WHO IS ENOCH AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN TO ME?

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Sep 9, 2018
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#1
In Genesis 5:22 and 24 we see Enoch. So, before the flood happened, even in the midst of all that wickedness, Enoch walked with God! Now what's neat about division, and types and figures in the Bible . . . every grounded Bible believer that has studied the Ark of Noah knows that it can be used as a type of Christ. And when you received Him by faith, He put you in and closed the door. That's a good type. But doctrinally, according to Scripture, Noah is a type of the Jew going through the Tribulation period. Why? Because God's wrath was upon the world. And the Great Tribulation is like the world never saw. And who is going to be protected? The Jews that get in the ark. Those are the remnant-that flee to Petra when the Antichrist is revealed for who he is at the desolation of abomination.

"And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Genesis 5:21-24).

See, if you read your Bible and get these things, you start to see these pictures and you connect them and you ask, "Who is Enoch a representation of?" Well, let's see. If the Jews go through the Tribulation period--the church doesn't--we walk with God. If you go to Hebrews, you read:

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Enoch was translated and he didn't see God. So the rapture happens before Noah. And how do we know when it is getting close? Because the Lord Jesus says, "in the days of Noah and Lot . . .". And you know it has to be globally, and globally we are in it. What is recorded that Lot did, and the bunch from Sodom and Gomorrah, it's happening now. And the wickedness is made normal. To people, it is just normal to think certain ways . . . but not scripturally. So there is a global mindset going on, all these things, are a result of what they value.

Enoch proves a pre-tribulation rapture.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#3
Interesting point. I have heard of this.
I remember seeing a website once with a list of types of the pre-trib rapture from the old testament. One of them was the gentile bride escaping Jericho (If my memory serves me correct)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#4
Enoch was translated and he didn't see God. So the rapture happens before Noah. And how do we know when it is getting close? Because the Lord Jesus says, "in the days of Noah and Lot . . .". And you know it has to be globally, and globally we are in it. What is recorded that Lot did, and the bunch from Sodom and Gomorrah, it's happening now. And the wickedness is made normal. To people, it is just normal to think certain ways . . . but not scripturally. So there is a global mindset going on, all these things, are a result of what they value.
To be translated does not mean that he did not experience the first death . We are born into a corrupted body of death. Flesh and blood (corrupted) as that which ages in a process of dying and decay cannot enter the kingdom of God

Its appointed for all to die once them comes the judgment. Eternal life to the believer and eternal death to those who are not elected to salvation.

Jesus informs us regarding what happens after death in John 3:13 , Who would know better than Jesus as one has ascended to heaven but He that came down from heaven, "This means Himself. "No one" certainly includes Enoch.

Peter declares in Acts 2:29-34 that one as great as David has not risen to heaven either, but was still in the temporal grave. All of the old testament saints to include Enoch were translated or transferred from the temporal holding place, the invisible presence of God called Abraham bosom to the New heavenly Jerusalem the City prepared as His bride also called the eternal land of Israel .

The promise Ezekiel 37:12

Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, Ezekiel 37:12

The fulfillment of translation (transferred ) or time of reformation is found in Matthew 27:51-53. The first resurrection when those saints who were sleeping arose witnessed by many angels.

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Matthew 27:51-53
 
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#5
Enoch was translate "that he should not see death' . . . yet, it is believed that he will see death eventually as one of the two witnesses . . .

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them" (Revelation 11:3-7).

from which they will soon be resurrected . . .

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them" (Revelation 11:8-12).

The translation of Enoch in Genesis 5 does not suggest or demand that Enoch went any where other than to Abraham's bosom. He was 'translated,' not brought back from the dead - so he could not be a first fruit.

Elijah also rose up into a chariot of fire - not heaven - he went to his fathers in paradise. He too will die in the future.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#6
Should be . . . "Enoch was translated and he didn't see wrath"

I would agree to say he did not see the first death would simply support the necromancy doctrines that come from lies .

Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:23

Necromancy a Catholic foundation for opening up the air ways to seek after the dead as workers with familiar spirits that they must call patron saints. Therefore destroying by making the one manner we can seek the our living God for the dead (unbelieves ) to no effect .

As usual the father of lies turns things upside down to take away the understanding of the Potter

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:19-20

The word seek (darash in Hebrew) is used two ways. In Isaiah the first instance of heathen gods, necromancers. And the second of our father is heaven the one manner.

Darash to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require
  1. to resort to, frequent (a place), (tread a place)
  2. to consult, enquire of, seek
    1. of God
    2. of heathen gods, necromancers
  3. to seek deity in prayer and worship
    1. God
    2. heathen deities
  4. to seek (with a demand), demand, require
  5. to investigate, enquire
  6. to ask for, require, demand
  7. to practice, study, follow, seek with application
  8. to seek with care, care for
  9. (Niphal)
    1. to allow oneself to be enquired of, consulted (only of God)
    2. to be sought, be sought out
    3. to be required (of blood)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#7
Enoch was translate "that he should not see death' . . . yet, it is believed that he will see death eventually as one of the two witnesses . . .

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them" (Revelation 11:3-7).

from which they will soon be resurrected . . .

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them" (Revelation 11:8-12).

The translation of Enoch in Genesis 5 does not suggest or demand that Enoch went any where other than to Abraham's bosom. He was 'translated,' not brought back from the dead - so he could not be a first fruit.

Elijah also rose up into a chariot of fire - not heaven - he went to his fathers in paradise. He too will die in the future.
The two witnesses are as that which is written "the law and the prophets"(sola scriptura) And not the witness of men seen. We walk by a exclusive faith that comes from hearing God, not seen.

1 John 5:9-10 King James Version (KJV) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to be called a infallible witness (daysman) in respect to his flesh.But rather gave glory to God, not seen, saying only God is good.
 
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#8
>>>Should be . . . "Enoch was translated and he didn't see wrath" <<<

This is embarrassing!

I must have been tired when I wrote this . . . should be

Should be . . . "Enoch was translated and he didn't see death"
 
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#9
The two witnesses are as that which is written "the law and the prophets"(sola scriptura) And not the witness of men seen. We walk by a exclusive faith that comes from hearing God, not seen.

1 John 5:9-10 King James Version (KJV) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to be called a infallible witness (daysman) in respect to his flesh.But rather gave glory to God, not seen, saying only God is good.
Are you seriously suggesting that Hebrews 11:5 is wrong? Do you believe that Enoch died and the verse was translated as it was due to the influence of a necromancer on the translation committee?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#10
Enoch was translate "that he should not see death' . . . yet, it is believed that he will see death eventually as one of the two witnesses . . .
Hey brother.

Do you believe this as well? That Enoch is one of the two witnesses coming back? How does that work if he was translated and didnt see death? I dont think we can come back after the rapture in glorified bodies and die.
Was Enoch translated differently as you mentioned to paradise (not heaven) or what?
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#11
Hey brother.

Do you believe this as well? That Enoch is one of the two witnesses coming back? How does that work if he was translated and didnt see death? I dont think we can come back after the rapture in glorified bodies and die.
Was Enoch translated differently as you mentioned to paradise (not heaven) or what?
Enoch is not in any glorified body . . . he is in Abraham's bosom (paradise). Based on the verse, he is still a viable human being. He will appear bodily during the Tribulation to witness to the Jews going through God's wrath.

Does that help?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#12
Enoch is not in any glorified body . . . he is in Abraham's bosom. Based on the verse, he is still a viable human being. He will appear bodily during the Tribulation to witness to the Jews going through God's wrath.

Does that help?
Sure. Is he resurrected like Lazarus then? Or just kind of "harpazod" back like Philip was transported instantly?
 
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#13
Sure. Is he resurrected like Lazarus then? Or just kind of "harpazod" back like Philip was transported instantly?
We are limited in scope by the little that Scripture gives us, which is he did not see death. Remember, Lazarus died and was in the tomb three days - so he did die.

