Why does God oppose Judaizing?

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Jan 25, 2015
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all right, so let's use deductive reasoning - if Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation, then it would be a choice for one to keep the Sabbath, as in twilight fri-sat, or not.

or one could choose to keep the Lord's day. ( sunday, the day Christ rose , as per Scripture, not per the romans).

yes or no?.
Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation and we all know that is one of the flaws of the SDAC.

The Sabbath was an appointed time by God at the foundation of the earth and we know it to be from twilight Friday to Saturday. It is your choice to keep God’s appointed times.

The other thing we have to consider is that God said He hates our feast days. If it was not appointed by God He hates it but that is for us all to figure out by trusting the Spirit of God to guide us.

We should not judge one another in the keeping of the Sabbath because the Bible teach us the way we judge, we will be judged.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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I have been reading the Hebrew nation argument and we all know that the descendants of Abraham were called the Hebrews (Paul referred to himself as Hebrew) but the Hebrew nation is more of a concept to be understood from the meaning of the word. The action of the word Hebrew is “to cross over”, so we cross over from being in the worldly kingdom to God’s Kingdom and we all become Hebrews. Abram was a Galdian before he was a Hebrew, but his actions made him a Hebrew.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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In the city of Ur gentiles were living. God told one gentile, Abraham, that from him would be a race of people called Hebrews and he would be given a country belonging to Hebrews.
Your mistaken Israelite ethnic group identity with a different race. Hebrews are canaanites who separated from their former belief of multiple gods to monotheistic religion centered on Yahweh, It was about faith in one God not God creating a new race but different tribal religious belief.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Your mistaken Israelite ethnic group identity with a different race. Hebrews are canaanites who separated from their former belief of multiple gods to monotheistic religion centered on Yahweh, It was about faith in one God not God creating a new race but different tribal religious belief.
Spot on. It is an outward confession of your inward change :)
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
the entire op has a false premise

the op does not understand what a Judaizer is and has tied it to the OT

maybe we should point her to the Hebrew Roots movement :cautious:
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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I think it is explained well in the first chapter of Isaiah. The Hebrews were making sacrifices to the Lord at that time to copy the heathens who made sacrifices as part of idol worship, not for forgiveness of sin. They were to make sacrifices of animals in the spirit of Christ, for the forgiveness of sins. Leviticus 4: 35 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the lamb of the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the Lord. In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.

Each physical, fleshly thing the Hebrews were told to do was to be an expression of a spiritual meaning. When the physical act was done and the spiritual meaning was ignored, the Lord said he hated the physical act.

God gave instructions to the Hebrews because they were the ones chosen to show
God to the world, but every instruction to them was for man, all of them, to be included when they accepted the Lord. In old testament time, no one accepted God who didn’t become a Hebrew. But as in all of the instructions God gives, it was for mankind, not Jews only. I think it is still true that every instruction the Lord gives us is still for mankind, never Jews only. I think our instructions about Judaizing is not about being against Jewish customs for God is only against sin, it is against only fleshly worship.
God opposes Judaizing because it is idolatry.

God means for the focus to be on Jesus and not on his shadow.

He is the substance, or the reality, that ceremonial elements of the Mosaic Law pointed toward.

That is one reason why the Temple was destroyed in AD70. It was a barrier to faith for Jews.

Now, Jews have substituted repentance and prayers for Temple worship, but they are no substitute. No righteousness can be gained by their repentance and prayers, outside of Christ.

I imagine by the original poster's history that the intention is to convince others they need to follow the calendar and dietary aspects of the Mosaic Law. These observances, too, were shadows and types (Colossians 2:16-17).


While it wouldn't be wrong for a Messianic Jew to observe them (or anyone else that wants to observe them in a non-judgmental way), it would be wrong if the intention is to force Christians to observe them, and to proclaim their observances to be pagan. That's the typical direction these sorts of conversations go.

I was raised in a family that believed the true faith involved observing the Sabbath and festivals, and the unclean meat laws. So, I know the mentality. But, realize that their observances are, at best, haphazard and not biblically faithful. For instance, some of them live in comfortable hotel rooms during the Feast of Tabernacles instead of shelters made of native Palestinian materials. Additionally, they don't observe them in the place God chose, Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 16:16).

