Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

Miri · Apr 20, 2017

There has been lots of great replies on here.

One thing i would add is that by today's standards SOS is very tame.

Another point, the bible is a real book about real people, is shows up the best
and worst of them, the culture of the day, their emotions, thoughts,
the way God dealt with them.

Its not a glossey editorial, it doesn't seek to paint a better picture of the charecters
in the bible. It's real. It shows how realible the bible is, that it is the inspired
word of God.

Most other religions have books which try to give only a positive view and dont
dare imply people, saints, phophets what ever they may call them, get things wrong.
Whereas the bible puts it all out there warts and all.

What would you prefer, the truth, or a sanitised politically correct version all nice
and shiny.

Sos is an usual book, it's one of those that every time you read it, you get
something new out of it. Best thing is to follow Solomons example and
ask for wisdom when you read it.

trofimus · Apr 20, 2017

umzza said:

Hi

1) American culture got too much sensitive to any mention about any the part of woman's body. Probably it is because of puritanism in the basics of American society. Your teens go to army and kill people but they cannot drink alcohol till 21 or something like that. So there are some weird contradictions in the American morals.
I have never met European who would have a problem with the Song of songs.
So maybe its more a cultural problem for you? I do not know.

2) Polygamy was practiced in the OT very often and God does not seem to have any problem with that. This book can apply to several of Salomon's wives or it can just be a common song about the love between man and woman generally.

3) We do not know exactly how old they were, but yes, it is traditionally accepted that he was older, also because he died early and we read just about Mary in gospels during the life of Jesus.
Because we do not know if she was 14 or 16 or 18 and if he was 30, 40 or 60, it is quite impossible to answer your question.
Again I have never met European who would have a problem with that.

beta · Apr 20, 2017

kaylagrl said:

How can you have 'love and commitment with HUNDREDS of outlandish strange women that God told Solomon not to marry ? Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord....carnally speaking, and carnally speaking he was an 'oversexed lustful pervert whose writings cause grave damage to some vulnerable inexperienced people turning them from God - as he did himself, see 1Kgs 11.

Ariel82 · Apr 20, 2017

umzza said:

I was told that the Song of Solomon was written to his first wife before he was married to all those other wives and is suppose to be a love song between two people who are newlyweds.

I guess it is meant to show that sexuality within the bonds of marriage is okay and that people shouldn't be ashamed of how God made their bodies.

The temple Solomon built was destroyed. The Temple Jesus builds will last eternally.

hornetguy · Apr 20, 2017

...Lose your love when you say the word "mine"....

good song..... not SoS, but good....

Ariel82 · Apr 20, 2017

kaylagrl said:

You know I have been married 12 years and I think I finally see how this could be viewed as "porn"

It's like realizing some popular songs really talk about sex and drugs in their lyrics.

I remember reading the verses and thinking it tells young women the importance of being virgins and saving themselves for their husband.

A message for husbands to treasure their wife.

I still think it's included in the Bible to shake up the Puritanical folks who try and teach that sex should only be done to make babies. It shows that taking pleasure in your spouse is acceptable to God.

However if you are not married, then the verses might be an issue.

Truthfully I didn't see how the verses were about sex until after marriage.

I still don't see how two does eating is sexy.

How many men could get away with using "you have two matching breast" as compliments?

Or "you have straight teeth"

I guess i never defined porn as anything that aroused me.

I believe there is different levels of attraction that many people misunderstand. Just as there is different types of love.

We have love of family, love of friends, love of God and romantic love.

We are attracted to people because we see something we admire in them. We can come to love them but it's different with Eros or romantic love.

The new testament says we should have only one husband married to one wife. It was God's plan from the beginning. He made Adam and Eve, not Adam and a harem of women.

However the world corrupts God's plans. Jesus said that divorce was allowed by Moses due to the hardness of hearts, but went against what God meant marriage to be.

Song of Solomon, I believe was written before his marriage was corrupted. In other places in the Bible, men are told to cherish the wife of their youth, their first wife.

Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah, but it is Leah who lies beside him in death. It is through Leah that Jesus was descended and she is the 1st wife.

notuptome · Apr 20, 2017

Textbook case for folks bringing their personal biases to reading scripture. If one reads SoS with a heart that know lust then one will find lust. If one reads SoS with passionate love for ones spouse then one will find passionate spousal love. If one reads SoS with love for Christ one will see how Christ loves the church. Just how does one describe immense emotional feeling toward that which they love?

Perversion of the scriptures occurs in the hearts of men not God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Ariel82 · Apr 20, 2017

Willie-T said:

I guess I disqualify. I still find most of it kind of funny. Luckily my husband just shakes his head and let's me giggle.

Why are folks being so nasty to my girl, Selenah?

She asked an honest question.

She isn't a troll and folks need to pray and ask themselves if their words are meant to build up the faith of a young women or show how much "wiser" they are?

I know I personally went through a time when I questioned the Bible.

I didn't question God or His love for me, but I questioned the church, it's members, What they taught and believed.

