Will faith-healers step out in faith and heal Corona virus victims? I doubt it.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#21
A bit on the extreme end, but there are people who do not go to doctors because they believe they will get healed.
My father was a physician for over 50 years. He used the power of suggestion and positive thinking a lot in his practice. He used a lot of encouragement. If you tell people they are going to recover and get better a lot of them do. Doctors help who they are able to help. The pastors help the people they are able to help. Everyone is doing what they can to help as many people as they can.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#22
I don't recall of any unbelievers being healed in Scripture, do you?
Someone has to have faith. It could be friends, a parent or a boss. The person getting healed is not always the one to pray the prayer of faith. It is nice to have the power of God working in our life so we can help the people we want to help.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,938
3,352
113
#23
No, but if Christians do not get healed, is it because of unbelief? I have heard pastors say, if you believe, you WILL get healed of your malady.
Yes, and if you don't get healed, some of the same will accuse you of not having enough faith..
No, the greater faith says ''Lord Jesus, please heal nevertheless not my will but thine be done.'
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,938
3,352
113
#24
Someone has to have faith. It could be friends, a parent or a boss. The person getting healed is not always the one to pray the prayer of faith. It is nice to have the power of God working in our life so we can help the people we want to help.
Yes Jesus heals, not us...not even our faith.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#25
Yes Jesus heals, not us...not even our faith.
Our faith is little more than positive thinking. God's faith is a gift and a fruit that He produces in us. We receive a lot more from God then what Science is able to give us. In fact God has the answer for every question and the solution for very every problem. Science can not come near to that. Science creates more problems than they solve and has more questions then they have answers.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,938
3,352
113
#27
Luke 22:50–51

If you are a servant of the Jewish High Priest Caiaphas who participated in the arrest of Jesus as written in the four gospels, is it reasonable to assume you are not a believer of Jesus?
It may be reasonable to assume that (and assume it would be), but equally it would be unreasonable to assume that he was a denier. Many hadn't heard enough about Jesus to make a decision either way.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#28
It may be reasonable to assume that (and assume it would be), but equally it would be unreasonable to assume that he was a denier. Many hadn't heard enough about Jesus to make a decision either way.
So you have an example of someone, who is very likely an unbeliever of Jesus, getting healed by Jesus.

I think that sums up the difference between the sign gift of healing, which was present in the 4 gospels and Acts, and the healing that we see today.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,614
3,895
113
#29
There are some charlatans about, and perhaps some well-meaning believers who are mistaken in some of their beliefs and actions.
But the OP gives me the creeps. :sneaky: He/she seems to delight in mocking God, The Holy Spirit.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#30
@UnitedWithChrist & @Angela53510

When I read the Bible, I try to look at what all was transpiring as these great men of God wrote as they were inspired to write these verses we now cherish. Look at James for instance. If you read through the book of Acts, we can see all the miracles that took place. Paul laying hands on ppl and they received the Holy Spirit[Acts 19]. Peter bringing Dorcas(Tabitha) back to life[Acts 9]. Paul bringing Euthychus back to life[Acts 20]. An angel waking Peter up and the chains falling from him and the gate swinging open as he ran for his freedom[Acts 12]. Paul praying over some cloths and ppl being healed[Acts 19].

All of these miracles occurred at the time of James’ writing. Let’s look at a passage...

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much[James 5].

Look at what I bolded and underlined and how James carefully wrote it. It said that these who call for prayer will be restored to health, the Lord will raise them up, and if they committed sins, they would be forgiven. I have been in many meetings where someone has came forth to be prayed over, yet they eventually died. I have heard of many other stories with the same end result. The way James wrote it, this healing was guaranteed to take place. Why? It was during this time of miracles that we no longer see taking place.

I am not against praying for the sick, but this laying on of hands, imo, was for the Apolstolic age. I dont see the other miracles that took place in Acts going on today, do you?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,938
3,352
113
#31
So you have an example of someone, who is very likely an unbeliever of Jesus, getting healed by Jesus.
No I don't. That was my original challenge suspecting there aren't any. Someone mentioned this passage which may come closest...
John 18:10 KJVS
[10] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

Of course Luke being a physician is the only Gospel writer mentioning the healing of the ear...
Luke 22:51 KJVS
[51] And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,938
3,352
113
#32
Someone has to have faith. It could be friends, a parent or a boss. The person getting healed is not always the one to pray the prayer of faith. It is nice to have the power of God working in our life so we can help the people we want to help.
Those healings by the requests of others usually happen due to 'little' faith not 'no' faith or a denial of faith.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#33
There are some charlatans about, and perhaps some well-meaning believers who are mistaken in some of their beliefs and actions.
But the OP gives me the creeps. :sneaky: He/she seems to delight in mocking God, The Holy Spirit.

