just a bit of wisdom again, it's interesting that in both 1st and 2nd Timothy we are strongly warned against quarreling. There is a time to shake the dust off the flip flops! :)
That's what gets me about people like this.
Are we not suppose to become Christlike?
Do they really believe that onced yer baptized, yer instantly in the image of Christ? Really?
If they only understood all the "falseness" of doctrines, and traditions of men that have eroded "the faith" for millennia.
:cry:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Christ reconciled everyone and everything, so everyone was recreated and given a new heart. The second part is from you and you alone.
Yeah...... NO!

You got some weird doctrines champ!
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
“A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked.” – Mark 14:51-52
Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
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Our physical bodies sleep in death, but will be awakened and raised up again when Christ returns. Some will be raised up to eternal life, others to eternal damnation.
What do you do with:

--the fact that not all of us will DIE; some are the "we which are alive and remain UNTO" [unto a particular, per THIS context]

--and I believe you are using the Daniel 12:1-4,10 [1,6-7,12,13 for its TIMING] passage, which I believe is often MISTAKEN for a "physical/bodily resurrection [from being formerly physically/bodily DEAD]"... but which passage PARALLELS (for one [I listed a number of others]), Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, which is specifically in the CONTEXT of the nation of Israel coming up out of "the graveyard of nations [WHERE SCATTERED]" -- and NOTE what the WISE [OF THEM] THEN go on TO DO from that particular point in time (at this "mid-point" time-slot)... "they that turn many to righteousness" (very similarly to the wording in the parallel Hosea 5:15-6:3 passage I listed with them/it [also LIKENED TO a "resurrection" of sorts ("raise")], which is ALSO speaking specifically of ISRAEL [at a specific, future time period])


Thoughts on these two items??
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Yeah...... NO!

You got some weird doctrines champ!
I'm fine with weird things in the bible.

Col 1:
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of g your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Like i said, we hope and continue to hope.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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NOWHERE in the passage does it EVER say they had, or EVER had any oil.
That's what I'm saying!
Your point that even a dry wick will burn for a moment is well taken, just as it's equally true that the lamp won't continue to burn if there's no oil left in the lamp and none in the flask to refill it. The point is, they did not have any oil when Christ returned. They died lost. They were not ready for his appearing.

You can argue your once saved always saved blather all day long, but it doesn't matter if you don't have the Spirit because you never had it, or because you lost it when you went back to unbelief. The result is the same. You won't be saved when Jesus returns without faith in Christ.

People who say even unbelievers will be saved when Jesus comes back is spewing doctrine that flies in the face of this parable and many other passages in the bible. I'm curious, what part of these particular passages do you not understand?

Hebrews 3:6 ...whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

You'd do better to at least go back to the original once saved always saved doctrine that says the one who has fallen was never saved to begin with. But this doctrine in the church today that says you can even go back to unbelief and you are still saved is horrible! There are too many passages that say the person who is not trusting Christ in faith is not saved.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,555
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That's what I'm saying!
Your point that even a dry wick will burn for a moment is well taken, just as it's equally true that the lamp won't continue to burn if there's no oil left in the lamp and none in the flask to refill it. The point is, they did not have any oil when Christ returned. They died lost. They were not ready for his appearing.

You can argue your once saved always saved blather all day long, but it doesn't matter if you don't have the Spirit because you never had it, or because you lost it when you went back to unbelief. The result is the same. You won't be saved when Jesus returns without faith in Christ.

People who say even unbelievers will be saved when Jesus comes back is spewing doctrine that flies in the face of this parable and many other passages in the bible. I'm curious, what part of these particular passages do you not understand?

Hebrews 3:6 ...whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

You'd do better to at least go back to the original once saved always saved doctrine that says the one who has fallen was never saved to begin with. But this doctrine in the church today that says you can even go back to unbelief and you are still saved is horrible! There are too many passages that say the person who is not trusting Christ in faith is not saved.
Please go back earlier in this thread and refute the MOUNTAIN of Scripture that says otherwise.

But at least we both agree that these people NEVER had oil, NEVER had the Holy Spirit and were NEVER saved.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,555
9,067
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I'm fine with weird things in the bible.

Col 1:
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of g your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Like i said, we hope and continue to hope.
Yup Nice Scripture.. And the point?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,555
9,067
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Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
“A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands.” – Proverbs 27:15-16
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
Do they really believe that onced yer baptized, yer instantly in the image of Christ? Really?
Are you talking "at cross-purposes" with [member] RebuildJesussChurch?

I get that impression, from what you are saying here (and what he himself has been conveying in his posts).

I think you two are "LIKING" each others' posts apart from actually comprehending them, perhaps?


[it's just... I've seen that over and over again in my some 45-yrs as a believer... ppl joining-in-with-others (esp so as to be "against-others-still") of whom they haven't the slightest clue as to what their "beliefs" stem from (falsehoods, etc)]