Who Runs the Church?

[Bob1953]

There seems to be a great controversy as to whether or not women should be pastors or priests. One thing that seems to bother some men is the idea of having a woman in a place of authority over men.
However, in my church, which is a large Protestant denomination, the local church seems to have no person put in a place of authority. The church is run by a church council which is elected by the church members. The pastor automatically is a member of that council.
Ideally, I think a church should be run by Jesus, of course. Jesus would give each of us instructions, and we would carry out those instructions.
What do you think?

 

[Jezreel]

I understand what you are saying. Just because a person is a member of a church does not make them a member of the body of Christ. Jesus is the one that adds to the church daily and baptizes his members into his body. Besides that also, Jesus Christ is the one who anoints and ordains those he has chosen to be servants. Jesus said let the greatest among you be the servant. Just like Jesus washed the feet of his disiples, his servants inspire the member of the body to point them to Jesus, giving Jesus the glory. Jesus never ordained a clergy with paychecks, staff and councils etc and boards. This is all man made corruption.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I really don't see I need for the debate but I will show scriptures so if there is a debate then the proper name for the thread should be. Is the Bible the true inspired Word of God, and this should also bring all to the conclusion that this means all the Bible not just what we want to choose , If God inspired paul to tell the early church Not to let woman have authority in the Church, then a Bible believing Church should not let a woman have authority over the Church, If we say that paul was wrong then what other part do we cut out or how can we judge righteousness and say that Homosexual shouldn't pastor or hold on even child abusers, if we can cut out the part or even say it doesn't apply to the church today, about women not being pastors shouldn't we cut out where it would be wrong for satanic worshipper to be pastors also< where do we draw the line in what parts of the Bible is right and what parts are wrong . a little leaven leavens the whole lot ,, It all has to be true or I am throwing mine out. if we say that a counsel is the authority and not the pastor does the counsel determine what the flock is feed every sunday or does the pastor have to right to feed His flock what God has told him to or does he have to get the message for the week from The COUNSEL? if The pastors have the right to choose the message then they have autority Come on , please!!! here is the True Word of God, you do what you want to with it.


Eph 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

2ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2ti 3:17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Mt 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


1co 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


1ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


so the conclusion we must come to is if any of these verses That I have posted here are not the Inspired Word of God Then how can we preach any verse as the truth. if 1Tim 2:12 is not true and paul was wrong how can we preach that he was right when He said


Ro 8:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.



and while we are at it let us cut this one out also I think most of us has already anyhow


Ro 10:3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[Bob1953]

It would seem to me that it is important to keep the morale of the church high, and one ingredient in doing that is making sure that everyone in the church is treated fairly.

 

[Thaddaeus]

It would seem to me that it is important to keep the morale of the church high, and one ingredient in doing that is making sure that everyone in the church is treated fairly.

so I guess we could have to cut this one out also


Heb 11:6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Mobius]

If we say that paul was wrong then what other part do we cut out or how can we judge righteousness

It's real easy. Scripture can't conflict with scripture. If it appears to, the "johnny come lately" must not really be scripture.

That's as far as I read. Your perpetual supposition that you've got the direct pipeline to G-d is very off-putting. Even if you're right, there's a right and wrong way to be right, and being Sabbath, I'm just in too good a mood for such arrogance atm.

Shabbat Shalom and Hag Sameach, y'all!

 

[Thaddaeus]

It's real easy. Scripture can't conflict with scripture. If it appears to, the "johnny come lately" must not really be scripture.

That's as far as I read. Your perpetual supposition that you've got the direct pipeline to G-d is very off-putting. Even if you're right, there's a right and wrong way to be right, and being Sabbath, I'm just in too good a mood for such arrogance atm.

