Here is a True/False refresher course on the difference between 'rhema' and 'logos'.
Rhemas: Hidden Wisdom in Scripture?
Rhemas: Hidden Wisdom in Scripture?
Why the Prophets Need Each Other
- Thread starter convallaria
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Can you provide one example of a modern-day prophet who has been slain?
Are the prophets of the Bible motivated by fear, or God?
Themes: loneliness, rejection, confusion with how to respond to those who object/reject.
Check out how Elijah responds when he felt the same:
"when faced with the threat of Jezebel and the obvious fact there would be no immediate revival in the land, he suddenly became fearful and discouraged. He then deserted his post and ran for his life. If Jezebel had really wanted him dead, she would have tried to seize him without warning, but, cunning as she was, she wanted rather to discredit him before his new converts and she was successful.
We have asked the question, how could this have happened to such a man of God? We saw that part of the reason undoubtedly lies in the problem of his expectations, in the problem of his lost focus, and in the problem of turning to his own strategies (with the last two problems being the result of the first). It is right to expect the Lord to work, but our expectations must never be the source of our happiness or our confidence in the work of God. We must learn to rest our expectations in God’s sovereignty, trusting Him for the timing and the means.
But the Lord wasn’t through with Elijah and failure doesn’t mean defeat or an end to our ministry. This is also one of the encouraging elements of this chapter. Before God could use Elijah, however, there were some things Elijah had to learn. Elijah’s failure and discouragement (because of his expectations) were due in part to two things. First there was his view of what it would take to change the nation. His God-given successes had made him take his own importance too seriously (19:4, 9, 14). Furthermore, he thought the primary means of reaching the people was the display of God’s power in dramatic and spectacular ways. He thought if they didn’t respond to that, there was no hope. So, when he failed to see the results he expected, he was shattered. Oh, how we often set ourselves up for discouragement by our pride and our expectations which we fail to rest on the foundation of God’s wisdom." (1 Kings 19, Source Article)
I like how Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary summarizes the verses you have shared:
"Nothing more strongly marks a man for eternal ruin, than a spirit of persecution and enmity to the name and people of God. God will trouble those that trouble his people."
If you're troubled, ya don't keep pressing on in vain -- ya face God again, instead of remaining trapped in "self"... like Elijah did...like you have shared here in your OP.
What I take away from this: Our personal expectations will often disappoint. Keep your joy in the Lord, not in your expectations.
Are the prophets of the Bible motivated by fear, or God?
Themes: loneliness, rejection, confusion with how to respond to those who object/reject.
Check out how Elijah responds when he felt the same:
"when faced with the threat of Jezebel and the obvious fact there would be no immediate revival in the land, he suddenly became fearful and discouraged. He then deserted his post and ran for his life. If Jezebel had really wanted him dead, she would have tried to seize him without warning, but, cunning as she was, she wanted rather to discredit him before his new converts and she was successful.
We have asked the question, how could this have happened to such a man of God? We saw that part of the reason undoubtedly lies in the problem of his expectations, in the problem of his lost focus, and in the problem of turning to his own strategies (with the last two problems being the result of the first). It is right to expect the Lord to work, but our expectations must never be the source of our happiness or our confidence in the work of God. We must learn to rest our expectations in God’s sovereignty, trusting Him for the timing and the means.
But the Lord wasn’t through with Elijah and failure doesn’t mean defeat or an end to our ministry. This is also one of the encouraging elements of this chapter. Before God could use Elijah, however, there were some things Elijah had to learn. Elijah’s failure and discouragement (because of his expectations) were due in part to two things. First there was his view of what it would take to change the nation. His God-given successes had made him take his own importance too seriously (19:4, 9, 14). Furthermore, he thought the primary means of reaching the people was the display of God’s power in dramatic and spectacular ways. He thought if they didn’t respond to that, there was no hope. So, when he failed to see the results he expected, he was shattered. Oh, how we often set ourselves up for discouragement by our pride and our expectations which we fail to rest on the foundation of God’s wisdom." (1 Kings 19, Source Article)
I like how Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary summarizes the verses you have shared:
"Nothing more strongly marks a man for eternal ruin, than a spirit of persecution and enmity to the name and people of God. God will trouble those that trouble his people."
If you're troubled, ya don't keep pressing on in vain -- ya face God again, instead of remaining trapped in "self"... like Elijah did...like you have shared here in your OP.
What I take away from this: Our personal expectations will often disappoint. Keep your joy in the Lord, not in your expectations.
