Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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That is a spin....it does not address the question in answer. I don't say it the Bible does..."faith without works is dead".
Sorry, I am just not getting what you are asking? If I don't know what your question is I suppose what I say will not address it, eh? :D

So what was your point when you said - faith without works is dead?
 
Jun 13, 2014
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Instead of adding a rhetorical question to the text of John 10:28, I would suggest we just look at what the verse(s) say:

John 10: 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The sheep are listening to Jesus' voice and are following Him and He is giving them eternal life and they will never perish, nor will anyone take them out of His hand.
It's rhetorical only because you say it is, lol! Only thing you said was, "hey my scripture is better than yours" better known as 'toucheing' in other its a pointless sword fight using scripture to topple scripture, WHEN IN ESSENCE scripture CONFIRMS ITSELF. Let me help you. You should have said "AMEN BROTHER, also this scripture helps...John 10: 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Iron doesn't dull iron, it sharpens iron, lol! Blessings
 
Jun 13, 2014
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It is best to be careful in the use of rhetorical questions. I could change your rhetorical question to: Now who is powerful enough to put themselves into the hand of God? The expected answer is "no one, of course!" = Hence we have 5-point Calvinism!
Its only 5 Point Calvinism because you say so, lol! Let me guess you're the guru of the forum or one of many defenders of the faith where posting religious dialog makes the difference in ushering in the appearance of Jesus. INSTEAD try using your knowledge to ENCOURAGE and agree. Because only thing I detect is you shooting down edifying proposals and hopeful conversations.

[Col 3:16 NKJV] 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Identify the enemy don't strong arm the BODY. God bless
 
Jun 13, 2014
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.....Means; ....you were never righteous....therefore I never knew you as a righteous follower.
I agree! But the IMPACT of that verse that devastates the unbeliever is THERE WAS NO RELATIONSHIP. But I agree with you, Amen!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes and.......... faith without works is....?

Please clarify your point.
Is. non existent (dead)

Thus the person was never saved, because true faith works. And without faith, there is no salvation
 

Leastamongmany

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2019
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Usa
Thanks be to the God of glory,OUR relationship to Him is defined in His word! HIS righteousness is our cloak,HIS wing is our shelter,and HIS rock is our firm foundation! Praise Him from whom ALL blessings flow!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
To me the issue and the imperative is simply that Christ gave His life for each one of us and now His heart longs for and He calls for each one of us to respond in faith to the mighty working of His grace.

To those who respond in faith, Christ offers the free gift of salvation and eternal life.
To those who deny Christ and do not believe, the wages of sin is death and eternal hell for ever.

The decision is a critical one to make: I have chosen to believe and will continue to believe in my Redeemer.
 
Sep 2, 2019
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I think the question many are asking is, if you stopped having faith, did you really have it to begin with?

My issue with this whole thing of "having faith from beginning to end" is what does that practically mean for the believer? Does it mean continually acting in a way which pleases God? Possibly but then there might be those who walk around in fear that they may lose their salvation if they sin, if you know what I mean? So, I don't know where the dividing line is. I do agree that we need to continually hold fast to the faith that we had when we first professed Christ but what happens if we stumble and fall? Or start willfully sinning? Does God abandon us? I need to do more study on the subject because for me and for many others, I am sure it is still an issue of contention.
Hello,

You are close :). In fact, i would say you've probably got it!

1) Does it mean continually acting in a way which pleases God?

Ermmm, yes. Heb 12:14.

2) Possibly but then there might be those who walk around in fear that they may lose their salvation if they sin, if you know what I mean?

Well, we should be! If we're careless enough to get sucked back into the world & enjoy staying there.

Remember, But when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, committing the same abominations as the wicked, will he live? None of the righteous acts he did will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness and sin he has committed, he will die. - Ezek 18:24

3) So, I don't know where the dividing line is.

E.g. If you accidentally cussed in anger, after hitting your thumb with a hammer, i suppose you're not hell bound.

If you're a pastor who leaves his wife of 20 years, & runs off with his young secretary & commits fornication, well..... i guess we all subconciously know where the dividing line is.....we just pretend not to.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-on-believing-and-following-gods-word.186686/

Thank you & have a nice day :coffee:
 
Sep 2, 2019
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I will never be abke to get around the following truth.....it was written to believers and is utterly swept under the rug by salvation losers...

If we believe not, he ABIDES FAITHFUL because he cannot deny himself.

This verse deals with being or becoming faithless after initial belief....the faith, righteousness and blood of Christ has been applied to the believer and of one becomes faithless after one believes, Jesus will still see his blood, faith and righteousness that has been imputed unto the believer.....exactly why the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.....SALVATION is one such gift.....!!!
Hello,

I believe you've gotten the interpretation of those verses terribly wrong, my friend.