you have it backwards

he delights in mocking the other members here and thinks he has a hotline to the Holy Spirit

met his kind before...it's sadly not all that rare

he is deceived, of course, don't let him get to you

hugs
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#34
@UnitedWithChrist & @Angela53510

When I read the Bible, I try to look at what all was transpiring as these great men of God wrote as they were inspired to write these verses we now cherish. Look at James for instance. If you read through the book of Acts, we can see all the miracles that took place. Paul laying hands on ppl and they received the Holy Spirit[Acts 19]. Peter bringing Dorcas(Tabitha) back to life[Acts 9]. Paul bringing Euthychus back to life[Acts 20]. An angel waking Peter up and the chains falling from him and the gate swinging open as he ran for his freedom[Acts 12]. Paul praying over some cloths and ppl being healed[Acts 19].

All of these miracles occurred at the time of James’ writing. Let’s look at a passage...

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much[James 5].

Look at what I bolded and underlined and how James carefully wrote it. It said that these who call for prayer will be restored to health, the Lord will raise them up, and if they committed sins, they would be forgiven. I have been in many meetings where someone has came forth to be prayed over, yet they eventually died. I have heard of many other stories with the same end result. The way James wrote it, this healing was guaranteed to take place. Why? It was during this time of miracles that we no longer see taking place.

I am not against praying for the sick, but this laying on of hands, imo, was for the Apolstolic age. I dont see the other miracles that took place in Acts going on today, do you?
I believe healings still take place in the Church, according to God's sovereign will.

However, I don' t think, in general, that He is a showman.

I noticed a pic by CMA missionaries that claimed this young lady was healed. It was apparent to see that her body was all twisted up, even after their alleged healing, but they claimed a healing because she could walk better after the alleged healing.

So, I think the vast majority of claims are false.

Regarding James' teaching, I notice that he focuses on bringing the sick to the elders. He doesn't recommend bringing them to a designated, single healer. I think that the word is plural, because this makes sure God receives all the glory. Neither elder can make fantastic claims of being a healer.

And, it does seem to me like charismatics are all about self-glory. I have talked to charismatics who brag about how many people they brought to Christ. One was a prisoner in the jail I ministered in. It was obvious to me that he lacked humility but he had been coached by a charismatic chaplain who told him that he was going to be someone great, and that he was a prodigy. Well, the guy ended up going off the deep end about as soon as he got out.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#35
We can pray for people to be healed but divine health is better. This is why the world gives people vaccines so they do not get sick in the first place. "He said, "If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you." (Exodus 15:26) Notice how we have to follow the commands and decrees to be healthy. This virus we are told comes from one person selling bats for people to eat in China. A bat is one of the thing we are prohibited from eating.
I don't think the source of the virus has been positively identified.

That is one of the possible sources that is being reported, though.

Early AIDS researchers claimed that men had sex with monkeys, too....I think that theory was dismissed, though.

By the way, the NT, particularly Acts 10, indicates that all animals have been cleansed in terms of food. I realize Judaizers deny this, as I did, and I know their arguments for continuance of clean meat laws. However, I don't find them credible. If their view is correct, God certainly left the possibility open for misinterpretation. God knows the future exhaustively (Is 46:9-10) so I do not think that God left this open for misinterpretation.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#36
I was about to reply with "If all of us believe that its God's will that everyone be saved, why aren't any of us becoming mini Billy Grahams and conduct evangelism crusades every day?"

But then I remembered that you subscribed to limited atonement. ;)
I believe that Christians should be evangelizing as it is appropriate. If they sense an opportunity is open to discuss the gospel, they should do it. As I have said, I did jail ministry for over 2 years, and I talked to over 300 people about Christianity.

It is a myth that Reformed people are not evangelistic.

However, synergists make it hard because they are in key positions already, and they DON'T want Reformed theology taught.

They want their milquetoast gospel taught, which doesn't focus on the reality that God's wrath and condemnation dwell upon the sinner until he places his faith in Christ. They have half a cross. They don't focus on the wrath and condemnation part, but only on the grace part. This leaves people confused because they wonder what they need saved from.

By the way, I was a synergist for a long time, as a member of the cult, and as a member of Calvary Chapel and Christian and Missionary Alliance congregations. I found the teaching to be abysmal for the most part, although Skip Heitzig was relatively decent.

I'm not really totally cutting down Calvary Chapel, though..at least they attempted to practice their understanding of tongues in an orderly manner, which is more reasonable than the practices of Pentecostals and many charismatics.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,342
2,529
113
#37
Will faith healers step out in faith and heal Corona virus victims? I doubt it.

Why isn't Todd White, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and Bill Johnson hopping on jets, and going to the nations which are most afflicted to heal them?

The article below makes me wonder.

