Why Men Hate Church and No More Christian Nice Guys.

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Aug 16, 2021
28
14
3
Midwest
#1
Since I was saved in 1973, I could never really reconcile the world of that day just like the world of today,
with Christianity and how I know it's been manipulated by the Body of Christ (including many guilty passive
Preacher's seeking approval from their congregations) and how the Body is pretty much built on that kind
of passive thinking and doctrine.


I'm talking about men...real men...not wussies, Casper Milktoast's, easy-to-get-along-with guys who think
that staying away from conflict of any kind qualifies them to be like Jesus.


The next time you visist your local/area Christian bookstore, or even your public library, try to find the following:

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" by David Murrow. To summarize, he point's out the problem with the church
being pretty much geared toward women, children and old folks. Men feel emasculated in so many respects.
Example, men's prayer rooms, inside of which is a small round table, Kleenix boxes with with flower patterns,
lace curtains on the windows and at least one or two portraits of Jesus showing him with curly hair as if He
just returned from the beauty salon, wearing a gown of pure white with plunging neckline and too much
mascara and blush. I'm serious! What man...real masculine man wants to be surrounded by that???


Brother Murrow also focuses on other matters involving masculine men avoiding church and the reasons for it.

The next is: No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. The original official title is: "No More Christian Nice
Guy: Why being Nice Instead of Good hurts Men, Women and Children".


To summarize, Brother Coughlin shows us the difference between being a Christian "nice" guy as opposed to a
Christian good guy.


A Christian "nice" guy avoids all conflict at all costs, believing that all passivity is synonymous with "godliness".
These "nice" guys end up being taken advantage of and sometimes beat up.


A Christian Good Guy on the other hand, is not necessarily nice, but he's polite and respectful, especially toward
church and secular authority. A Christian Good Guy also knows when to kick butt and take names! Christian Good
Guys won't stand for bullying for example, whereas a Christian "nice" gives up and says "Let the Lord take care of it.",
and looks the other way. he just doesn't any trouble from neighbors, co-workers, and so on.


A Christian Good Guy undoubtedly owns more than one firearm, is conservative in his politics, supports our military
and law enforcement, even approving the use of force to defend life. He can also be found watching movies starring
Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and the like. But he can counted on knowing his Bible
inside and out and witness with real Godly authority without being a menace. He respects women, but knows the
Biblical difference between men's roles and women's roles in the Body of Christ.


Then there's "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity" by Dr. Leon J. Podles. The book is a bit wordy,
but once you get into it, there's no stopping what you can learn from it.
 
Aug 16, 2021
28
14
3
Midwest
#2
The Body of Christ needs REAL MEN!!!!..... and not overly-apologetic, squeamish, girly-boys
who think it's a ok for the world (the unsaved) to set the rules and expect us to comply!!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,897
10,436
113
#3
Coughlin’s book is among the top five for having the most influence on my life. I would recommend it to many Christian men.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,587
4,509
113
#4
I thought church needed more women because it was tradtionally an oldboys club that excluded them....like not letting them even speak

Could be wrong tho
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
1,069
871
113
#5
I thought church needed more women because it was tradtionally an oldboys club that excluded them....like not letting them even speak

Could be wrong tho
Is that what your church is like? An ol' boys club? Or is that just something you see in your culture? Biblically, men are to teach and women are to be quiet and not usurp their authority. That doesn't mean women can't speak. The Bible tells us that the older women are to teach the younger. Is that what you're referring to when you mention women being excluded? Traditionally, church was thought of as a place for women and children and men had to be dragged there, kicking and screaming the whole way.