They can't because there's no priest or other person to tell them God's will...nor can they provide the sacrifices required on these days since there's no Levitical priesthood.

Consistency isn't in their thoughts though :)

That's one of the things that unchained me from their belief system..I saw how remarkably inconsistent they were. Their system is basically just a patchwork quilt meant to cover their spiritual nakedness. I recommend being clothed in Jesus :)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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all right, so let's use deductive reasoning - if Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation, then it would be a choice for one to keep the Sabbath, as in twilight fri-sat, or not.

or one could choose to keep the Lord's day. ( sunday, the day Christ rose , as per Scripture, not per the romans).

yes or no?.
Yes. We are given free choice in everything.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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1,898
113
the entire op has a false premise

the op does not understand what a Judaizer is and has tied it to the OT

maybe we should point her to the Hebrew Roots movement :cautious:
The OP is only interested in finding truth, not man's truth but the Lord's. If you think you have it and at the same time deny God so far as to discount all the OT tells of Him, including creation? well good luck. And if the OP is so dumb that the OP can't grasp what scripture tells us that has been captured in judaizim and you are able to do that well put your cards on the table and tell us, but include scripture to back up your smarts.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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The OP is only interested in finding truth, not man's truth but the Lord's. If you think you have it and at the same time deny God so far as to discount all the OT tells of Him, including creation? well good luck. And if the OP is so dumb that the OP can't grasp what scripture tells us that has been captured in judaizim and you are able to do that well put your cards on the table and tell us, but include scripture to back up your smarts.
John 12:46 “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”

I think when a people divorce themselves from Judaism and Hebrew history and the foundation principles in the Old Testament that transferred into the New and all this having happened generations ago, then we as Christian stand to be following a dictate of others own making. And as such, when we deny the origin of the faith we ascribe as divine, we live in darkness. And become vexed and vicious, as we're warned, when the light seeks us out.
Jesus was a Jew. Our faith is the Judeo-Christian tradition.

The first followers of Christ were converted Jews and they weren't called Christian. They were called, followers of the way.
Before the slings and arrows are gleefully loaded, I am not HRM. One does not need be affiliated with HRM to know Judaism cannot be divorced from our faith and we be in the light of the light of the world.

How the Church Divorced Itself From Its Jewish Roots
Posted on 05/21/2014 by Natan Lawrence
From A.D. 70 to A.D. 135—How the Church Became Divorced From Its Hebraic Roots

PDF- The Jewish Roots of Christianity
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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all right, so let's use deductive reasoning - if Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation, then it would be a choice for one to keep the Sabbath, as in twilight fri-sat, or not.

or one could choose to keep the Lord's day. ( sunday, the day Christ rose , as per Scripture, not per the romans).

yes or no?.
all right, so let's use deductive reasoning - if Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation, then it would be a choice for one to keep the Sabbath, as in twilight fri-sat, or not.

or one could choose to keep the Lord's day. ( sunday, the day Christ rose , as per Scripture, not per the romans).

yes or no?.
No.
God ordained the Sabbath day and in our New Testament told us that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
What right does man then have to change a day of rest Holy Spirit God ordained for humankind?
Further, if deductive reasoning is at a premium in your theology, as you say, I'd hope you'd research and find that Jesus did not resurrect on Sunday.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Sabbath keeping is not tied to salvation and we all know that is one of the flaws of the SDAC.

The Sabbath was an appointed time by God at the foundation of the earth and we know it to be from twilight Friday to Saturday. It is your choice to keep God’s appointed times.

The other thing we have to consider is that God said He hates our feast days. If it was not appointed by God He hates it but that is for us all to figure out by trusting the Spirit of God to guide us.

We should not judge one another in the keeping of the Sabbath because the Bible teach us the way we judge, we will be judged.
The only judging of this OP is whether God wants us to honor the feasts or not.

If God tells us to forever (for all generations that is forever in our kinds of time) keep the feasts days and then tells us he hates feast days, doesn't that make you question how that can be?

God also tells us to be circumcised and then don't be circumcised. God tells us to not eat animals designed to eat garbage and then God tells us nothing we put in our stomachs defiles us. Doesn't that make you wonder? Then God explains to us that if we do these material things without the spirit involvement, that is what makes them useless. We are to be spiritually circumcised and we are to keep ourselves from defilement, it is just that purely physical things do not do it.