Shabbat Shalom and Hag Sameach, y'all!
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Let me rephrase what you should say scriptures never contradicts itself, there is no contradiction in the world of God only the way people sees them is contradictive

you mean you don't have a pipe line to God You can't pray to Him and He hears your prayer , well then there you go that's your problem. Ye must believe that He hears our prayer how else can we have faith in him answering them if we don't know that He even hears them

 

[Bob1953]

Keith, instead of taking the whole Bible and asking what we would take out of it, why not start with nothing and ask what we would add to it? I would add the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because I know that Jesus was never wrong.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Keith, instead of taking the whole Bible and asking what we would take out of it, why not start with nothing and ask what we would add to it? I would add the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because I know that Jesus was never wrong.

sorry but we have been warn not to add to or take away, and Bob I ask you why should we want to change any of it, I have never ask what we should take out of it but rather what else you all would take away from it. if we can establish that one part is wrong as you all say then the whole lump is leaven!! or aleast that is what the bible says but that's right you guys probably don't believe that I little leaven will leaven to whole lump either I mean after all it in in the Book that is full of lies according to you guys that is

 

[Thaddaeus]

It would seem to me that it is important to keep the morale of the church high, and one ingredient in doing that is making sure that everyone in the church is treated fairly.

yeah let's go against the Word of God , as long as we lift everyone but God, we will be alright in the end, but wait doesn't it say first to Love God then Love others, oh yeah that's right that part of the Bible is wrong also. man I keep forgeting that the scribes of todays church knows more about right and wrong than God Himself according to them that is. bob would you please send me a copy of the Bible according to Bob so that I will be approved . oh never mind I will just stick to the one God gave us . I am really sorry guys but it just grieves my spirit to know that people who call themselves Christian can openly say that they do not believe the Bible.

 

[Arel]

I do believe the Scriptures. I just don't believe you.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I do believe the Scriptures. I just don't believe you.

I am giving you scriptures:

Eph 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

2ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2ti 3:17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Mt 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


1co 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


1ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


so the conclusion we must come to is if any of these verses That I have posted here are not the Inspired Word of God Then how can we preach any verse as the truth. if 1Tim 2:12 is not true and paul was wrong how can we preach that he was right when He said


Ro 8:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

.

if you disagree with any of these scriptures then you don't believe the whole Bible you have picked the part of the Bible that you want to believe, one starts a false doctrine, by saying ok I know John 3:16 says that God so loved the world, But that's not what God meant . then they twist what God says, if the inspired Word of God said not let woman teach or have authority over man then it meant not to let women teach or have authority over man, then one says well I know that is says not to let women teach but that is not what it means, or even well paul was wrong when he said this, then we have just stated that part of the Bible is wrong, if this part is wrong then what parts are right and what others parts or wrong.

 

[Arel]

You misunderstand me. I believe Scripture. I do not believe all of the bible is Scripture.

 

[Bob1953]

Keith,
You bring up an interesting point about adding and taking away from the Bible. I believe you are referring to Revelation 22:18-19. I think probably John is speaking only of the book of Revelation, and not the whole Bible, though the matter is worth some serious reflection, now that you mention it.
Let me remind you what I said before, that I believe every word in the four Gospels is correct, because here is where you find the teachings of Jesus himself.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I like the idea of a group of people running the church.

 

[Jezreel]

Keith, shall we ask God to bring fire down out of heavenf for these heretics!!?? (just kidding)

 

[Thaddaeus]

Keith,
You bring up an interesting point about adding and taking away from the Bible. I believe you are referring to Revelation 22:18-19. I think probably John is speaking only of the book of Revelation, and not the whole Bible, though the matter is worth some serious reflection, now that you mention it.
Let me remind you what I said before, that I believe every word in the four Gospels is correct, because here is where you find the teachings of Jesus himself.

Ok let's just pretend that you are right that adding to and taking away is for revelation only, then we could say that it would be ok to do this since John3:16 is not in revelation.

Joh 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *and earn their own way in, should not perish, but have everlasting life.