Compare this with 1 Cor 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Hi Ember,The Holy Spirit wasn't poured out in OT times like He is since the Pentecostal outpouring that Jesus promised. Every New Testament believer being born again has the Holy Spirit, and all of the gifts and ministries are due to His working in us.
As with all the callings and giftings of God, it is up to us to explore them and to discover what in fact God wants us to do. If He has called us to any kind of prophetic ministry He will equip us, warning us ahead of time through Jesus' words that "a prophet is not without honour save in his own country"...meaning if you are called to this, prepare for trouble. It does not go down well with the natural man who, as the scripture says, sees it all as foolishness.
Through the process of life circumstances we will find the Lord leading us to a greater level of trust, of Him but not man, and a greater level of preparedness to speak His word no matter the opposition, in spite of the opposition, sometimes BECAUSE of the opposition.
All these things we pass through tend to prepare us in a manner that refines our faith so that we know we cannot and must not give what we do not have.
False prophets therefore, if you want to waste your time worrying about them, would be the ones who want to feed us with lies and heresies and not according to the word of God. They will be the ones who claim to know the time Jesus returns when the Bible clearly says "no man knoweth". They will be more concerned with themselves than with the heritage if the Lord. They will not be willing to suffer for righteousness sake. They will not care desperately about the truth that saves others from destruction but will, as you say, deliver the message that tickles itching ears.
If we love the Lord we are not going to speak out prophecy without being pretty much trembling that it is the Lord Who is speaking, and in that event we need to make sure the message is good, bearing in mind that none of us is perfect and we all can and do occasionally make mistakes.
And that is why we need each other.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Hi Ember,The Holy Spirit wasn't poured out in OT times like He is since the Pentecostal outpouring that Jesus promised. Every New Testament believer being born again has the Holy Spirit, and all of the gifts and ministries are due to His working in us.
As with all the callings and giftings of God, it is up to us to explore them and to discover what in fact God wants us to do. If He has called us to any kind of prophetic ministry He will equip us, warning us ahead of time through Jesus' words that "a prophet is not without honour save in his own country"...meaning if you are called to this, prepare for trouble. It does not go down well with the natural man who, as the scripture says, sees it all as foolishness.
Through the process of life circumstances we will find the Lord leading us to a greater level of trust, of Him but not man, and a greater level of preparedness to speak His word no matter the opposition, in spite of the opposition, sometimes BECAUSE of the opposition.
All these things we pass through tend to prepare us in a manner that refines our faith so that we know we cannot and must not give what we do not have.
False prophets therefore, if you want to waste your time worrying about them, would be the ones who want to feed us with lies and heresies and not according to the word of God. They will be the ones who claim to know the time Jesus returns when the Bible clearly says "no man knoweth". They will be more concerned with themselves than with the heritage if the Lord. They will not be willing to suffer for righteousness sake. They will not care desperately about the truth that saves others from destruction but will, as you say, deliver the message that tickles itching ears.
If we love the Lord we are not going to speak out prophecy without being pretty much trembling that it is the Lord Who is speaking, and in that event we need to make sure the message is good, bearing in mind that none of us is perfect and we all can and do occasionally make mistakes.
And that is why we need each other.
E
I disagree with your post Convallaria and wide epidemic of false prophecies and false prophets today are evidence of the misapplication of the word of God.
Waste my time worrying about false prophets? seriously? after all that Jesus said about deception?
sorry....but this?:
no...not so...it is God who decides regarding the gifts...to 'experiment' is extremely dangerous IMO...where are we told to experiment? I don't find that to be biblical at all
1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP]a[/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP]b[/SUP]11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
really? do you totally disregard the words of Ezekiel then and do you assume that God does not care anymore?
nah...I don't need that kind of disregard...not at all especially having seen how false prophets hurt and even murder people
the gifts are at God's descretion...not yours or anyone elses
I absolutely believe what scripture teaches but it does not teach us to experiment with the things of God
that may sound good? but it is practically useless in practical application
ps...I do not consider myself a prophet, but if I did? I would certainly exercise caution in what I write
I would advise EVERYONE to exercise caution because deception is rampant
Waste my time worrying about false prophets? seriously? after all that Jesus said about deception?
sorry....but this?:
no...not so...it is God who decides regarding the gifts...to 'experiment' is extremely dangerous IMO...where are we told to experiment? I don't find that to be biblical at all
1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP]a[/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP]b[/SUP]11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
really? do you totally disregard the words of Ezekiel then and do you assume that God does not care anymore?
