Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
212
63
#1
I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
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#2
I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
So eternal life is not eternal life.

Thats good to know.

Gods promise that we will never die is not true

Again, Good to know

Gods promise that we will never hunger or thirst is not true

Again, good to know

Gods promise he WILl raise us on the last day is not true

His promise that we are sealed with the spirit UNTIL the day of redemption is not true

Its good to know All these things and other promised are not true, It would be so sad to have faith in God to keep his promises, only to later find out that non of those things are really true, and we will end up in hell anyway.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
212
63
#3
So eternal life is not eternal life.

Thats good to know.

Gods promise that we will never die is not true

Again, Good to know

Gods promise that we will never hunger or thirst is not true

Again, good to know

Gods promise he WILl raise us on the last day is not true

His promise that we are sealed with the spirit UNTIL the day of redemption is not true

Its good to know All these things and other promised are not true, It would be so sad to have faith in God to keep his promises, only to later find out that non of those things are really true, and we will end up in hell anyway.
Hello and thanks for your answer. However, I have MANY, MANY other Verses too. Here is another example.

"These men are hidden reefs [elements of great danger to others] in your love feasts when they feast together with you without fear, looking after [only] themselves; [they are like] clouds without water, swept along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted and lifeless " Jude 12 AMP

If they died twice then it means they already had been born again.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
7,911
113
#4
Hello and thanks for your answer. However, I have MANY, MANY other Verses too. Here is another example.

"These men are hidden reefs [elements of great danger to others] in your love feasts when they feast together with you without fear, looking after [only] themselves; [they are like] clouds without water, swept along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted and lifeless " Jude 12 AMP

If they died twice then it means they already had been born again.
It does not say they died twice, It says they are doubly dead (not only spiritually, But they have fallen from the state of Grace, they heard the word of truth, that could have saved them, and they rejected it. That had it in their grasp and let it go. But nice try
Can the bible contradict itself? How can God say one thing, then go against his own promises?


Oh and PS, Peter denied Jesus 3 times, Did Jesus deny him? Or welcome him with open arms?
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
212
63
#5
It does not say they died twice, It says they are doubly dead (not only spiritually, But they have fallen from the state of Grace, they heard the word of truth, that could have saved them, and they rejected it. That had it in their grasp and let it go. But nice try
Can the bible contradict itself? How can God say one thing, then go against his own promises?


Oh and PS, Peter denied Jesus 3 times, Did Jesus deny him? Or welcome him with open arms?
Jesus did receive him with open arms, but Peter also repented. Jesus and Paul told us "let no man deceive you". I am sorry, but if there was no possibility of apostasy, which did they bother warning us?
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,397
4,793
113
#8
I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
This verse is not referencing eternal life.

We are secure in Him.
There is no Gospel otherwise.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
7,911
113
#9
Jesus did receive him with open arms, but Peter also repented. Jesus and Paul told us "let no man deceive you". I am sorry, but if there was no possibility of apostasy, which did they bother warning us?
Um You must be reading some other thing

Jesus showed peter his love by asking peter three times if he loved (agape) him, Even though peter could not say he did, He only said he had a lower form of Love (phileo) Jesus still told him to go out and feed his people.

If there was a possibility of apostasy, why did God make all these promises, he knew he may not be able to keep?

You still have not responded to my questions about the promises of God
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
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#11
This verse is not referencing eternal life.

We are secure in Him.
There is no Gospel otherwise.
Amen, No hope. And God does not save us, we must continue to save ourselves. I mean that prety much makes the cross foolishness does it not?
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
212
63
#13
If there was a possibility of apostasy, why did God make all these promises, he knew he may not be able to keep?
How can you explain this Verse then?
"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." 1 Chronicles 28:9
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,096
113
#15
someone can be like "salvation is losable?" now where is the nearest garbage can?

and then "freedom!!!"
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
7,911
113
#17
How can you explain this Verse then?
"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." 1 Chronicles 28:9
If you seek him.

But if you forsake him

If you forsake, you did not seek, if you did not seek, You never found, if you never found, You were always lost. In the end, you will be cast out forever.

Why?

He who does not believe shall not see God but the wrath of God abides in him.

 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
212
63
#18
If you seek him.

But if you forsake him

If you forsake, you did not seek, if you did not seek, You never found, if you never found, You were always lost. In the end, you will be cast out forever.

Why?

He who does not believe shall not see God but the wrath of God abides in him.
What about those who once believed in him and then stopped?
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,821
7,911
113
#19
He did but he repented in time
He did? Did he really? In his heart, did he deny Jesus, Or in fear and weak faith, did he deny KNOWING jesus because he was scared?

Now please. When are you going to respond to why God made promises he never planned to keep?

Or are you going to continue to ignore my questions?