Why No Women Are To Be Speaking In Church

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T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#141
Jan 31, 2009
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#141
kujo313 said:
What we're dealing with is the lifestyles of the people in another place in another time. Today, women are teachers. God is giving then something to say. I think we should hear it.
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NO!!! what we are dealing with is God's punishment on woman because the first woman was deceived and she was also told that she would have sorrow with conception which is still intact, just as man's punishment is still in tact and the serpent's punishment is still intact, only the part that woman can control has been changed with some women.

Ge 3:16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
1ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp AUTHORITY over the man, but to be in silence.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#142
#142
Well, women still have pain in childbirth...BUT we have medications that make that go away. Is it wrong for the women to take the medication or the epideral or whatever it is just because we are supposed to be in a lot of pain?
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#143
#143
  • Main Entry: usurp
  • Pronunciation: \yu̇-ˈsərp also -ˈzərp\
  • Function: verb
  • Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French usorper, from Latin usurpare to take possession of without legal claim, from usually (abl. of usus use) + rapere to seize — more at rapid
  • Date: 14th century
transitive verb 1 a : to seize and hold (as office, place, or powers) in possession by force or without right <usurp a throne> b : to take or make use of without right <usurped the rights to her life story>
2 : to take the place of by or as if by force : supplant <must not let stock responses based on inherited prejudice usurp careful judgment>

Also, the bible keeps talking about women usurping the authority from men. That means taking it by force, or seizing it. If authority is freely given to a woman, wouldn't that make it okay? She's not usurping then, the authority was freely given.
 
D

Densetzu

Banned
#144
Jul 6, 2009
318
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#144
Thaddeus, please be calm. Paul is not God, and even the inspiration of the Spirit was filtered through his prejudices.

And if giving a woman rightfully deserved authority is a sin, I think Jesus would have said something of it.

And you can't use a creation narrative to justify sexism; that's like using Mars Attacks to justify an anti-Alien agenda.
 
Semiazas

Semiazas

Banned
#145
Sep 2, 2009
249
1
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#145
heh, mars attacks, curse those aliens!
but anyway, if female pains in childbirth are given because of eves "sin" why do all other female animals experience the same pain in childbirth? shouldnt it be uniquely human?
i think the usurp authority thing just means dont be too mouthy, which should go for everybody.
 
H

happynGod

Guest
#146
#146
Few scriptures. Titus 1:5-9 1 timothy 3:1-7 1Timothy 2:11-14.. If you read you will get the answer. These are just a few. GBU
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#147
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
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#147
Densetzu said:
Thaddeus, please be calm. Paul is not God, and even the inspiration of the Spirit was filtered through his prejudices.

And if giving a woman rightfully deserved authority is a sin, I think Jesus would have said something of it.

And you can't use a creation narrative to justify sexism; that's like using Mars Attacks to justify an anti-Alien agenda.
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sorry for the delayed response, this statement that you just made is so unbibical that is almost scarely to think that one would preach such a doctrine that Paul was preaching His prejudices here. one can not pick and choice parts Of the Inspired Word Of God, that we want to believe . this is not a Burger King religion where as you can have it your way. no Paul is Not God, but He was annointted By God to be His Mouth piece for the scriptures. So I guess you would not agree with this verse also

2ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


oh yeah and while we are cutting verses out of scvriptures let's cut this one out also