In our church, women play sooo many roles. They're working the computers and video to get things online for the sermon. They're in the nursery and classrooms, teaching the kids and watching the babies. They're on stage, leading worship. My best friend is in charge of the worship ministry. The pastor's daughter has classes she teaches to adults and children, depending on the night. She is also a mentor to teens, both male and female. From what I've seen, the church is mostly run by women and there is a need for men to step up and lead.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
36,231
13,516
113
66
Tennessee
#6
I thought church needed more women because it was tradtionally an oldboys club that excluded them....like not letting them even speak

Could be wrong tho
Paul says the women should be silent in church and to talk to their husband at home. Assuming of course the woman has a husband. Or perhaps their significant other. Paul didn't permit women to speak in church.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
1,069
871
113
#7
Paul says the women should be silent in church and to talk to their husband at home. Assuming of course the woman has a husband. Or perhaps their significant other. Paul didn't permit women to speak in church.
could probably ask their fathers, if they didn't have a husband.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,921
2,749
113
#9
Since I was saved in 1973, I could never really reconcile the world of that day just like the world of today,
with Christianity and how I know it's been manipulated by the Body of Christ (including many guilty passive
Preacher's seeking approval from their congregations) and how the Body is pretty much built on that kind
of passive thinking and doctrine.


I'm talking about men...real men...not wussies, Casper Milktoast's, easy-to-get-along-with guys who think
that staying away from conflict of any kind qualifies them to be like Jesus.


The next time you visist your local/area Christian bookstore, or even your public library, try to find the following:

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" by David Murrow. To summarize, he point's out the problem with the church
being pretty much geared toward women, children and old folks. Men feel emasculated in so many respects.
Example, men's prayer rooms, inside of which is a small round table, Kleenix boxes with with flower patterns,
lace curtains on the windows and at least one or two portraits of Jesus showing him with curly hair as if He
just returned from the beauty salon, wearing a gown of pure white with plunging neckline and too much
mascara and blush. I'm serious! What man...real masculine man wants to be surrounded by that???


Brother Murrow also focuses on other matters involving masculine men avoiding church and the reasons for it.

The next is: No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. The original official title is: "No More Christian Nice
Guy: Why being Nice Instead of Good hurts Men, Women and Children".


To summarize, Brother Coughlin shows us the difference between being a Christian "nice" guy as opposed to a
Christian good guy.


A Christian "nice" guy avoids all conflict at all costs, believing that all passivity is synonymous with "godliness".
These "nice" guys end up being taken advantage of and sometimes beat up.


A Christian Good Guy on the other hand, is not necessarily nice, but he's polite and respectful, especially toward
church and secular authority. A Christian Good Guy also knows when to kick butt and take names! Christian Good
Guys won't stand for bullying for example, whereas a Christian "nice" gives up and says "Let the Lord take care of it.",
and looks the other way. he just doesn't any trouble from neighbors, co-workers, and so on.


A Christian Good Guy undoubtedly owns more than one firearm, is conservative in his politics, supports our military
and law enforcement, even approving the use of force to defend life. He can also be found watching movies starring
Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and the like. But he can counted on knowing his Bible
inside and out and witness with real Godly authority without being a menace. He respects women, but knows the
Biblical difference between men's roles and women's roles in the Body of Christ.


Then there's "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity" by Dr. Leon J. Podles. The book is a bit wordy,
but once you get into it, there's no stopping what you can learn from it.
as a Preacher myself, I can tell you this started with the Bastardization of boys from welfare and the LGBT movement which took root in the 1980s. Most Generation X was raised with only one parent in the home that is the mother, who was not fully equipped to raise boys to men. SOME WERE SUCCESSFUL THE MAJORITY WERE NOT. I want to say that now before some liberal snowflake woman starts grabbing her pink hat and Shouting TOXIC MASCULINITY !!!!

This is why Islam is so appealing to men because of the empowerment they feel, and the church is asking us to be more sensitive and deal with the emotions that betray us.

A real man of God has no fear, he stands up to injustice and calls sin, sin. Just like Peter did when HE was told DO NOT TEACH IN this name Peter said Go pound sand !!! NOt only will I teach in HIS I am going to Baptize people in HIS name as an open Protest Publicly !!

