Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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Jan 17, 2020
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These one liners simply won't do. There is not enough meat on them. Are you saying that Paul had the baptism in the Holy Spirit or not?
If he did, where was it TRANSFERRED to him?
Nobody has the Baptism since the end of the first century. Paul even put Timothy on medicine and left some of his compatriots behind sick. The gifts were only for a short time.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This has generated lots of interest so I am posting my understanding of the issue. (I used to be Pentecostal).

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:38 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.
Lol
You must reframe the new testament to come up with such nonsense.
The entire corinthian church was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Paul referenced timothy as recieving a deposit spiritually by the laying on of hands.

Paul,who was baptised in the Holy Spirit,wrote letters to men/women baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Here is your deal defined.
A tribe in the amazon BELIEVES there is no such thing as baseball and New York city.

Well that settles it!

...in their mind
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Lol
You must reframe the new testament to come up with such nonsense.
The entire corinthian church was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Paul referenced timothy as recieving a deposit spiritually by the laying on of hands.

Paul,who was baptised in the Holy Spirit,wrote letters to men/women baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Here is your deal defined.
A tribe in the amazon BELIEVES there is no such thing as baseball and New York city.

Well that settles it!

...in their mind
Paul must have laid hands on them.... He planned to go to Rome to give them spiritual gifts too.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Funny how the cessationist paints himself in a corner.

1) you MUST now take a position that satan is empowering me to speak in tongues and operate under the power of the anointing.(when they did that to Jesus he invoked the unpardonable sin on their heads)
2) they never,ever include the verses that destroy their argument.
(Which is the incubator for error and heresy)

3) neither point is a red flag to them.

4) if they are satisfied in operating in a mental salvation,why are there threads,books and teachings against the body of Christ that obeys Jesus command to tarry in JERUSALEM UNTILL YOU GET THE POWER?

Extremely dangerous ground to frame the power and operation of the Holy Spirit in the realm of the demonic.

Woah.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Come on. Surely every Eastern Orthodox priest you speak to is going to say that I Corinthians 14 is a part of the canon. Paul addressed speaking in tongues and interpretation and how these were to edify the church. What saints said it was _exclusively_ for evangelization? By just quoting the verses in his homily, John Chrysostom contradicted your statement.

There was also the one St. Gregory who thought Acts 2 was along the lines of a 'miracle in the ear' and the other who believed it was actually speaking in foreign languages.



This feels like a bit of a strawman to me. I see critics of speaking in tongues who assume that it is supposed to be 'tongues of angels.' Historically, the emphasis on speaking in tongues is on speaking languages, with more emphasis on human language than tongues of angels. I suppose people would allow for 'tongues of angels' since it is in scripture. It is possible to give ones body to be burned or to give all to the poor, so why wouldn't tongues of angels be possible? There were a number of accounts from the Azusa Street Revival of those present understanding speaking in tongues in their own languages, and even one from the Azusa meeting (and others elsewhere) of them also confirming the interpretation as genuine. Some Pentecostal missionaries have testified to speaking in tongues in the language there on the mission field or else hearing the missions-field language back one. There was a book of similar accounts published in the 1970's. The 'tongues of angels' idea gets discussed by certain theologians, I guess, and probably some groups of charismatics think that way.




I thumbed through 'The Spirit and the Church: Antiquity' which deals with a number of references to spiritual gifts in the writings of the so-called 'church father's' writings as a part of the discussion. He referred to Athanasias prophesying, along with quotes, which would have been just outside of the time period you reference. There are likely some references to tongues as well. What is the doctrinal basis for saying these gifts have ceased? Have you discussed with your priest the idea of whether the Eastern Orthodox church teaches that God will give no man this or certain other gifts? Isn't that up to the Holy Spirit?
It seems so easy yet it would seem some destroy the foundation of the doctrines of God as a law. Like David spoke of.

Psalm 11:3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

The doctrine of tongues as the foundation begins in the old testament, Isaiah 28, as a law revisited for clarification in 1 Corinthians 14. it is identified by those who "yet will not hear the word of God" but rather add to it the oral traditions of men . as an outward sign they fall back mocking God. So with mocking lips called stammering. The Holy Spirit brings in His gospel in all the languages of the world the gospel is spread . The sign of Joel. . priest as prophets men and woman from all nations .And yet they still refuse to discard their own oral tradition.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Isaiah 28:11-13

Again yet they would not hear...

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear
me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Paul must have laid hands on them.... He planned to go to Rome to give them spiritual gifts too.
Not timothy.
I think it was his grandmother that imparted the deposit.

The point is those filled with the Spirit lay hands on those SEEKING.

Since you are not seeking( a real danger in a persons walk,to be sitting on your hands),you will not recieve.