nah...I don't need that kind of disregard...not at all especially having seen how false prophets hurt and even murder people
the gifts are at God's descretion...not yours or anyone elses
I absolutely believe what scripture teaches but it does not teach us to experiment with the things of God
that may sound good? but it is practically useless in practical application
ps...I do not consider myself a prophet, but if I did? I would certainly exercise caution in what I write
I would advise EVERYONE to exercise caution because deception is rampant
E
you won't find them....but you will find plenty whose prophecies do not come true
FYI...there is a prophecy currently going around that the US will be hit by a massive tital wave, resulting from a meteor hitting the ocean by Puerto Rico, the east coast receiving massive destruction and further big damage on the west coast resulting from a huge earthquake.
google it...it is all over the net
this is not something to fool around with...it will or will not happen and what do you suppose will be the end result if it does not happen?
some are predicting that thousands and thousands of Christians will die in these events and it is the judgement of God on a church that no longer actually represents Him
these are not my words...this is all over the net
here is a link to one of the more serious videos (some are prob just copying this guy)
true? not true? I don't know
K
The scriptures I gave were about the end times in general, and they do not say or show that this is for the Tribulation period alone. If we have all these prophets in the Tribulation alone what is the purpose to send the two witnesses then to prophesy ???
We are in the end times now as we have been since Jesus was crucified and the Holy Spirit was given, for we have been in the earthquakes in various places that are coming more and more frequently each year, wars and rumors of wars, and the pestilences that are taking place all over and even famine.
We are in the birth pains of the end times !!!
To demand others to give a name to prove to you prophets exist today instead of listening to the word of God that says they are. Would be the same as the Jews who asked for a sign for proof of who He is !!!
We are in the end times now as we have been since Jesus was crucified and the Holy Spirit was given, for we have been in the earthquakes in various places that are coming more and more frequently each year, wars and rumors of wars, and the pestilences that are taking place all over and even famine.
We are in the birth pains of the end times !!!
To demand others to give a name to prove to you prophets exist today instead of listening to the word of God that says they are. Would be the same as the Jews who asked for a sign for proof of who He is !!!
O
Brother cross,
have Faith brother, our Father never 'starts-stops' His prophecys....
they are a continual unfolding that His flock will at some point recognize....
and take humble gratitude in, for we know that He will never change or
forsake His Word to us.................
it must be all about the ears and hearts and hope.................
have Faith brother, our Father never 'starts-stops' His prophecys....
they are a continual unfolding that His flock will at some point recognize....
and take humble gratitude in, for we know that He will never change or
forsake His Word to us.................
it must be all about the ears and hearts and hope.................
E
I believe there are prophets who do exist today and have been called by God and are truly speaking for Him
I also believe many have become hard of hearing and love is cold. By love, I mean laying down your life...anyone really wanna do that? as scripture states, some might for a good man, but for an evil man? so that he would have another chance to know Christ?
I have had dreams myself and words of knowledge that came true or were true...I firmly believe we are living in time allowed by God and I am not at all sure there will be the destruction that some say there will be on Sept 22...however, that God holds His hand from judgement demonstrates his longsuffering love to us
the other thing I think of is Jesus words that even the very elect would be fooled (deception) if God did not cut the 'times' short
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” (destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD)3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
”4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
currently the entire globe seems to be in turmoil of one sort or another
9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
some believe this has been fulfilled
and then continuing to read, we read about the abomination that causes destruction and here everyone seems to go off in different directions
IMO, prophecy has got to be the thing we would all take most seriously, hence my strenuous objection to the post regarding what I wrote from the prophet Ezekiel
All the offices Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Teacher, and Evangelist can overlap. A person may have more than one office in operation. An Apostle will have all the offices in operation.
(1Cor 12:27-30 [AKJV])
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(1Cor 12:27-30 [AKJV])
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
We are speaking of a Godly fear. We fear to speak the wrong words when delivering the message. The desire of the Prophet is to please God and give God's Word as directly as can be given with out distorting the message.
Prophets also fear for others because they understand the Holiness of God. Prophets are always concerned with injustice and speak out against it. They warn those who commit injustice that righteous judgement catch up with them.
Prophets also fear for others because they understand the Holiness of God. Prophets are always concerned with injustice and speak out against it. They warn those who commit injustice that righteous judgement catch up with them.