Mt 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
tell me please what scriptures can we believe. or better yet please tell me of the scriptures that god densetzu would have us to believe so that we can please God. seeing that you know better than Paul Himself on the ways that pleases God
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#148
#148
The more and more we die to the flesh, the less and less our ego is. It is our flesh that makes us want to seek position and recognition instead of being content in what God wants for his Church, that I believe is relational and not instituitional. If we could all get more of a revelation that it is a relational body instead of an institution then it would remove so much misunderstandings and striving to want to be something. If the word says a woman cannot preach speak, then, so be it. God is God and what he says goes as he is the one who setus up the headship as Christ being the head of man and the man the head of the woman. This is an example of the way that Christ has intended also for his assemblying. Women are to be obedient to their "Own" husbands. We are not in submission to any other man other than our husbands, but, in the assembling when we are with our husbands, we know that the authority of God brings it over into the gathered worshipping of the saints. That is why a woman can prosphesy in an assemblying because she is in true submission to her husband and his covering of her to protect her, he gives permission to her to prophesy. That is why a woman to speak "uncovered" is a shame for a woman to speak without a covering on her head. If a woman truly is gifted from God in prophesy and a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge, tongues etc, any of the speaking gifts, God will open the door for her to minister in that gift. This is how the body of Christ keeps herisies out. That is why women are to be keepers of the home, SO THE WORD OF GOD WILL NOT BE BLASPHEMED. We women have to realize that we are the weaker vessel. We are equal as a man in the eyes of God in the spirit, but, in our fleshly rhelm until Christ comes to be glorified in his saints, it should not be a burden to fulfill how God has made us. If we are struggling and angry and testy at the commandments of God, then we should examine ourselves and our motives of why we want to speak out at a church. Is is for recognition of man or to please man? If we are there to please God, then God will use us as he sees fit. We are the clay and he is the potter.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#149
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
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#149
Jezreel said:
The more and more we die to the flesh, the less and less our ego is. It is our flesh that makes us want to seek position and recognition instead of being content in what God wants for his Church, that I believe is relational and not instituitional. If we could all get more of a revelation that it is a relational body instead of an institution then it would remove so much misunderstandings and striving to want to be something. If the word says a woman cannot preach speak, then, so be it. God is God and what he says goes as he is the one who setus up the headship as Christ being the head of man and the man the head of the woman. This is an example of the way that Christ has intended also for his assemblying. Women are to be obedient to their "Own" husbands. We are not in submission to any other man other than our husbands, but, in the assembling when we are with our husbands, we know that the authority of God brings it over into the gathered worshipping of the saints. That is why a woman can prosphesy in an assemblying because she is in true submission to her husband and his covering of her to protect her, he gives permission to her to prophesy. That is why a woman to speak "uncovered" is a shame for a woman to speak without a covering on her head. If a woman truly is gifted from God in prophesy and a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge, tongues etc, any of the speaking gifts, God will open the door for her to minister in that gift. This is how the body of Christ keeps herisies out. That is why women are to be keepers of the home, SO THE WORD OF GOD WILL NOT BE BLASPHEMED. We women have to realize that we are the weaker vessel. We are equal as a man in the eyes of God in the spirit, but, in our fleshly rhelm until Christ comes to be glorified in his saints, it should not be a burden to fulfill how God has made us. If we are struggling and angry and testy at the commandments of God, then we should examine ourselves and our motives of why we want to speak out at a church. Is is for recognition of man or to please man? If we are there to please God, then God will use us as he sees fit. We are the clay and he is the potter.
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great post. well spoken, men need to learn their place also "if my people whom are called by My Name shall humble themselves."
 
M

Mobius

Banned
#150
Sep 27, 2009
261
1
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#150
This is too much for a late comer such as myself to catch up on.. so I hope I'm not repeating what's already been said.

But I gotta say, taking it back to the creation story doesn't really work. For example, what about Moshe and A'aron's sister, Miriam, whom scripture also calls a prophet?

Or what about the story of Esther? She was both a civil AND religious leader, and scripture is quite clear that the Israelites were not just blessed, but saved from total destruction, by her inspired plan, and the fact that all the Israelites did submit to her religious instructions.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#151
#151
The Jews were in captivity because of their disobedience to God. When God uses a woman in the old covenant it is truly a shame that there was not a man worthy of God using. Even Deborah. God used her and that was saying to the men at that time that it was actually a disgrace that he had to use a woman because there was not a man Godly enough to be worthy of Him using. As far as Esther being a civil and religeous leader, that is not in my bible in the book of Esther. She was married to a gentile king.
 