It is based in ignorance,but once revealed,puts a person at the crossroads.
You can go after God and the power he provided,you can do nothing,or you can do what you do in reframing the bible and attributing heavens power and provision to the devil.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Nobody has the Baptism since the end of the first century. Paul even put Timothy on medicine and left some of his compatriots behind sick. The gifts were only for a short time.
The gifts still operate as He wills, not as we will. Jesus said He only does what the Father says. Likewise those led by the Spirit only do what the Spirit tells them to do. Some are healed miraculously, some are passed by. Paul was left with a thorn in the flesh because God did not want to address this particular ailment. God said His grace was sufficient for Paul.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Funny how the cessationist paints himself in a corner.

1) you MUST now take a position that satan is empowering me to speak in tongues and operate under the power of the anointing.(when they did that to Jesus he invoked the unpardonable sin on their heads)
2) they never,ever include the verses that destroy their argument.
(Which is the incubator for error and heresy)

3) neither point is a red flag to them.

4) if they are satisfied in operating in a mental salvation,why are there threads,books and teachings against the body of Christ that obeys Jesus command to tarry in JERUSALEM UNTILL YOU GET THE POWER?

Extremely dangerous ground to frame the power and operation of the Holy Spirit in the realm of the demonic.

Woah.
Do you know the origins of American Pentecostalism? https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Pentecostalism-Its-Roots-Slavery/dp/1500858080 This is one version anyone should at least consider.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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The gifts still operate as He wills, not as we will. Jesus said He only does what the Father says. Likewise those led by the Spirit only do what the Spirit tells them to do. Some are healed miraculously, some are passed by. Paul was left with a thorn in the flesh because God did not want to address this particular ailment. God said His grace was sufficient for Paul.
You ignore the details and offer only opinion.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Let's do this. You explain your view in a post. And I'll explain mine as a follow up. And let the reader decide? Why argue proving only ignorance in the matter?
@Dave-L . Here we go. My line by line. Expecting your line by line.

Hebrews 11

11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

>This is the temple in Israel (Jerusalem) which will be in place during the tribulation. Most likely built in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, but when the Antichrist sits in the temple of God, saying he is God (2 Thessalonians 2v4) this triggers the next 3.5 years (42 months of Great Tribulation).
>This is the warning (to Israel) given in Matthew 24
>Matthew 24 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.


3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

>These are two physical witnesses.
>They will prophesy (speak the words of God)
>They are dressed in sackcloth (physical garments)
>They will prophesy for the same time period as the great tribulation.
>This is literal


4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth.

>This has an old testament corollary in Zechariah 4: 11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip [c]into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?” 13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”And I said, “No, my lord.” 14 So he said, “These are the two [d]anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”
> As to who these two (anointed ones) are, has been the subject of much debate. I (personally) am of the opinion that they are Enoch and Elijah (the only two people in scripture who have not tasted death up to this point, both having been taken up by the Lord).


5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

>as supernatural as it gets. The authority has been given to them to perform all these miracles (I would say that these are baptised in the Holy Spirit, not so?). Nor can they be stopped or killed UNTIL the appointed time by God.

The Witnesses Killed

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

>The only one with authority to kill them, at the appointed time, will be the Antichrist.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified.

>further proof that they have been in Jerusalem all this time, prophesying. Two people.

9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

>The only way that peoples from all nations could see their bodies would be either the fact that representatives of all these people were present in Jerusalem, or instead (what I believe) it is televised (CNN and the like).

The Witnesses Resurrected

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And [e]they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

>These two (possibly Elijah and Enoch) will taste death and will also be resurrected. In full view of the enemies who killed them. After their ascension, an earthquake wipes out a tenth of Jerusalem. This death and resurrection, as well as earthquake – are signs to Israel that Jesus is Lord. For in a similar way Jesus was killed in Jerusalem, was raised in Jerusalem, and an earthquake hit Jerusalem. The reason God does all of this is for his remaining elect (Israel) during the great tribulation.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Not timothy.
I think it was his grandmother that imparted the deposit.

The point is those filled with the Spirit lay hands on those SEEKING.

Since you are not seeking( a real danger in a persons walk,to be sitting on your hands),you will not recieve.

It is based in ignorance,but once revealed,puts a person at the crossroads.
You can go after God and the power he provided,you can do nothing,or you can do what you do in reframing the bible and attributing heavens power and provision to the devil.
“Because of this I remind you to rekindle God’s gift that you possess through the laying on of my hands.” 2 Timothy 1:6 (NET)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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@Dave-L . Here we go. My line by line. Expecting your line by line.

Hebrews 11

11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

>This is the temple in Israel (Jerusalem) which will be in place during the tribulation. Most likely built in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, but when the Antichrist sits in the temple of God, saying he is God (2 Thessalonians 2v4) this triggers the next 3.5 years (42 months of Great Tribulation).
>This is the warning (to Israel) given in Matthew 24
>Matthew 24 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.