To my Oneness people that is why historically Baptism in the Name of Jesus was done.

Paul openly rebuked Roman courts when his rights as a Roman citizen were violated read in the book of Acts.

Jesus has said to the Pharisees in Matthew 23 YOU Hypocrite !!! Full of dead men's bones making those who come to God more of a child of Satan than you are. We are stand against sin, homosexuality, and transgender that is killing and destroying men and women. We suppose to stand against the murder of the unborn. all that can be done while proclaiming the good news of the Gospel.

WE should be speaking to our school boards, city council, local police authorities, gangs, homeless, and Teachers, and political leaders.

Let them know as Nathen did to David the King, YOU ARE THE MAN!! God will hold you responsible for the leadership you have done. WE need to let them know that we publicly rebuke you of your sin and are praying that God will remove you from this office.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,060
1,899
113
#10
I think the church needs real strong people, not only men. Christ was no wimp, his ways are revolutionary, even today. It takes nerves of steel and complete dedication to Christ to follow in his footsteps. Nations ask men to be willing to give up their lives in times of war. Christ is at war with demons. Christ asks us to be willing to give up our lives as citizens of his kingdom, that takes strong people. Christ asks us to consider working for him more important than any things we can buy, and working for God is working for the good of all people God created. That means giving up the fancy new car and showcase house, it takes strong confident people with complete faith in Christ and the kingdom of the Lord instead of the kingdom of the world. Besides Christ asks us to do all this with inner calm faith instead of with the sword or with fighting. It takes strength.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,921
2,749
113
#11
I think the church needs real strong people, not only men. Christ was no wimp, his ways are revolutionary, even today. It takes nerves of steel and complete dedication to Christ to follow in his footsteps. Nations ask men to be willing to give up their lives in times of war. Christ is at war with demons. Christ asks us to be willing to give up our lives as citizens of his kingdom, that takes strong people. Christ asks us to consider working for him more important than any things we can buy, and working for God is working for the good of all people God created. That means giving up the fancy new car and showcase house, it takes strong confident people with complete faith in Christ and the kingdom of the Lord instead of the kingdom of the world. Besides Christ asks us to do all this with inner calm faith instead of with the sword or with fighting. It takes strength.
IF we don't fight with the sword of the Spirit we will have to fight with the sword of the flesh which is war. either way, you going to fight or die.
 

JTB

Active member
Aug 31, 2021
213
117
43
#12
Since I was saved in 1973, I could never really reconcile the world of that day just like the world of today,
with Christianity and how I know it's been manipulated by the Body of Christ (including many guilty passive
Preacher's seeking approval from their congregations) and how the Body is pretty much built on that kind
of passive thinking and doctrine.


I'm talking about men...real men...not wussies, Casper Milktoast's, easy-to-get-along-with guys who think
that staying away from conflict of any kind qualifies them to be like Jesus.


The next time you visist your local/area Christian bookstore, or even your public library, try to find the following:

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" by David Murrow. To summarize, he point's out the problem with the church
being pretty much geared toward women, children and old folks. Men feel emasculated in so many respects.
Example, men's prayer rooms, inside of which is a small round table, Kleenix boxes with with flower patterns,
lace curtains on the windows and at least one or two portraits of Jesus showing him with curly hair as if He
just returned from the beauty salon, wearing a gown of pure white with plunging neckline and too much
mascara and blush. I'm serious! What man...real masculine man wants to be surrounded by that???


Brother Murrow also focuses on other matters involving masculine men avoiding church and the reasons for it.

The next is: No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. The original official title is: "No More Christian Nice
Guy: Why being Nice Instead of Good hurts Men, Women and Children".


To summarize, Brother Coughlin shows us the difference between being a Christian "nice" guy as opposed to a
Christian good guy.


A Christian "nice" guy avoids all conflict at all costs, believing that all passivity is synonymous with "godliness".
These "nice" guys end up being taken advantage of and sometimes beat up.