Enoch's translation was a supernatural event which God uses to picture the church being removed from the earth while the Jews enter the flood of the tribulation. The remnant will flee to the caves of Petra (the ark) where they will be secure for the final 3 1/2 years of the time of Jacob's trouble.

It is interesting to me how so many people try to insist that the church (Gentiles) need somehow to participate in a season which God specifically calls 'the time of Jacob's (Jews) trouble!'

As to Philip, I suppose there are some similarities - we could say that he was 'translated' to another location.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#14
Enoch is not in any glorified body . . . he is in Abraham's bosom (paradise). Based on the verse, he is still a viable human being. He will appear bodily during the Tribulation to witness to the Jews going through God's wrath.

Does that help?
Sorry to say, but there is no paradise. Enoch and Elijah both died. No prophets will come back from the dead, God does not work that way. John the Baptist came as Elijah "in spirit and power" as per Gabriel's statement (Luke 1:17). Finally, there is no pretribulational rapture.

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Sep 9, 2018
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#15
Sorry to say, but there is no paradise. Enoch and Elijah both died. No prophets will come back from the dead, God does not work that way. John the Baptist came as Elijah "in spirit and power" as per Gabriel's statement (Luke 1:17). Finally, there is no pretribulational rapture.

View attachment 188326
Apparently you do not believe that the Bible is a supernatural document inspired and preserved by God Himself?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#16
You may find this incredible, but I have been wrong before however regarding prophets of God, the only Two I recall from the Word are the Two Witnesses mentioned in Zechariah and Revelation specifically. Of course there will be false prophets for days, already have been.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#17
Apparently you do not believe that the Bible is a supernatural document inspired and preserved by God Himself?
Oh, I do. But you are twisting scriptures to fit your own view. Whether you know it or not you are in bed with the RCC. :cool:
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#18
Are you seriously suggesting that Hebrews 11:5 is wrong? Do you believe that Enoch died and the verse was translated as it was due to the influence of a necromancer on the translation committee?
I think the verse is translated correctly it the words as to how they are used that seem to be the difference.

Translated is to be transferred. The Old testament saints that were promised their graves would be opened were translated(transferred) from the grave to the heavenly city as the bride of Christ. the first resurrection.

Necromancy would be those who chase after flesh and blood as if it could enter heaven . its one of the oral traditions as lies Peter sought after.

Rachel in the old testament hid the idol imagers (teraphims) from her fahter that was used to put a face of s disembodied workers with familiar spirits again what the Catholics call patron saints . when it comes up it comes up as a legion (many) as id why a idol image is used .

When Josish found the book of the law the bible (sola scriptura) he was moved by the Holy Spirit to perform the word of God

2 Kings 23:23-24 King James Version (KJV) But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, wherein this passover was holden to the Lord in Jerusalem. Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

Again it as it is written with the word it representing the faith of God or hearing of faith destroys the foundation of Catholicism
 
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#19
Oh, I do. But you are twisting scriptures to fit your own view. Whether you know it or not you are in bed with the RCC. :cool:
Scripture says that Enoch and Elijah did not die . . . you insist they did. Therefore, I conclude that you do not believe Scripture.

How do you figure that my belief in an inerrant Bible is somehow RCC?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#20
Scripture says that Enoch and Elijah did not die . . . you insist they did. Therefore, I conclude that you do not believe Scripture.

How do you figure that my belief in an inerrant Bible is somehow RCC?

It's what the RCC believe as a foundation of necromancy .

Peter believed the same oral tradition of men as a lie. "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die:)"

If every time Jesus had to dispel the oral traditions of men that do make the tradition of God 's word without effect as the scriptures say.... the books that could be written would not fit in this world .

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to theeThis is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.John 21:22-25

The RCC uses that same portion of scripture to approve of the oral or what they call Devine Sacred Traditions of their fathers as a law of men again turning things upside down as if scripture was loosed from earth and bound in heaven .