Who is the first and second beast? (1 from sea, 1 from earth)

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Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
139
55
28
#1
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
253
131
43
near Montreal, quebec
#2
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?

Dear isaskar, i do not think the beast was revealed yet but the way things are going now, it might be in be in our lifetimes, as for the mark of the beast some say it has to do with the code-bars, I found this funny when i heard this but all code bars start with a 6, then a 6 in the middle and a 6 at the end, this is true for all code-bars. the mark could be an implant ( RFID CHIP) or a permanent invisible tattoo ( the MIT is working on this) on the hand or even forehead? What is scary is thet the technology for the mark does exist at this time.. think of the Chinese social credit system of the vaccine passport, these are the prelude to the mark in my opinion. for the number itself we do not know yet but it can be calculated, some say it is Macron président de la république Française...

I am not certain about from the sea from the earth but many people here are far more knowledgeable than I and could comment, from what verses do these verses come from in relelation?



Peace.
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
139
55
28
#3
I am not certain about from the sea from the earth but many people here are far more knowledgeable than I and could comment, from what verses do these verses come from in relelation?



Peace.
Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name

Revelation 13:11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon

One from the sea, one from the earth. Very interesting dynamics. Bible is an amazing book. Thank you for your contributions brother.

I have been looking into this and I am very convinced this has something to do with Rome, as Rome was wounded, and will probably return in some form or fashion. Catholicism has always been there too, many say the Pope is the little horn of Daniel.
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
253
131
43
near Montreal, quebec
#4
Friend in Christ, many years ago, I have read a booklet from an American preacher now deceased. he wrote interesting literature of some value. His analysis of certain topics is remarkable.

Here is a link that gives clues about the beast it is referenced and well constructed, I am reading it again now. It is free and you can download it from the link below;

https://www.thetrumpet.com/literature/books_and_booklets/387

some other booklets were added after his death but i did not read them, when he died, vultures of this congregation were disputing who would succeed, unfortunately the ones who succeeded were in my opinion not worthy.

So you know I am not part of their organization and I am not pushing their views.

Blessings and let me know what you think, of Mr. Armstrong's booklet on the topic.

JF
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,909
2,906
113
#5
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
Well, a common belief about who the first beast is is that it’s Rome, specifically the Papacy. The Papacy is not mentioned by name in the Bible, not the exact identity of the beast mentioned either. Therefore it does require wisdom and understanding to figure out who the beast is. There are many theories and all of the theories refer to non-Biblical figures such as Nero, the Papacy, or Islam just to name a few examples.

Islam does have a branch on eschatology, too, and it’s essentially the reverse of Christian eschatology. I’ll try to explain now.

Is Islam, before the “day of judgement” or “day of the Lord” in Christianity, an Islamic man will appear during a time of tribulation and rule the world for 7 years. This man is know in Islamic eschatology as the “Mahdi.”

As I said, Islamic eschatology is like a reverse of Christian eschatology. In Christian eschatology, the one who will rule the world is the beast, also known as the anti-Christ. Those who don’t submit to the anti-Christ will be beheaded per Revelation 20:4. As you correctly pointed out, beheadings fit the Islamic ticket.

Islam also believes in Jesus Christ. They don’t believe in Jesus Christ the same way Christians do. They believe after the “day of judgement” that Jesus will return and destroy Christianity. Islamic eschatology is a reverse of Christianity. In Islam the good guy comes followed by another good guy. In Christianity a bad guy comes first followed by Jesus the good guy.

The second beast is the false prophet per Revelation 13:11 “he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.” This is the one who comes after the first beast, aka anti-Christ and is known as the false prophet or in Islam Isa son of Maryam. Being like a lamb and speaking like a dragon is a pretty good description of Isa son of Maryam.

Another piece of supplemental information is the “bismillah” and “666” in Greek. The bismillah is an Islamic symbol and 666 is the number of the beast. Imho, I don’t think that’s a coincidence, but rather a prophetic clue. I’ll post a picture of the bismillah next to 666 in Greek below.


The similarity is striking.

In conclusion, first beast is the Islamic Mahdi.

Second beast is Isa Son of Maryam.

Mark/number of the beast will be the bismillah written on their forehead, typically worn as a bandanna by some Islamic sects, which looks like 666 in Greek.

