Who Were The Jusaizers? Are You One? Do You Know Anybody That Is?

[danschance]

What are the guidelines? Does it vary from person to person? What is the Law of Christ?

The law of Christ is not the Mosaic laws the Jews were under.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Gal 5:18

The Law of Christ(1 Cor 9:21, Gal 6:2) is based on Loving God and Loving your neighbor (Mark 12:28-31). It is a moral law only.

Jesus told the scribe:
Love God with all your heart, all your strength all your understanding and to love your neighbor as yourself. This far exceeds the Mosaic law as in the old testament it was simply Love God and your neighbor. The law of Christ even includes the motives in our heart which the old testament never mentioned. Even more, we are to be led by the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:18)

 

[GregoryC]

Roman 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God these are the sons of God.

 

[danschance]

Roman 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God these are the sons of God.

Exactly. Jesus said:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. John 10:27

This implies if you do not hear the voice of Jesus then you are NOT one of His sheep. Fortunately for me, I do hear His voice and it is amazing.

 

[Karraster]

The law of Christ is not the Mosaic laws the Jews were under.


The Law of Christ(1 Cor 9:21, Gal 6:2) is based on Loving God and Loving your neighbor (Mark 12:28-31). It is a moral law only.

Jesus told the scribe:
Love God with all your heart, all your strength all your understanding and to love your neighbor as yourself. This far exceeds the Mosaic law as in the old testament it was simply Love God and your neighbor. The law of Christ even includes the motives in our heart which the old testament never mentioned. Even more, we are to be led by the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:18)

I agree, Messiah spoke of heart and mind being involved in keeping God's law, and does exceed the Commandments God spoke to all the children of Israel. He also said do not do as the Pharisees say to do, for they add all kinds of man made law, even placing themselves above God.

 

[danschance]

I agree, Messiah spoke of heart and mind being involved in keeping God's law, and does exceed the Commandments God spoke to all the children of Israel. He also said do not do as the Pharisees say to do, for they add all kinds of man made law, even placing themselves above God.

Is not a Christian obeying Jewish law involved with a man made religion? Is he not blending the old and new covenant according to his own whims?

 

[Karraster]

Is not a Christian obeying Jewish law involved with a man made religion? Is he not blending the old and new covenant according to his own whims?

God's Law verses Pharisees law. Torah verses Takanote. Messiah didn't say anything about Takanote, Talmud, Mishna, etc..He did quote Torah. Messiah can't put it any plainer, and I certainly can't.

 

[danschance]

God's Law verses Pharisees law. Torah verses Takanote. Messiah didn't say anything about Takanote, Talmud, Mishna, etc..He did quote Torah. Messiah can't put it any plainer, and I certainly can't.

Neither did I. I meant adding to Christian the former things of Judaism. Such as adding circumcision to Christianity or adding the Sabbath or kosher food, etc to Christianity.

 

[Karraster]

Neither did I. I meant adding to Christian the former things of Judaism. Such as adding circumcision to Christianity or adding the Sabbath or kosher food, etc to Christianity.

As with anything made by man, it changes with generations, thus, the original meaning of Judaizer has changed as well. That was the point of this thread. Sabbath keepers are not Judaizers. I stand by that, and I have said nothing about circumcision.

What I have said is,
God said Sabbath 7th day rest is to be remembered forever, and will be remembered in the new earth. Messiah taught how to keep Sabbath, never did He say forget it. Yet, you call me a Judaizer. If that is the case, then you call Jesus a Judaizer as well.

I don't care which day you rest, it's not my business. I don't call anyone names for going to church on Sunday.

Furthermore, I am done commenting on this thread. If you won't research the origin of the word you use, "Judaizer" and what it means, I have nothing more to add.

 

[JGIG]

What are the guidelines? Does it vary from person to person? What is the Law of Christ?

The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended

by JGIG


-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

The law of Christ is not the Mosaic laws the Jews were under.


The Law of Christ(1 Cor 9:21, Gal 6:2) is based on Loving God and Loving your neighbor (Mark 12:28-31). It is a moral law only.

Jesus told the scribe:
Love God with all your heart, all your strength all your understanding and to love your neighbor as yourself. This far exceeds the Mosaic law as in the old testament it was simply Love God and your neighbor. The law of Christ even includes the motives in our heart which the old testament never mentioned. Even more, we are to be led by the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:18)

The really cool thing about the 'law' of Christ is that the 'law of love' is not a law that we obey, but Fruit that we bear:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
​

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
​

And this is key:

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ​

So the Scriptures say that if we walk by the Spirit, we will not gratify the desires of the flesh, and that if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law.

In Romans chapters 5 and 7 we are told that the Law actually stirs up sin, so why would it make sense to try to live by that which stirs up sin?

There's a reason that God tells us we have died to the Law - it stirs up sin, results in dead works, and is the ministry of death (Rom. 5, 7, Heb. 6, 2 Cor. 3).

A better covenant built on better promises with a Perfect High Priesthood has been made available in Christ; to go back to the Old Covenantal system is spiritual adultery. (!)

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Is not a Christian obeying Jewish law involved with a man made religion? Is he not blending the old and new covenant according to his own whims?

That's a great point; the Old and the New Covenants were never meant to be mixed.

Think wineskins; think old and new fabric.

-JGIG

 

[danschance]

As with anything made by man, it changes with generations, thus, the original meaning of Judaizer has changed as well. That was the point of this thread. Sabbath keepers are not Judaizers. I stand by that, and I have said nothing about circumcision.

