Why so much confusion about salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
20,962
11,155
113
#1
I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#2
I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?
Some people just can not keep self out of the process.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#4
The confusion arises when we try to make a formula for what is really a process. Things can be true for a person to varying degrees depending on the depth of understanding, wisdom and knowledge. We are to grow into those as well. :)
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#5
The confusion arises when we try to make a formula for what is really a process. Things can be true for a person to varying degrees depending on the depth of understanding, wisdom and knowledge. We are to grow into those as well. :)
Growing in Christ is a process.

Salvation is an event that occurs when a person confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). The moment a person does that, he is sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit, guaranteeing his salvation (Eph 1:13-14).
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#6
I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?
The first 2 points can be challenged, Christ said He came to save "many" He didn't say the whole world. In another place, He said He would lose none of those the Father gave Him.
He could have said I will lose none of the world if He came to save the whole world as in humanity as a whole
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#7
Growing in Christ is a process.

Salvation is an event that occurs when a person confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). The moment a person does that, he is sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit, guaranteeing his salvation (Eph 1:13-14).

God saves us by giving us a new heart. But the soul (mind and will) remain as carnal as before. As such the soul has just begun to be saved when the heart is regenerated. We are to work out our salvation with fear and much trembling. That's the way to a salvation that actually sticks...and sticks it out until the soul is saved entirely.

It is better to see what lies ahead than to rest on supposed laurels that were a free gift...but which we may not be able to retain according to the purpose of God.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#8
God saves us by giving us a new heart. But the soul (mind and will) remain as carnal as before. As such the soul has just begun to be saved when the heart is regenerated. We are to work out our salvation with fear and much trembling. That's the way to a salvation that actually sticks...and sticks it out until the soul is saved entirely.

It is better to see what lies ahead than to rest on supposed laurels that were a free gift...but which we may not be able to retain according to the purpose of God.
Would you agree that only God knows who will remain faithful until the end? I don't think that any of us can say with absolute certainty, that we will remain in the faith until the end. All we can do is trust the Lord with all our hearts, but only God knows 100% which of us will make it.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#9
God saves us by giving us a new heart. But the soul (mind and will) remain as carnal as before. As such the soul has just begun to be saved when the heart is regenerated. We are to work out our salvation with fear and much trembling. That's the way to a salvation that actually sticks...and sticks it out until the soul is saved entirely.
Salvation sticks.

It is better to see what lies ahead than to rest on supposed laurels that were a free gift...but which we may not be able to retain according to the purpose of God.
Rom 11:
29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
20,962
11,155
113
#10
The first 2 points can be challenged, Christ said He came to save "many" He didn't say the whole world.
What if He did? Would you believe Him?
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#11
Would you agree that only God knows who will remain faithful until the end? I don't think that any of us can say with absolute certainty, that we will remain in the faith until the end. All we can do is trust the Lord with all our hearts, but only God knows 100% which of us will make it.
If a person is saved, he has "made it". The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13; 4:30).
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#12
If a person is saved, he has "made it". The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13; 4:30).
If a person is saved, he has "made it". The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13; 4:30).
Would you agree that there are those who, who make a profession of faith and perform all of the outward signs so that anyone who looks at their lives would say they are model Christians but inwardly they are not true believers. They themselves may think they are but they were never truly saved from the beginning. There are examples of such people in the Bible
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#13
Would you agree that only God knows who will remain faithful until the end? I don't think that any of us can say with absolute certainty, that we will remain in the faith until the end. All we can do is trust the Lord with all our hearts, but only God knows 100% which of us will make it.

Wow...a humble person! Rare at this time. You are right of course. We should be careful what we think we are capable (or incapable) of. How many people really know themselves? Did Peter know himself? Did Judas?
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#14
If a person is saved, he has "made it". The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13; 4:30).

He who is redeemed hasn't made anything let alone "made it"...God has simply called Him. The error is in thinking that we will be judged by what we get as a gift. No, we will be judged by what we do with what we have been given. We will all be judged by our deeds.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#15
Would you agree that there are those who, who make a profession of faith and perform all of the outward signs so that anyone who looks at their lives would say they are model Christians but inwardly they are not true believers. They themselves may think they are but they were never truly saved from the beginning. There are examples of such people in the Bible
What I know is that if a person does what Romans 10:9-10 says to do, they will be saved. And Eph 1:13 says that when a person hears the gospel and believes it, he is sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. If a person has the gift of the Holy Spirit, he shall be saved.

While we may not know for sure about others (unless we see them manifest the spirit), I believe we can read the Bible and trust what it says, and be confident in our salvation. Again, 1 John 3:1-2: "Now are we the sons of God".
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#16
Woyuld you agree that only God knows who will remain faithful until the end? I don't think that any of us can say with absolute certainty, that we will remain in the faith until the end. All we can do is trust the Lord with all our hearts, but only God knows 100% which of us will make it.
The crux of the matter is one of the differences between Armenianism and Calvinism, point 5. Who is right?

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#17
He who is redeemed hasn't made anything let alone "made it"...God has simply called Him. The error is in thinking that we will be judged by what we get as a gift. No, we will be judged by what we do with what we have been given. We will all be judged by our deeds.
All Christians will be saved because they are born again of the Holy Spirit.

We will all be judged for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. This judgment is not for salvation, but for rewards.

Salvation is a gift, given when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. A Christians salvation is NEVER in doubt.
 
L

LaVieEnRose

Guest
#18
I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?
I think there is confusion because it seems too good to be true for salvation to be full and free- without us doing a thing. People want to know what the catch is. It is like someone giving you a multi-million dollar home, car, clothes, vacations, and telling you that you are not obligated to do a thing except take them. It’s unbelievable.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
49,228
21,860
113
#19
I think there is confusion because it seems too good to be true for salvation to be full and free- without us doing a thing. People want to know what the catch is. It is like someone giving you a multi-million dollar home, car, clothes, vacations, and telling you that you are not obligated to do a thing except take them. It’s unbelievable.
We do have to repent ;) Jesus told us to count the cost.
 
L

LaVieEnRose

Guest
#20
We do have to repent ;) Jesus told us to count the cost.
This is one of those tertiary things, I think. Some people believe repentence comes before salvation, others believe repentence comes after salvation. I am a person who believes it comes after, and sometimes very gradually.