*and earn their own way, is added to the scriptures so that all who think they can work their way in, will be most asssuredly that they will be in , it is ok to do this for John is not in revelation and according to most bible scholars, God does not forbid adding or taking away from His word, unless it is in revelation so if any body else would like to have this Burger King religion where we can have it our own way go ahead, help for us cut out or add to anything in The Inspired Word Of God that you don't like or add those things you would like to have . it's ok, for according to most Bible scholars. except a few that still believe that God is on the throne and His whole Word is still Holy , Please Father fogive me for What i just did to your Holy Word . But as Paul I would do anything even become accursed myself, If I could get someone else to respect your Holy Word as God breathed and God given even the parts that are not red letters, so I will undo what I did.


Joh 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Bob1953]

Keith,
I neither add nor take away from Scripture, I don&#8217;t think. I simply wonder if Paul didn&#8217;t sometimes mis-speak. Paul says women can&#8217;t speak in church, and I have to wonder if that&#8217;s the Lord&#8217;s will or simply Paul&#8217;s will.
Certainly the teachings of Jesus, as found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are infallible.
Paul seems to me to contradict Jesus in Galatians 5:14 (RSV). Read what he says:

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now read what Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40:

[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

 

[Thaddaeus]

You misunderstand me. I believe Scripture. I do not believe all of the bible is Scripture.

then tell me please have you written your book to let us know what parts are true and what parts we can cut out, if so send me one so I can be justified before God , nay wait a minute I wll just stick the The whole truth that good ole King James translation of the True Word of God

 

[Thaddaeus]

Keith,
I neither add nor take away from Scripture, I don’t think. I simply wonder if Paul didn’t sometimes mis-speak. Paul says women can’t speak in church, and I have to wonder if that’s the Lord’s will or simply Paul’s will.
Certainly the teachings of Jesus, as found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are infallible.
Paul seems to me to contradict Jesus in Galatians 5:14 (RSV). Read what he says:

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now read what Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40:

[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

well if you believe the bible then it was God telling paul to write it

2ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
it says here all words , not just the ones we want to believe but ALL words. Let me point out one thing about Matt 22:36-40 note one it says to love God, this is the fisrt commandment. do you think that the only way to show your love to someone is to not offend them, I would want my wife to be in the will of God. I would want all my children to be in the will of God, I would want all my church to be in the will of God, I would want all my brothers and sisters in Christ to be in the will of God I would even want myself to be in the will of God, so now I know the best thing for them to do is to Love God, Jesus said If you love me keep my commandments, So I teach my household that the Word of God is true . some of it I may not agree But that does not change the fact that it is Bible. if God told my Son to go to iran and preach the Gospel I would not want Him to I would even offer Him a postition in my church where He could serve God and me keep him safe. But The Spirit part of me would have to say be obedient to God even though it might mean it would be the last time I got to see my son down here. even though you slay me, Lord I will trust in you. If my wife wanted to pastor a church, I would love God and her enough to tell her and show her from scripture where God has said no she shouldn't pastor a Church the Bishop must be the husband of one wife. a woman is not to have authority over man. and to get me to believe that this is not God breathed scripture then Jesus would have to appear in the light as He did for paul to tell Paul was a little mixed up about the women pastors. no body every gets this point but if paul was wrong in these scriptures then he must have been wrong in other areas and this is or should be the attsck from non-believers that the word of God is full of misstakes not from the Body of Christ itself , so call me all kinds of names bully meannie whatever you want when Blood Bougt Christians says that we can't believe all the Bible then you are going to see collar get roughed up alittle.

I do want to chat with all that have debated with me on different subjects in here I believe In eternal life Promised from God, if it is of God then you or I have no powers or means to undo it , so when I discuss and show you that scripture should mean what it says and even if we reach an impass, I am in no wise judging you to hell, I believe that alot of this stuff is just doctrinal issues on how we should walk that effects our walkand/or our fellowship with God But not our relationship, He is still God of the Bible and My Father in Heaven and if you believe that Jesus's work on the Cross was good enoght for your salvation and you have called upon the Name of the Lord and made him Lord, then He is your Father also. if we are seekiing the KING of kings and the Lord of lords. then let us put Him as King over all kings and peoples and Lord over all our Life