why would millennial kingdom not be literal?
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Hmm, Revelation is symbolic book (no, there will not be literal animal dragon with 7 heads), these symbols can mean either physical or spiritual realities, its quite impossible to be sure before it will happen. Or maybe it already happened in first centuries and we just look for another explanation, more current to us.
But I was talking more about the OT and prophecies and their fulfillment on Jesus or in the New Testament. Some seem to think that if something is not fulfilled physically, it must be something "less".
You are right that many people think that symbolic = spiritual = metaphorical, which is wrong.
But I was talking more about the OT and prophecies and their fulfillment on Jesus or in the New Testament. Some seem to think that if something is not fulfilled physically, it must be something "less".
You are right that many people think that symbolic = spiritual = metaphorical, which is wrong.
Understanding of literal interpretation going backwards: 3 days of rebuilding His temple, beginning Thursday evening in the Garden of Gethsemane: our sin placed on Him, "This is the hour and power of darkness. This first day of the suffering of death (separation from the Father) Jesus is not separated from His body while suffering the hell and destruction of the religious leaders. Most people associate hell with physical death when its actually separation from God. This first day of his death represents the 1,000 years Reign where those who suffered with Him shall rule with Him. Friday afternoon Jesus died physically: just as the days of creation are the evening and the morning, the first day. Friday evening to Saturday morning the second day, Saturday evening to Sunday morning of the third day. About the going backwards, Acts 1:11 "Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven." 2 days separated from His body (the Church). 2peter 3:8 "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years." From the year 33 to 2033, approximately. He returns to rule for a thousand years with those who suffered with Him. 2 more verses to confirm what I shared: Hosea 6:2, Luke 13:32. We also will have opportunity to suffer with Him during the time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again. 34 years ago the Lord told me: Behold I AM with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again. Later when I spoke this to someone else, the Lord added: For it is coming upon all people as a testimony against them. I believe this was to clear up that it wasn't just my time of trouble. There is much more I could say, of others getting dreams and visions of the final battle, The final quest by Rick Joinder, you can download as PDF file. As many believers unable to digest this as will be able, referring to the time of trouble as well. Matthew 24:9.
Greeting trofimus,
The dragon with seven heads and ten horns, is obvious symbolism, as well as the woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. That does not mean that everything in Revelation is symbolic. It just means that the one you chose to use as an example is symbolic.
Regarding the dragon, we are told right in Revelation what the literal meaning behind the symbolism for those seven heads and ten horns.
Be assured that all of those events of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will result in exactly what is written.
When reading Revelation, if the literal sense makes good sense, then seek any other sense.
The dragon with seven heads and ten horns, is obvious symbolism, as well as the woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. That does not mean that everything in Revelation is symbolic. It just means that the one you chose to use as an example is symbolic.
Regarding the dragon, we are told right in Revelation what the literal meaning behind the symbolism for those seven heads and ten horns.
Be assured that all of those events of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will result in exactly what is written.
When reading Revelation, if the literal sense makes good sense, then seek any other sense.
You are misunderstanding him. He is saying the word is spirit because God is Spirit. A metaphor is...rhetoric, comparing unalike things. A metaphor is like... he is a lamb. Similes are more like Jesus parables were (the kingdom of heaven is like...).
But to say the word is Spirit is not to say it is metaphor or simile. But when talking about a thing of the spirit, we USE similes, because you have to use something seen to describe something unseen.
Maybe I have only confused the issue. The spirit of a matter is not a metaphor or simile, but a metaphor or simile must be used to convey it.
But to say the word is Spirit is not to say it is metaphor or simile. But when talking about a thing of the spirit, we USE similes, because you have to use something seen to describe something unseen.
Maybe I have only confused the issue. The spirit of a matter is not a metaphor or simile, but a metaphor or simile must be used to convey it.
Ah...I'm very dense. I have only now seen why trofimus must make the 1000 years to be symbolic of a long period of time. Its the only way that it can fit his belief that we are in that time.
It doesn't answer as to why the description of that time does not fit with what is going on now. For instance, when someone dies at 100, we do not lament that they died young!
It doesn't answer as to why the description of that time does not fit with what is going on now. For instance, when someone dies at 100, we do not lament that they died young!
There WAS physical, literal fulfillment of the OT prophecies. There was just not yet fulfillment of ALL of the them, mainly the ones they wanted to see fulfilled.
Their mistake was not that they looked for Messiah to literally fulfill prophecy. Their mistake was that they could not see He would fulfill it in TWO comings.
I believe we are making the EXACT same mistake and that God will cause it to repeat and once again there will be two comings - one in secret to take the bride and the other when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, which means they would be resurrected at that time, because those who pierced Him are dead.
Their mistake was not that they looked for Messiah to literally fulfill prophecy. Their mistake was that they could not see He would fulfill it in TWO comings.
I believe we are making the EXACT same mistake and that God will cause it to repeat and once again there will be two comings - one in secret to take the bride and the other when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, which means they would be resurrected at that time, because those who pierced Him are dead.
Revelation 20:1-10 says, "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
The duration of this kingdom will be one millennium. This passage makes this very clear by telling us not just once but six times that it will last one thousand years.
The duration of this kingdom will be one millennium. This passage makes this very clear by telling us not just once but six times that it will last one thousand years.
Dispensationalist don't follow their own literal interpretation as they claim. John sets the tone (context) for the book of Revelation:
7 [FONT="]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him[/FONT][FONT="] (Rev. 1:7).[/FONT]
The literal interpretation here is that the Jews in collusion with the Roman Gov. actually and literally pierced and hung Jesus on the cross and they are the ones who will actually see Him coming with clouds. Revelation is about judgement upon earthly Israel and the birth of the spiritual kingdom, which I would call spiritual or true Israel. It may or may not give any indication of detailed future events relating our time or beyond, to say it does is simply speculation.
The dispensational camp will say that we all pierced Christ, which maybe true spiritually, because the sins of the humanity put Him there. It is certainly not true that all people were literally in agreement nor literally pierce His flesh.
The Millenium is about Christ reign on earth and He has been reigning from above since His 1st coming. And it is forever (Rev. 1:6).
[FONT="]
[/FONT][h=1]Psalm 2New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Messiah’s Triumph and Kingdom[/h][FONT="][FONT="]2 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest [c] He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][h=1]Psalm 110New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]Announcement of the Messiah’s Reign[/h][h=4]A Psalm of David.[/h][FONT="][FONT="]110 The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies![/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
7 [FONT="]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him[/FONT][FONT="] (Rev. 1:7).[/FONT]
The literal interpretation here is that the Jews in collusion with the Roman Gov. actually and literally pierced and hung Jesus on the cross and they are the ones who will actually see Him coming with clouds. Revelation is about judgement upon earthly Israel and the birth of the spiritual kingdom, which I would call spiritual or true Israel. It may or may not give any indication of detailed future events relating our time or beyond, to say it does is simply speculation.
The dispensational camp will say that we all pierced Christ, which maybe true spiritually, because the sins of the humanity put Him there. It is certainly not true that all people were literally in agreement nor literally pierce His flesh.
The Millenium is about Christ reign on earth and He has been reigning from above since His 1st coming. And it is forever (Rev. 1:6).
[FONT="]
[/FONT][h=1]Psalm 2New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Messiah’s Triumph and Kingdom[/h][FONT="][FONT="]2 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest [c] He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][h=1]Psalm 110New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]Announcement of the Messiah’s Reign[/h][h=4]A Psalm of David.[/h][FONT="][FONT="]110 The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies![/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.[/FONT]
[/FONT]