Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

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Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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#21
I've recently learned quite a bit about Dominionism, but it is a bit too involved to go into on a forum.What is this "KFC" you mentioned?
LOL @ myself. Kentucky Fried Chicken??? Hahahah!Actually it should have read KCP.....maybe it was an auto correct, I don't know. IHOP was also known as the Kansas City Prophets (KCP) :)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
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#22
I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?



I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


Thanks! :)
SaveSave
Comes from the following scripture found in Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith <----does this indicate source?
b. Jesus finishes the good work of faith he began <----Does this indicate completion of "a"
c. God deals to all believers a measure of faith <----Does this indicate source?
d. Faith is listed as a spiritual gift of God in 1st Corinthian 13 <----Does this indicate source?

NOT ALL MEN HAVE FAITH according to 2nd Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

From FAITH to FAITH it is written the just shall live by faith.



You tell me!!!!!!!!
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#23
LOL @ myself. Kentucky Fried Chicken??? Hahahah!Actually it should have read KCP.....maybe it was an auto correct, I don't know. IHOP was also known as the Kansas City Prophets (KCP) :)
Yes, our church got involved with some of the KCPs for about three years, a few decades ago. We had to cut them loose.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
7,474
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#24
the Faith that we have can only come from One, The One Who Loves us,
and gave up 'His earthly being' for us all, in and for pure Love...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
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#25
Gal 2:16 (NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,261
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#26
It takes faith to enter through the narrow gate, Jesus never said I will give you the faith to enter through the narrow gate?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#27
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV

Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,803
183
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#28
Hi DC, What version are you using. I use the NASB and that's not what it says.


NASB
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.


It's faith we've been given by Him. We have believed in Christ Jesus so we are justified by faith IN Christ. This passage is contrasting works of the law with faith. It's by faith in Christ. Our faith that He's given to us.
 
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OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,855
126
63
#29
I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?



I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


Thanks! :)
SaveSave
When Peter was walking on the water toward Jesus, and he took his eyes off of Him to look at the wind and waves, and started to sink. Jesus raised him back up and said "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" It is our faith.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,803
183
63
#30
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV

Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us

Amen, thanks Marc. :)
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,855
126
63
#31
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV

Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,803
183
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#32
The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
Hi OneFaith,


What do we have that we've not been given by God?


Our life, our breath, our bodies, our homes, our children, our jobs, vehicles, food.......name anything you have that you didn't receive by God's hand, His favor, His Sovereignty. All Glory goes to God our Lord and Savior.


He opened our hearts and our minds, our eyes, our spirits so that we could respond to the gospel by grace through faith. It's all God's work in us. He reveals Himself to us, He reveals the truth to us and so because of the work He's done within us we either respond in faith or reject the truth.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
172
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#33
I just looked at four commentaries: Adam Clarke, Barnes Notes, Jamieson Faucet & Brown, and Charles Ellicott.
All four treat the genitive case Jesus' faith as if it were accusative Faith in Jesus. Angela, please tell us whether the genative case really works that way. I'm sure there are others on the forum qualified to answer; but I don't know who they are & I'm confident that you will answer correctly.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
113
#34
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV

Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
Exactly the point of a-d on my post and the fact that ALL men do not have faith also speaks volumes.......if faith was straight from us and Christ was not the source then ALL men would have it....a-d proves the source
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
172
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#35
The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
In Greek, the antecedent of pronoun is the most proximate (closest) preceding noun. faith is the gift.

You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you! Jn 15:16.

Grace is an attribute of God's character, not a gift otherwise we would all be gracious.
 
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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
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#36
No matter the arguments for or against...the source of ALL things spiritual is GOD........
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,855
126
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#37


Hi OneFaith,


What do we have that we've not been given by God?


Our life, our breath, our bodies, our homes, our children, our jobs, vehicles, food.......name anything you have that you didn't receive by God's hand, His favor, His Sovereignty. All Glory goes to God our Lord and Savior.


He opened our hearts and our minds, our eyes, our spirits so that we could respond to the gospel by grace through faith. It's all God's work in us. He reveals Himself to us, He reveals the truth to us and so because of the work He's done within us we either respond in faith or reject the truth.
Oh indeed, and I'm not trying to argue, just wanted to point it out. Satan is also from God, and God allows our temptations and persecutions. God sends disease to punish sin. Just because everything is from God does not mean we don't have choices.

What came to my mind was where it says some abandon The Faith to follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. In other words, they branched off of the church Christ created and made a new church of lies mixed with truth. They still had faith in God, but they no longer had grace. Because they left The Faith- which is more than belief in God's existence, it is belief and practice in His doctrine alone (the New Testament, not man made writings).
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
76
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#38
Paul is distinguishing between grace and works, not faith:

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

(Rom 4:4 KJV) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
113
#39
In Greek, the antecedent of pronoun is the most proximate (closest) preceding noun. faith is the gift.

You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you! Jn 15:16.

Grace is an attribute of God's character, not a gift otherwise we would all be gracious.
Exactly......I have stated this more than once in this manner......

In the grace you are (literally) having been saved by faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast.

Grace is the positioning
Salvation is the means as to why one has been placed into grace
The means of our salvation is faith
The faith is not of us
The source of the faith is God as a gift
The faith that saves is not of works which negates our right to boast.

a-d on the list proves this

a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith <----does this indicate source?
b. Jesus finishes the good work of faith he began <----Does this indicate completion of "a"
c. God deals to all believers a measure of faith <----Does this indicate source?
d. Faith is listed as a spiritual gift of God in 1st Corinthian 13 <----Does this indicate source?

and not to change the direction of this thread, but this is one of the reasons why I believe in eternal security.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#40
Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.