All I saw were a bunch of hypocrites who proclaimed we should love one another as Jesus does, but will stab you with words of condemnation as soon as answer your questions.

God has since taught me:

1. I don't have to know the answers to all my questions to learn and walk in His will.

2. God gives us all we need to know and live godly lives.

3. Many people have debated the meaning of the Bible for centuries, but it's all meaningless without the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you to LIVE and love as God commands and leads His children.

*****

So I guess my long winded point is, if the Song of Solomon makes you uncomfortable, then read something else.

Maybe after your married, you can read it with your husband.

PennEd · Apr 20, 2017

umzza said:

These are probably my biggest reasons for not trusting the Bible

1) Why is there a whole book of the Bible filled with sexually explicit narrative? I don't have a problem with the Bible talking about sex, but Song of Solomon seems to be written in a way to stir desire more than to inform/teach. It reads much like a literotica would. These is very troubling for me because Christianity very strongly condemns pornography.

2) Why is Song of Solomon, a book that is supposedly about healthy intimacy in marriage, written by a man who had a ton of wives? I get it, everyone's a sinner, but God didn't let David build a temple because he was not a man of peace. Why would God let a promiscuous man write a whole Bible book about this subject?

3) Why did Mary, a YOUNG teenager, marry a man who was probably 30 or so? And if it was just a cultural thing, why do Christians get so incredibly upset when an older man initiates a relationship with a teen? Like they send men to jail for doing that. Why does it bother Christians so much if it was how God chose to be born?

Sorry for the nature of this post. It is not a topic I enjoy. But it makes me very angry because I do not understand it and makes me seriously question God.

We have this wrong impression, likely from the enemy, that sex is wrong and dirty.

This is not how God intended it.

kaylagrl · Apr 20, 2017

beta said:

What Solomon did was between him and God. What the poetry is talking about is marriage,love and commitment.What he did in his own life doesn't change what the book is about or the truth behind it. Ive never heard anyone call Solomon a pervert, nor David for that matter. Kings had wives back then for political reasons. It was different than todays standards.As far as the accusation that Song of Songs cause grave damage and turned people from God,I think you better be careful of what you say against Gods Word. That is a very serious accusation,and complete nonsense. People have understood down though the years that Song of Songs is a metaphor of Christ and His bride,the church. So be careful of what you are saying.

resurrection33 · Apr 20, 2017

umzza said:

These are probably my biggest reasons for not trusting the Bible

1) Why is there a whole book of the Bible filled with sexually explicit narrative? I don't have a problem with the Bible talking about sex, but Song of Solomon seems to be written in a way to stir desire more than to inform/teach. It reads much like a literotica would. These is very troubling for me because Christianity very strongly condemns pornography.

2) Why is Song of Solomon, a book that is supposedly about healthy intimacy in marriage, written by a man who had a ton of wives? I get it, everyone's a sinner, but God didn't let David build a temple because he was not a man of peace. Why would God let a promiscuous man write a whole Bible book about this subject?

3) Why did Mary, a YOUNG teenager, marry a man who was probably 30 or so? And if it was just a cultural thing, why do Christians get so incredibly upset when an older man initiates a relationship with a teen? Like they send men to jail for doing that. Why does it bother Christians so much if it was how God chose to be born?

Sorry for the nature of this post. It is not a topic I enjoy. But it makes me very angry because I do not understand it and makes me seriously question God.

I suppose to make us understand a situation clearly, sometimes the Lord felt it had to be described explicitly.

maxwel · Apr 20, 2017

beta said:

Let's get some perspective.

If your past sins disqualified you from...
having repentance,
or receiving mercy,
or serving God,
or speaking with wisdom,
or being allowed to write sacred scripture...
then EVERY AUTHOR OF EVERY BOOK OF THE BIBLE WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED.

If your past sins disqualified you from...
having repentance,
or receiving mercy,
or serving God,
or speaking with wisdom...
then I'm sure we'd have to disqualify YOU as well.

Perspective is important.

kaylagrl · Apr 20, 2017

maxwel said:

Let's get some perspective.

If your past sins disqualified you from having repentance, or receiving mercy, or serving God, or speaking with wisdom, or being allowed to write sacred scripture...
then EVERY AUTHOR OF EVERY BOOK OF THE BIBLE WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED.

If your past sins disqualified you from having repentance, or receiving mercy, or serving God, or speaking with wisdom...
then I'm sure we'd have to disqualify YOU as well.

Perspective is important.

Cant rep. but spot on!

PennEd · Apr 20, 2017

Every year our Pastor does a series on sex. This is the 1st series one we saw, a couple of years ago. I really found it informative, and uplifting. I hope you do too:[video=youtube;tLvsViKC7Ks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLvsViKC7Ks[/video]

beta · Apr 20, 2017

PennEd said:

Neither did God intend Solomon to marry 'outlamndish, strange women. Israel were intended to marry 'within Israel' and Sol as King should have set the example instead of going against God to satisfy his own lust, that is what it comes down to. So why did he choose women from outside ?
Well - Israel had been taken 'in hand by God as His special people and told to behave in a better more godly way - whereas women from other lands did not have any restrictions on their wild and uninhibited manners. Seems Solomon liked their kind of behaviour better than the chastened Israeli women.
So yes - sex is wrong with those who God does not approve of , please read 1 Kgs ch 11.

beta · Apr 20, 2017

kaylagrl said:

No, what Sol did was not a privat matter between him and God...it is widely published in all the world and therefore can be discussed. If you approve of his doings you have not read 1Kgs ch 11 where we are told of Sol's disobedience and doing evil in the sight of God. How he can be likened to Christ is beyond me...and I never mentioned David.