So it’s my belief that by the time all of this transpires, Islam will have swelled its numbers dramatically compared to Christianity and will have conquered the world. True Christians will die for their fair on before ever denying Christ and Jesus will return after the great-tribulation to essentially save the world, destroy all enemies of the cross, and setup His millennial kingdom
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,909
2,906
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#6
They'll have to publicly worship the beast (the Islamic figure called the Mahdi) so that it's apparent they aren't hiding who their loyalty belongs to per Revelation 13:12 and 15.

There is a mark, a name, and a number of the beast.

Revelation 13:16,17
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Mark = could possibly be something known to Muslims as a prayer bump. It's a mark on the forehead of some Muslims, due to the friction generated by repeated contact of the forehead with the prayer mat during daily prayers. It comes from obsessively worhsipping.

Name = I believe the name of the beast is the bismillah. Bismillah translates in English to "In the name of Allah." Muslims wear that on their foreheads sometimes. It could also be on the right hand, too. There is a saying in Islam "Say Bismillah and eat with your right hand." Possibly connected to the the reference of the mark, name, or number being on the right hand.

Number = the number is definitely 666, most likely written in Greek, which John the Revelator confirms in Revelation.

Without any one or combination of these marks, they just can't buy or sell.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,171
1,159
113
#7
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
The beast in Revelation 13:1 is a system. It has existed in various forms and will exist again. The Godless systems which it represents come from the Mediterranean region, so it rises from the sea and also a multitude of peoples, as you mentioned. This final system may or may not be Roman in origin, but it will be established in the area around the Mediterranean. I don't believe the eighth head, the man of sin, will necessarily be Roman. I know a lot people think because of certain prophecies in Daniel that he has to be but I don't fall in line with the usual interpretation. He could be but I don't think he necessarily has to be. Someone of Arab or Muslim origin makes more sense to me. He will eventually acquire enough power to rule the final beast system.

The second beast will originate from a specific location; that's why he comes from the "earth." In my opinion he will be the false prophet. Some feel that because he has the "two horns of a lamb" he must be an apostate Christian; but I don't believe that. The two horns of a lamb can be interpreted another way. For example, he's someone who appears innocent and gentle but inwardly is a ravening wolf. He doesn't necessarily have to be Christian; he just has to be someone who can gain peoples' trust.

I do believe Babylon, the mother of harlots, is Roman Catholicism. She sits atop the final beast system and for a while controls it; the man of sin will cooperate with her for a time, but after he has consolidated power, he and his ten horns will destroy her unceremoniously. This is another reason I tend not to think the false prophet is a pope. The false prophet will be with the man of sin until they're both thrown alive into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20).

666 doesn't concern me. There will come a time when it will be valuable information, but for now it's pointless to worry about it.
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
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#8
Someone of Arab or Muslim origin makes more sense to me.
Thank you for your contribution. Are there any bible verses to support this? I have heard some people say the OT mentions "an Assyrian"
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,171
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#9
I have heard some people say the OT mentions "an Assyrian"
Yes, that's one.

Revelation 20:4 says: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who had been beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and they did not receive the mark on their forehead or on their hand."

Islam is the only powerful religious group that I know of at this time that makes a regular practice of beheading its enemies. Islam hates Jews and Christians. They may appear tolerant but that's part of their strategy. Once they've acquired power I guarantee Christian and Jewish heads will roll.

That's my view now. Changing circumstances may cause me to abandon that view in favor of another. That's the thing about prophecy, a theory can sound very good now but give it 20 years, it could all change.
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
139
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#11
Yes, that's one.

Revelation 20:4 says: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who had been beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and they did not receive the mark on their forehead or on their hand."

Islam is the only powerful religious group that I know of at this time that makes a regular practice of beheading its enemies. Islam hates Jews and Christians. They may appear tolerant but that's part of their strategy. Once they've acquired power I guarantee Christian and Jewish heads will roll.

That's my view now. Changing circumstances may cause me to abandon that view in favor of another. That's the thing about prophecy, a theory can sound very good now but give it 20 years, it could all change.
I love your honesty and yes that is how views often go, they are a product of the times. But this one about Islam has been true since Islam's founding.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,909
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#12
Question: How is the first beast Mahdi "wounded"?
I believe the "mortal head wound" quoted in Revelation 13:3 is a prophetic reference to a future event. I think it means exactly what it says, in my humble opinion.