L

lil-rush

Guest
#152
#152
Jezreel said:
The Jews were in captivity because of their disobedience to God. When God uses a woman in the old covenant it is truly a shame that there was not a man worthy of God using. Even Deborah. God used her and that was saying to the men at that time that it was actually a disgrace that he had to use a woman because there was not a man Godly enough to be worthy of Him using. As far as Esther being a civil and religeous leader, that is not in my bible in the book of Esther. She was married to a gentile king.
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And Miriam?
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#153
#153
Miriam and Aaron were Moses's brother and sister. As a matter of fact, her pride got her a case of leprosy because of her having an ungodly prideful attitude about "has not God also spoken through us"? She was judgemental about the wife Moses married and that upset God and so he smote her with leprosy. Moses interceeded for her and God did heal of the leprosy but she had to go for a time, outside the camp. She was still under the authority of Moses and God.
 
L

lil-rush

Guest
#154
#154
Jezreel said:
Miriam and Aaron were Moses's brother and sister. As a matter of fact, her pride got her a case of leprosy because of her having an ungodly prideful attitude about "has not God also spoken through us"? She was judgemental about the wife Moses married and that upset God and so he smote her with leprosy. Moses interceeded for her and God did heal of the leprosy but she had to go for a time, outside the camp. She was still under the authority of Moses and God.
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But what is the excuse you would like to give for God making her a prophet? You say Deborah was only chosen because there were no available men, and you say Esther wasn't even a religious leader, so what is the fault with Miriam?

Her becoming prideful at one point in her life has nothing to do with her being a prophet.
 
M

Mobius

Banned
#155
Sep 27, 2009
261
1
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#155
Wait, what? I missed that in Jezreel's post. Of course Esther WAS a civil authority (a queen). She also gave a distinctly RELIGIOUS command, for all the Israelites to follow, that being that they would fast and pray for three days, until the time when she would go in to the king, without being invited (which WAS an act of civil disobedience, and could have cost her life).

But then, that's exactly what made her such a great leader.

"Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends"

And that's exactly what she did, without the benefit of having this Messianic adage. She put her own life on the line, in order to save her people from destruction. And the story clearly shows that G-d smiled upon these actions, and did in fact, not only deliver her and her people from destruction, but brought to ruin those who had sought their destruction.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#156
#156
She did do that but there was not anything she did in ministering according to the law of the functions of priests for offerings etc that are a type and shadow of things to come in the New Testament church. She did do the ultimate taking the chance of going into the king. She took the chance of dying of entering into the king but that has nothing to do with the New Covenant Body of Christ as far as what the apostles were given by Jesus Christ. Just because we like something and think something ought to be a certain way and that it don't seem fair if it don't, doesn't change the rules. God gave the five fold minsitry as gifts to the church and they are to be men.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#157
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#157
Mobius said:
This is too much for a late comer such as myself to catch up on.. so I hope I'm not repeating what's already been said.

But I gotta say, taking it back to the creation story doesn't really work. For example, what about Moshe and A'aron's sister, Miriam, whom scripture also calls a prophet?

Or what about the story of Esther? She was both a civil AND religious leader, and scripture is quite clear that the Israelites were not just blessed, but saved from total destruction, by her inspired plan, and the fact that all the Israelites did submit to her religious instructions.
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well if you don't think taking back to the first fall is right, then you need to take it up with God


1ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.1ti 2:13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.1ti 2:14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.1ti 2:15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

you have missed alot, a prophet has no authority in the church, the Bible clearly teaches that in the last days our sons and daughters will prophecise. the story of Esther was about the woman being under subject to the man that was the only way esther had a door open to the castle was the first queen did not reverence the king and she was cast out. is this the part you were wanting us to learn from Esther? i really don't see anywhere that she was a religious leader maybe I misssed it though what she suggested was made a decree of the king this is why people took heed to it.
 
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T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#158
Jan 31, 2009
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#158
lil-rush said:
But what is the excuse you would like to give for God making her a prophet? You say Deborah was only chosen because there were no available men, and you say Esther wasn't even a religious leader, so what is the fault with Miriam?

Her becoming prideful at one point in her life has nothing to do with her being a prophet.
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once again Let me say this, a prophet has no authority in the Church, the Bible clearly says that in the last days your sons and daughter shall prophecise.
 
DeeperStill

DeeperStill

Banned
#159
Jul 21, 2009
58
0
0
#159
Thank you lord for freedom because every man women and child has the right to be wrong.

and most of us are.

 
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