A Christian Good Guy on the other hand, is not necessarily nice, but he's polite and respectful, especially toward
church and secular authority. A Christian Good Guy also knows when to kick butt and take names! Christian Good
Guys won't stand for bullying for example, whereas a Christian "nice" gives up and says "Let the Lord take care of it.",
and looks the other way. he just doesn't any trouble from neighbors, co-workers, and so on.


A Christian Good Guy undoubtedly owns more than one firearm, is conservative in his politics, supports our military
and law enforcement, even approving the use of force to defend life. He can also be found watching movies starring
Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and the like. But he can counted on knowing his Bible
inside and out and witness with real Godly authority without being a menace. He respects women, but knows the
Biblical difference between men's roles and women's roles in the Body of Christ.


Then there's "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity" by Dr. Leon J. Podles. The book is a bit wordy,
but once you get into it, there's no stopping what you can learn from it.
While you make a valid point, methinks too many go too far with it in the search to have their ears tickled.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,154
1,003
113
#13
Since I was saved in 1973, I could never really reconcile the world of that day just like the world of today,
with Christianity and how I know it's been manipulated by the Body of Christ (including many guilty passive
Preacher's seeking approval from their congregations) and how the Body is pretty much built on that kind
of passive thinking and doctrine.


I'm talking about men...real men...not wussies, Casper Milktoast's, easy-to-get-along-with guys who think
that staying away from conflict of any kind qualifies them to be like Jesus.


The next time you visist your local/area Christian bookstore, or even your public library, try to find the following:

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" by David Murrow. To summarize, he point's out the problem with the church
being pretty much geared toward women, children and old folks. Men feel emasculated in so many respects.
Example, men's prayer rooms, inside of which is a small round table, Kleenix boxes with with flower patterns,
lace curtains on the windows and at least one or two portraits of Jesus showing him with curly hair as if He
just returned from the beauty salon, wearing a gown of pure white with plunging neckline and too much
mascara and blush. I'm serious! What man...real masculine man wants to be surrounded by that???


Brother Murrow also focuses on other matters involving masculine men avoiding church and the reasons for it.

The next is: No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. The original official title is: "No More Christian Nice
Guy: Why being Nice Instead of Good hurts Men, Women and Children".


To summarize, Brother Coughlin shows us the difference between being a Christian "nice" guy as opposed to a
Christian good guy.


A Christian "nice" guy avoids all conflict at all costs, believing that all passivity is synonymous with "godliness".
These "nice" guys end up being taken advantage of and sometimes beat up.


A Christian Good Guy on the other hand, is not necessarily nice, but he's polite and respectful, especially toward
church and secular authority. A Christian Good Guy also knows when to kick butt and take names! Christian Good
Guys won't stand for bullying for example, whereas a Christian "nice" gives up and says "Let the Lord take care of it.",
and looks the other way. he just doesn't any trouble from neighbors, co-workers, and so on.


A Christian Good Guy undoubtedly owns more than one firearm, is conservative in his politics, supports our military
and law enforcement, even approving the use of force to defend life. He can also be found watching movies starring
Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and the like. But he can counted on knowing his Bible
inside and out and witness with real Godly authority without being a menace. He respects women, but knows the
Biblical difference between men's roles and women's roles in the Body of Christ.


Then there's "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity" by Dr. Leon J. Podles. The book is a bit wordy,
but once you get into it, there's no stopping what you can learn from it.
isn’t the church meant to be based on Christs doctrine ? So for instance shouldnt we consider and begin with what Christ taught and apply it to our own selves first ?

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.


But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:20-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s just one page from one of his sermons who we call lord. I think real Christian men are going to be found pursuing and also sharing Christs doctrine in thier life. I believe church should be teaching the gospel and it would make people more like Jesus in morals and thought and of course proper actions would be the result of faith
 
Jul 10, 2021
74
12
8
66
#14
Looking outside yourself which is called observation and blinds us all till we wake. Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
28,003
5,194
113
#15
I'm curious about all of this. Given that most all of what I read here states that MEN are in charge of the Churches around the Country. Pastors, Deacons, and such......how is it that those IN CHARGE of the Churches have turned them towards women and children and away from men?