Kavik · Apr 20, 2017

To try and answer some of your questions –

Solomon’s wives – this was a display of a man’s wealth, particularly among royalty and nobility. One could have as many wives as one could support. Operative word here is ‘support’. Thus, if a man had multiple wives, it showed others that he was wealthy enough to support them all, a sort of “hey look at me, I’m so rich I can have eight wives and still have money to spare”.

It’s just the way things were done (and still are in some parts of the world).

Age Difference in Marriage – with respect to Joseph and Mary, there’s no reason to think Joseph was all that much older than Mary. I guess it depends on your view of Joseph. I personally do not think he was an old man in his 40’s with children from a previous marriage some of whom would have surely been older than Mary herself. I personally think he was probably in late teens early 20’s; just old enough to be “established” in his trade and thus an “acceptable marriage prospect” for a younger woman.

For an older man to marry a much younger woman was not at all that uncommon right up to the early 1800’s. I’m part French Canadian and can tell you that this was a very common practice in Colonial Québec. The idea was that if the man died, particularly if he was engaged in some profession or business that had a high mortality rate, the widow would be young enough to marry again and have additional children. You see this frequently in the genealogies of French Canada. It’s not uncommon to see a woman who married three times with twenty children, several from each marriage, and go on to see that her first two husbands died rather young.

You also see this with the early Puritan English in New England.

Song of Solomon – of course people tend to attach religious symbolism and metaphor to it, but personally, I think it’s simply an erotic love poem and the symbolism used rather common for the location (comparing one’s love interest to a gazelle for instance) – poems such as that were certainly plentiful in many cultures of that area – Ones from Egypt for around the same time period make Solomon’s look pretty tame in comparison.

A different set of moral views back then. Read some of the codes of Hammurabi to get an idea of what was considered “acceptable” in that neck of the woods with respect to sexual practices. Here’s a hint; they were pretty shocking by today’s standards!

beta · Apr 20, 2017

Kavik said:

To try and answer some of your questions –

Solomon’s wives – this was a display of a man’s wealth, particularly among royalty and nobility. One could have as many wives as one could support. Operative word here is ‘support’. Thus, if a man had multiple wives, it showed others that he was wealthy enough to support them all, a sort of “hey look at me, I’m so rich I can have eight wives and still have money to spare”.

It’s just the way things were done (and still are in some parts of the world).

Age Difference in Marriage – with respect to Joseph and Mary, there’s no reason to think Joseph was all that much older than Mary. I guess it depends on your view of Joseph. I personally do not think he was an old man in his 40’s with children from a previous marriage some of whom would have surely been older than Mary herself. I personally think he was probably in late teens early 20’s; just old enough to be “established” in his trade and thus an “acceptable marriage prospect” for a younger woman.

For an older man to marry a much younger woman was not at all that uncommon right up to the early 1800’s. I’m part French Canadian and can tell you that this was a very common practice in Colonial Québec. The idea was that if the man died, particularly if he was engaged in some profession or business that had a high mortality rate, the widow would be young enough to marry again and have additional children. You see this frequently in the genealogies of French Canada. It’s not uncommon to see a woman who married three times with twenty children, several from each marriage, and go on to see that her first two husbands died rather young.

You also see this with the early Puritan English in New England.

Song of Solomon – of course people tend to attach religious symbolism and metaphor to it, but personally, I think it’s simply an erotic love poem and the symbolism used rather common for the location (comparing one’s love interest to a gazelle for instance) – poems such as that were certainly plentiful in many cultures of that area – Ones from Egypt for around the same time period make Solomon’s look pretty tame in comparison.

A different set of moral views back then. Read some of the codes of Hammurabi to get an idea of what was considered “acceptable” in that neck of the woods with respect to sexual practices. Here’s a hint; they were pretty shocking by today’s standards!

Yes, I quite understand that people in those times had their own way of doing things...before God took Israel in hand and taught them better ways. God also told them they were no longer to do things the way other people did and they were not to 'inter-marry. Solomon as King of Israel would have known that....so why did he the exact opposite ? 1Kgs ch 11, gives a very bad report of him yet people almost revere him and compare him to Christ ?

wwjd_kilden · Apr 20, 2017

beta said:

I do agree that people give him WAY too much credit, but .... They compare him to Christ? Never seen that.
I think they like him because in the end he realized that all his crazy life had no value, that in stead he had to focus on God

beta · Apr 20, 2017

wwjd_kilden said:

can you give scripture ?

Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

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