3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

>These are two physical witnesses.
>They will prophesy (speak the words of God)
>They are dressed in sackcloth (physical garments)
>They will prophesy for the same time period as the great tribulation.
>This is literal


4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth.

>This has an old testament corollary in Zechariah 4: 11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip [c]into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?” 13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”And I said, “No, my lord.” 14 So he said, “These are the two [d]anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”
> As to who these two (anointed ones) are, has been the subject of much debate. I (personally) am of the opinion that they are Enoch and Elijah (the only two people in scripture who have not tasted death up to this point, both having been taken up by the Lord).


5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

>as supernatural as it gets. The authority has been given to them to perform all these miracles (I would say that these are baptised in the Holy Spirit, not so?). Nor can they be stopped or killed UNTIL the appointed time by God.

The Witnesses Killed

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

>The only one with authority to kill them, at the appointed time, will be the Antichrist.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified.

>further proof that they have been in Jerusalem all this time, prophesying. Two people.

9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

>The only way that peoples from all nations could see their bodies would be either the fact that representatives of all these people were present in Jerusalem, or instead (what I believe) it is televised (CNN and the like).

The Witnesses Resurrected

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And [e]they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

>These two (possibly Elijah and Enoch) will taste death and will also be resurrected. In full view of the enemies who killed them. After their ascension, an earthquake wipes out a tenth of Jerusalem. This death and resurrection, as well as earthquake – are signs to Israel that Jesus is Lord. For in a similar way Jesus was killed in Jerusalem, was raised in Jerusalem, and an earthquake hit Jerusalem. The reason God does all of this is for his remaining elect (Israel) during the great tribulation.
This is Dispensationalism. Have you learned of its origins? The Jesuits came up with it to deceive the protestants after the Reformation. The Protestants said the Pope is Antichrist. So the Jesuits tried to create an Antichrist of the future to throw them off. It worked and many fell for it to the tune of $$$$ false prophecy books and movies circulating today.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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You ignore the details and offer only opinion.
John 12
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

John 5
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Romans 12
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

No need to apologise.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
This is Dispensationalism. Have you learned of its origins? The Jesuits came up with it to deceive the protestants after the Reformation. The Protestants said the Pope is Antichrist. So the Jesuits tried to create an Antichrist of the future to throw them off. It worked and many fell for it to the tune of $$$$ false prophecy books and movies circulating today.
Still no line by line??? That was our deal. Still waiting.....
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Funny how the cessationist paints himself in a corner.

1) you MUST now take a position that satan is empowering me to speak in tongues and operate under the power of the anointing.(when they did that to Jesus he invoked the unpardonable sin on their heads)
2) they never,ever include the verses that destroy their argument.
(Which is the incubator for error and heresy)

3) neither point is a red flag to them.

4) if they are satisfied in operating in a mental salvation,why are there threads,books and teachings against the body of Christ that obeys Jesus command to tarry in JERUSALEM UNTILL YOU GET THE POWER?

Extremely dangerous ground to frame the power and operation of the Holy Spirit in the realm of the demonic.

Woah.
1) I would say Satan is keeping men away from the foundation of the doctrine .Isiah 28 He would have them make a noise and chalk it up as self edification. . . the self filling of the spirit.

And besides that God is no longer bring any new revelations. We have his whole law with no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately . The two witnesses of God the law and the prophets is complete .It is sealed with 7 seal for a reason . Its like the four hundred silence period between the old and new .But this time a warning not to ad or substract from the whole.

God is not served by human hands . He can use a donkey a unclean animal that represent unconverted mankind to bring his word that effectively worked putting a stop to the madness of Balaam a false prophet false apostle. Just like the man in Mathew 7 .Jesus did not say the good works were not performed .Just that we do not know him after the works we do . . . as foolish pride. he will not forget the good works of him working with us that we offer towards His name.

4)If they are not satisfied in operating in a mental salvation (let this mind be in you that was in Jesus. ,why are there threads,books and teachings against the body of Christ that obeys Jesus command to tarry in JERUSALEM the heavenly city prepared as his bride as ambassords from a unseen land. UNTILL YOU GET THE POWER from within to move. ?

Extremely dangerous!
 
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John 12
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

John 5
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Romans 12
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

No need to apologise.
We have mistry gifts. But you should be out raising the dead if you have the Apostle's gifts.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Still no line by line??? That was our deal. Still waiting.....
You cannot understand it if you are a Dispensationalist. You need to drop it and try to start over.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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We have mistry gifts. But you should be out raising the dead if you have the Apostle's gifts.
It is proportion to our faith. I have certain gifts. You are unlikely to have any. See - its in proportion to our faith.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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You cannot understand it if you are a Dispensationalist. You need to drop it and try to start over.
You need to deliver the line by line that you promised.......that was our deal. Show me how you think through these verses. Then I will maybe understand where you are coming from.