Rev. 13:2-4
2...the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast is healed by the dragon. The dragon is just another name for the devil, the old serpent, Satan, etc according to Revelation 12 and 20.

From my perspective the beast kingdom, if you will, is just supposed to be a Satanic forgery of the millenial kingdom, complete with a god, a messiah figure, miracles, raising people from the dead, etc. Satan knows that people are expected a real millenial kingdom with God there and Jesus, complete with miracles. So the beast kingdom is just meant to be a distraction from the millenial kingdom, but the millenial kingdom comes later when Jesus returns.
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
139
55
28
#14
I believe the "mortal head wound" quoted in Revelation 13:3 is a prophetic reference to a future event. I think it means exactly what it says, in my humble opinion.

Rev. 13:2-4
2...the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast is healed by the dragon. The dragon is just another name for the devil, the old serpent, Satan, etc according to Revelation 12 and 20.

From my perspective the beast kingdom, if you will, is just supposed to be a Satanic forgery of the millenial kingdom, complete with a god, a messiah figure, miracles, raising people from the dead, etc. Satan knows that people are expected a real millenial kingdom with God there and Jesus, complete with miracles. So the beast kingdom is just meant to be a distraction from the millenial kingdom, but the millenial kingdom comes later when Jesus returns.
Thank you. One more question: How can a muslim man sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself to be god? That is not allowed in islam as two others have pointed out, it would be considered 'shirk' which is the ultimate sin in islam.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,171
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#15
Thank you. One more question: How can a muslim man sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself to be god? That is not allowed in islam as two others have pointed out, it would be considered 'shirk' which is the ultimate sin in islam.
I doubt the man of sin will care about what anyone thinks. He may have an Islamic background, but someone who proclaims himself God and demands worship isn't going to worry about what's "allowed" and what isn't.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
2,887
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London
#16
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
From the sea certainly does mean the nations, Antichrist is a Gentile. From the earth means from Israel, so the false prophet is a Jew.

I believe very soon a great prophet is to arise in Israel doing great signs and miracles, of what kind remains to be seen, but he will become internationally recognised [as I see it] and cause the whole world to believe that the Jewish messiah is about to appear.

The whole world will turn against the church.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,909
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#17
Thank you. One more question: How can a muslim man sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself to be god? That is not allowed in islam as two others have pointed out, it would be considered 'shirk' which is the ultimate sin in islam.
It's also a sin to claim to be God in Christianity and Judaism, unless of course, that person is God incarnate, which Jesus Christ was. They called Jesus a sinner for claiming to be God. Jesus validated His deity with miracles and prophetic fulfillment. If the Mahdi uses signs, miracles, and wonders and then claims to be God incarnate I guess many people in Islam will believe that. Just my humble opinion.

According to 2 Thessalonians 2, the anti-Christ claims to be God and does miracles just like Jesus did. No one will really know the difference unless they have insider knowledge, such as from the Bible, like we do here.

2 These. 2:4,9,10 KJV
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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#18
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.
Can't be, for the two beasts in Revelation is still prophetic. Hasn't happened yet.

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
According to scholars, Greek letters were assigned a number. Once the "one world ruler" comes to power, his name added up from Greek letters will be 666.
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
253
131
43
near Montreal, quebec
#19
This will lead you FAR astray from the Truth of their identity!

Could be you are right, would you then please let us know what you think of the subject, please share with us. I do not mean this as sarcasm I am really interested in what you know. it is a time to share these things between us as I believe the end is approaching.

Thank you for sharing and may our heavenly father Bless you,

JF
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,617
771
113
#20
From the sea certainly does mean the nations, Antichrist is a Gentile. From the earth means from Israel, so the false prophet is a Jew.

I believe very soon a great prophet is to arise in Israel doing great signs and miracles, of what kind remains to be seen, but he will become internationally recognised [as I see it] and cause the whole world to believe that the Jewish messiah is about to appear.

The whole world will turn against the church.
Please share what makes you believe the earth is a reference to Israel. Thank you.