Seems to me that if the men in the Church are concerned about this, they should look in the mirror to see who is to blame, right?

FYI: my Church serves ALL of it's Members, which is what it is suppose to do, right?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,921
2,749
113
#16
I'm curious about all of this. Given that most all of what I read here states that MEN are in charge of the Churches around the Country. Pastors, Deacons, and such......how is it that those IN CHARGE of the Churches have turned them towards women and children and away from men?

Seems to me that if the men in the Church are concerned about this, they should look in the mirror to see who is to blame, right?

FYI: my Church serves ALL of it's Members, which is what it is suppose to do, right?
where do you leave at ? what State?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
36,231
13,516
113
66
Tennessee
#17
Since I was saved in 1973, I could never really reconcile the world of that day just like the world of today,
with Christianity and how I know it's been manipulated by the Body of Christ (including many guilty passive
Preacher's seeking approval from their congregations) and how the Body is pretty much built on that kind
of passive thinking and doctrine.


I'm talking about men...real men...not wussies, Casper Milktoast's, easy-to-get-along-with guys who think
that staying away from conflict of any kind qualifies them to be like Jesus.


The next time you visist your local/area Christian bookstore, or even your public library, try to find the following:

"Why Men Hate Going To Church" by David Murrow. To summarize, he point's out the problem with the church
being pretty much geared toward women, children and old folks. Men feel emasculated in so many respects.
Example, men's prayer rooms, inside of which is a small round table, Kleenix boxes with with flower patterns,
lace curtains on the windows and at least one or two portraits of Jesus showing him with curly hair as if He
just returned from the beauty salon, wearing a gown of pure white with plunging neckline and too much
mascara and blush. I'm serious! What man...real masculine man wants to be surrounded by that???


Brother Murrow also focuses on other matters involving masculine men avoiding church and the reasons for it.

The next is: No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. The original official title is: "No More Christian Nice
Guy: Why being Nice Instead of Good hurts Men, Women and Children".


To summarize, Brother Coughlin shows us the difference between being a Christian "nice" guy as opposed to a
Christian good guy.


A Christian "nice" guy avoids all conflict at all costs, believing that all passivity is synonymous with "godliness".
These "nice" guys end up being taken advantage of and sometimes beat up.


A Christian Good Guy on the other hand, is not necessarily nice, but he's polite and respectful, especially toward
church and secular authority. A Christian Good Guy also knows when to kick butt and take names! Christian Good
Guys won't stand for bullying for example, whereas a Christian "nice" gives up and says "Let the Lord take care of it.",
and looks the other way. he just doesn't any trouble from neighbors, co-workers, and so on.


A Christian Good Guy undoubtedly owns more than one firearm, is conservative in his politics, supports our military
and law enforcement, even approving the use of force to defend life. He can also be found watching movies starring
Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and the like. But he can counted on knowing his Bible
inside and out and witness with real Godly authority without being a menace. He respects women, but knows the
Biblical difference between men's roles and women's roles in the Body of Christ.


Then there's "The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity" by Dr. Leon J. Podles. The book is a bit wordy,
but once you get into it, there's no stopping what you can learn from it.
What denomination is your church?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,154
1,003
113
#19
I'm curious about all of this. Given that most all of what I read here states that MEN are in charge of the Churches around the Country. Pastors, Deacons, and such......how is it that those IN CHARGE of the Churches have turned them towards women and children and away from men?

Seems to me that if the men in the Church are concerned about this, they should look in the mirror to see who is to blame, right?

FYI: my Church serves ALL of it's Members, which is what it is suppose to do, right?
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should look to things differently when we’re in Christ

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure once we are baptized into his death gender is supposed to be an issue