"if we deny him, he will also deny us."

The above is the gist.

"if we are faithless, he remains faithful".

The above is where you interpreted it wrongly. God cannot be held at ransom. If you renounce your Christian faith, he will faithfully deny you as well, for God cannot lie. That is what it means.
 
Sep 2, 2019
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I still want to know how and why a person who is truly saved would stop believing? Considering that you lose faith in people who fail you. So I understand that concept. But when does and will God fail us.
God doesn't fail us. He keeps His side of the bargain. On the contrary, it's us/humans who fail him. A covenant takes both hands to clap. The parable of the Sower is testament to that.

Some people go back into the world.

2 Peter 2:22

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

You are truly saved lock, stock & barrel when you finally make it to Heaven. On this side though, you need to fight the good fight & get through the narrow door.

Rev 3:11 ....... so that no one may seize your crown.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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South
adelaiderevival.com
4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white,
for they are worthy.
5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess
his name before my Father and before his angels.
6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Revelation 3:
 
Sep 2, 2019
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Then eternal life is not eternal. And must be earned by our own power.

I believe in Gods omniscience. I do not for a minute think God is going to give a person ETERNAL life, Knowing at some point in the future, he will have to take it back.

So no. I can not believe this loss of salvation interpretation
True that God is Omniscient. True also that God knows who will eventually be saved at the end. BUT that is His prerogative. Not yours!

Your salvation is subject to your behaviour. So stop confusing 'obedience' as 'works'.

Obedience is not 'earning salvation through our own power'. You need to get that false concept outta your head.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,876
1,172
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4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white,
for they are worthy.
5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess
his name before my Father and before his angels.
6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Revelation 3:
Exactly right! The literal rendering here is "the overcoming one" (ho nikon - Greek). It is a present participle which means the "one continuing to overcome". The one who is continuing to overcome will never have his name blotted out of the book of life.

The only way to live a life of overcoming is by faith in Jesus Christ, not by self effort or by just trying harder on our own! That will never work.

Security in Christ is a blessed reality for those who live by faith an overcoming lifestyle.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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This afternoon I’m taking a shut-in out for a couple beers and some fellowship. I guess that means my salvation is still in tact. 😎
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,876
1,172
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This afternoon I’m taking a shut-in out for a couple beers and some fellowship. I guess that means my salvation is still in tact. 😎
LOL! I do not know what that has to do with your salvation!? An infidel can take a shut-in out for a couple of beers and some fellowship! (And that won't get him saved)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,876
1,172
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God doesn't fail us. He keeps His side of the bargain. On the contrary, it's us/humans who fail him. A covenant takes both hands to clap. The parable of the Sower is testament to that.

Some people go back into the world.

2 Peter 2:22

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

You are truly saved lock, stock & barrel when you finally make it to Heaven. On this side though, you need to fight the good fight & get through the narrow door.

Rev 3:11 ....... so that no one may seize your crown.
If I dare ask, if you are a believer, why did you choose a name like "Infidel imam"? Are you a former Islamic imam?

By the way, welcome to CC, and I hope you can learn, and fellowship, and share with others here.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,664
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LOL! I do not know what that has to do with your salvation!? An infidel can take a shut-in out for a couple of beers and some fellowship! (And that won't get him saved)
That’s exactly my point, beloved. Our salvation is an irrevocable gift given to everyone who has faith. It’s all about faith and the gift of salvation is irrevocable.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Is. non existent (dead)

Thus the person was never saved, because true faith works. And without faith, there is no salvation
Dead does not mean non-existent

Something has to have existed to be dead.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Exactly right! The literal rendering here is "the overcoming one" (ho nikon - Greek). It is a present participle which means the "one continuing to overcome". The one who is continuing to overcome will never have his name blotted out of the book of life.

The only way to live a life of overcoming is by faith in Jesus Christ, not by self effort or by just trying harder on our own! That will never work.

Security in Christ is a blessed reality for those who live by faith an overcoming lifestyle.
And how much overcoming is an overcoming lifestyle I wonder?

You seem to want to straddle two lanes simultaneously, the only problem is they are going in the opposite direction.:cautious:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,517
6,849
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God doesn't fail us. He keeps His side of the bargain. On the contrary, it's us/humans who fail him. A covenant takes both hands to clap. The parable of the Sower is testament to that.

Some people go back into the world.

2 Peter 2:22

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

You are truly saved lock, stock & barrel when you finally make it to Heaven. On this side though, you need to fight the good fight & get through the narrow door.

Rev 3:11 ....... so that no one may seize your crown.
This is a pure works doctrine, and a false Gospel.
And I am surprised Chester agreed with this.
We DO NOT help God save us..