The things we do because God blesses them are not done with a purpose of earning salvation, that is done through faith. But it is not profitable to do things in opposition to how God designed the world to work for our best interests. If we take that to the extreme of insisting on lying, cheating, and stealing it actually kills.

If the feasts are only a physical way of praise and prayer, then God hates them. If the feasts are, like the Lord's Prayer, simply praise of His salvation plan then it is profitable to honor them.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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The only judging of this OP is whether God wants us to honor the feasts or not.

If God tells us to forever (for all generations that is forever in our kinds of time) keep the feasts days and then tells us he hates feast days, doesn't that make you question how that can be?

God also tells us to be circumcised and then don't be circumcised. God tells us to not eat animals designed to eat garbage and then God tells us nothing we put in our stomachs defiles us. Doesn't that make you wonder? Then God explains to us that if we do these material things without the spirit involvement, that is what makes them useless. We are to be spiritually circumcised and we are to keep ourselves from defilement, it is just that purely physical things do not do it.

The things we do because God blesses them are not done with a purpose of earning salvation, that is done through faith. But it is not profitable to do things in opposition to how God designed the world to work for our best interests. If we take that to the extreme of insisting on lying, cheating, and stealing it actually kills.

If the feasts are only a physical way of praise and prayer, then God hates them. If the feasts are, like the Lord's Prayer, simply praise of His salvation plan then it is profitable to honor them.
An Omniscient Spirit speaks of and to forever, that Holy Spirit would know what is meant when giving his directives.
Forever is forever.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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In my view, these short presentations about religion from an academic point of view are a great addition to this thread. I think it may touch on a lot of what many here do not know.



We have to recall also that "Christianity" was not always separated from Judaism.​
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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God put an end to Levitical Judaism through the Roman army. Why emulate a religion whose adherents rejected their Messiah?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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No.
God ordained the Sabbath day and in our New Testament told us that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
What right does man then have to change a day of rest Holy Spirit God ordained for humankind?
Further, if deductive reasoning is at a premium in your theology, as you say, I'd hope you'd research and find that Jesus did not resurrect on Sunday.
I have did research. Jesus resurrected on Sat. night , after the Sabbath had passed. the women went to the tomb early on sun. morning, as in " early in the morning on the first day of the week".

the judeaizer lie that the women went to the tomb as the sun went down, is just that- a lie
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Yes. We are given free choice in everything.
yes we are.

now, please answer the question- is Sabbath keeping required for salvation through faith in Christ, or not required?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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I have did research. Jesus resurrected on Sat. night , after the Sabbath had passed. the women went to the tomb early on sun. morning, as in " early in the morning on the first day of the week".

the judeaizer lie that the women went to the tomb as the sun went down, is just that- a lie
The Sabbath starts a few minutes before sunset on Friday night and ends an hour after sunset on Saturday. And you must think you are clairvoyant to know just what hour Christ rose, all we are told is that the discovery of it was made on Sunday morning.

All this talk of lying, where does that come from? And how do you manage to tie judaizing and Sabbath together? Scripture doesn't.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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yes we are.

now, please answer the question- is Sabbath keeping required for salvation through faith in Christ, or not required?
I answered, do you want me to shout? Salvation does NOT depend on keeping the Sabbath, and this post if not about the Sabbath it is speaking of whether God asks us to honor the feasts or does God designate it as only a fleshly act to be thought of as we think of fleshly circumcision. You come from left base on this Sabbath keeping. We have a special thread for that, go there.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I answered, do you want me to shout? Salvation does NOT depend on keeping the Sabbath, and this post if not about the Sabbath it is speaking of whether God asks us to honor the feasts or does God designate it as only a fleshly act to be thought of as we think of fleshly circumcision. You come from left base on this Sabbath keeping. We have a special thread for that, go there.
Actually, this thread is about "Judaizing".
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Actually, this thread is about "Judaizing".
Yes "Judaizing"as how to the faithless Jews did dishonor to the feasts as shadows of the good thing to come. Shadow worshipers, sign and wonder seekers. Show us a miracle then we believe. . exercise faith. . .

Signs for those who rebel. Prophecy the tongue of God for those who believe God.