What I have said is,
God said Sabbath 7th day rest is to be remembered forever, and will be remembered in the new earth. Messiah taught how to keep Sabbath, never did He say forget it. Yet, you call me a Judaizer. If that is the case, then you call Jesus a Judaizer as well.

I don't care which day you rest, it's not my business. I don't call anyone names for going to church on Sunday.

Furthermore, I am done commenting on this thread. If you won't research the origin of the word you use, "Judaizer" and what it means, I have nothing more to add.

God said circumcision is forever too:

10 “Here is my covenant that you and your children after you must keep. Every male among you must be circumcised. 11 You must be circumcised. That will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 It must be done for all time to come. Gen 17

Yet Paul said circumcision:

Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. Gal 5:2

As Hebrews says, when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law. Circumcision is still forever but it has changed to being of a circumcised heart, i.e. born again.

 

[Hoffco]

Since God says the nation of Israel will always be,; and the Jews have kept the SAT. SAB. and CIRCUM. for the last 2,000 yrs; I think I could accept, that S>S> and C> are forever for the NATION of the Jews..! BUT, not for us Christians, except those who want to keep them for their own personal reasons, this would be lawful under the New Cov. OK? Grampa and danschance need to BEWARE: HYPER, EXTREME, GRACE is not GOD'S GRACE. You are unbalanced! God's grace makes us slaves of God., It makes us doers of good works, and grace makes us children, sons of God. You are in danger of anti nominism. And, I don't think Jesus literally means that we actually hear His physical voice. God's moral laws are for all ages. The fruit of the indwelling Spirit is for all ages. The FRUIT hangs on the TREE of the moral law.! GOOD word picture, OK? Love to all. Hoffco

 

[danschance]

Since God says the nation of Israel will always be,; and the Jews have kept the SAT. SAB. and CIRCUM. for the last 2,000 yrs; I think I could accept, that S>S> and C> are forever for the NATION of the Jews..! BUT, not for us Christians, except those who want to keep them for their own personal reasons, this would be lawful under the New Cov. OK? Grampa and danschance need to BEWARE: HYPER, EXTREME, GRACE is not GOD'S GRACE. You are unbalanced! God's grace makes us slaves of God., It makes us doers of good works, and grace makes us children, sons of God. You are in danger of anti nominism. And, I don't think Jesus literally means that we actually hear His physical voice. God's moral laws are for all ages. The fruit of the indwelling Spirit is for all ages. The FRUIT hangs on the TREE of the moral law.! GOOD word picture, OK? Love to all. Hoffco

I never mentioned any form of grace.
I showed Paul stated not to be circumcised.
I think you are twisting things to fit your own personal beliefs.

 

[just-me]

That's a great point; the Old and the New Covenants were never meant to be mixed.

Think wineskins; think old and new fabric.

-JGIG

The wine is the Word of God. The containers are the agreement between God and man defined by the Word of God. The old agreement was broken by humans, not God. It is possible to put old wine into new skins, but it doesn't work to put new wine into old skins. What the cloths and skins contain is the important stuff. Whether new or old the contents is what matters. The contents of the skin/covenant are the Word of God still good to consume. The containers are not the same, but the contents are. Being under or over the law and the prophets doesn't change them. The change is in us, not God, and you're right the wine skins/bottles are not to be mixed. I read once that "you cannot put an old wine skin into a new wine skin." Who in the the world would want to do that? My question was, "where did the wine go? LOL

 

[just-us-2]

Concerning the wine...

Leviticus 26:9-12 (KJV)
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful , and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you. 10 And ye shall eat old store , and bring forth the old because of the new. 11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

 

[Grandpa]

Since God says the nation of Israel will always be,; and the Jews have kept the SAT. SAB. and CIRCUM. for the last 2,000 yrs; I think I could accept, that S>S> and C> are forever for the NATION of the Jews..! BUT, not for us Christians, except those who want to keep them for their own personal reasons, this would be lawful under the New Cov. OK? Grampa and danschance need to BEWARE: HYPER, EXTREME, GRACE is not GOD'S GRACE. You are unbalanced! God's grace makes us slaves of God., It makes us doers of good works, and grace makes us children, sons of God. You are in danger of anti nominism. And, I don't think Jesus literally means that we actually hear His physical voice. God's moral laws are for all ages. The fruit of the indwelling Spirit is for all ages. The FRUIT hangs on the TREE of the moral law.! GOOD word picture, OK? Love to all. Hoffco

You are mixed up.

The moral law leads us to the Cross.

You must come to the Cross or you can't bear any fruit.

If you are bearing fruit there is no need to turn away from the One who Grows this Fruit and go back to the law that points you to the Cross. If you are bearing fruit the law has already done its job in bringing you to Christ.

Galatians 3:22-27
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

P.S. I think Gods Grace is pretty Extreme

 

[Elin]

Concerning the wine...

Leviticus 26:9-12 (KJV)
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful , and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store , and bring forth the old because of the new. 11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

That would be in the Sinaitic covenant blessings, right?

Its meaning: "You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new."

 

[just-us-2]

That would be in the Sinaitic covenant blessings, right?

Its meaning: "You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new."

That is a good explanation of the physical - would you be so kind as to explain for us the spiritual application to that? Or is your forte simply physical explanations without comparing with the spiritual?
1 Corinthians 2:13 (NAS) which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

2 peter 1:20-21 (NAS)20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

1 John 2:7 (NAS) Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning ; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.