California mega-church cancels its ‘faith healing’ hospital visits, citing coronavirus

BY RYAN SABALOW

A prominent Northern California mega-church whose members believe their prayers heal the sick and raise the dead is advising the faithful to wash their hands, urging those who feel sick to stay home, canceling missionary trips and advising its faith healers to stay away from local hospitals.

Bethel Church leaders say they’re in close contact with local health officials, but they’re not yet canceling services for the 6,300 people who attend services each week in Redding, one of the largest regular gatherings in far Northern California.

“Through email communications, signage, and church announcements, we are actively encouraging health practices and precautions to our whole community,” Aaron Tesauro, a church spokesman, said in an email. “We believe that wisdom, modern medicine, and faith are meant to work together, and express the value for each in the pursuit of continued health and healing.”

Bethel is one of the north state’s largest institutions. Some 2,400 students from around the globe are enrolled at the Redding church’s School of Supernatural Ministry. The church has around 9,100 other members in Redding, Tesauro said.

Bethel faithful are well known in Redding for approaching strangers and offering to touch them and to pray away their ailments including at local healthcare centers — a practice that is now at odds with public health officials’ campaign to limit the spread of the novel coronavirus.

Health officials advise practice “social distancing measures” such as keeping at least six feet of space between people in public settings.

One Redding woman told The Sacramento Bee on Saturday that on Jan. 31, she was approached by two Bethel students in the emergency room at Mercy Medical Center in Redding. The pair said “they would pray over the people there and put Jesus in their hearts and this would heal us all and we didn’t need to stay at the ER and could go home,” the woman said in a text message. She asked not to be identified to protect her family’s privacy.

She said she filed a complaint with the hospital after one of the students touched her 5-year-old daughter without permission. Mercy didn’t return a message seeking comment.

Tesauro said that while students regularly visit hospitals to offer healing services, church leadership is now advising against it.

“Though we believe in a God who actively heals today, students are not being encouraged to visit healthcare settings at this time, and moreover, are taught that even under normal circumstances, they must receive permission from both the facility and the individual before engaging in prayer,” Tesauro said in the email.

Kerri Schuette, a spokeswoman for Shasta County’s Health and Human Services Agency, responded cautiously when asked what someone should do if approached by a stranger seeking to faith heal them.

“I would say that having a healthy barrier between yourself and other people is a good way to protect yourself from any of the diseases that are circulating right now,” she said.

RELIGIOUS SKEPTICS RESPOND

For skeptics of faith healing, Bethel probably would have been criticized no matter what it did in response to the virus.

As it was, there was no shortage of schadenfreude that a church known for claiming to have healed everything from brain tumors to deafness is now telling people to wash their hands to keep disease at bay.

“It’s clear that when it comes to something really serious like coronavirus, their actions speak louder than their words,” said Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic magazine and a professor at Chapman University in Southern California. “So, God is omniscient and omnipotent and can cure diseases if he wants, but just in case: wash your hands!”

Bill Johnson, the church’s founder, says on his website that not everyone who wants to be healed will be.

“Many visit Redding weekly, hoping that God will touch them. I am happy to report that many leave well and whole,” Johnson wrote. “But many others leave in the same condition in which they came. I refuse to blame God for this, as though He has a purpose in their disease. While Jesus did not heal everyone alive in His time, He did heal everyone who came to Him. His is the only standard worth following.”

Tesauro, the church spokesman, said the Bethel faithful believe in the healing power of prayer, but God also wants believers to practice common sense. “Healing happens, but it’s foolish to take risks,” he said in an interview.

Bethel is among a group of “charismatic” Pentecostal Christian churches whose beliefs are controversial among evangelicals. During religious functions at Bethel, church members reportedly speak in tongues and members claim gold dust and angel feathers appear out of the air.

Late last year, hundreds of church members gathered in an attempt to resurrect a 2-year-old named Olive Heiligenthal, hours after the toddler had stopped breathing and died on Dec. 14. Church members gathered to sing, “Come alive/ Come alive/ Come alive, dry bones/ Awake, arise/ Inhale the light.” Thousands of people posted on Instagram with the hashtag #WakeUpOlive.

In October 2008, a Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry student moved to Washington and started a “dead-raising team” that worked with members of the local fire department to pray over bodies found on emergency calls, according to the Redding Record Searchlight.

Johnson’s church produces a popular preaching subscription streaming service called Bethel.TV, and it sells products including apparel and books.

Bethel is perhaps best known internationally for its Christian music. Justin Bieber is a fan. The Bethel track “No Longer Slaves” was one the top three songs on his iPod playlist, according to a 2017 Buzzfeed News article. The song’s YouTube video has been played 115 million times.

LAWSUIT OVER CLIFF FALL

Bethel’s belief in the power of resurrection at one point factored into a local attempted murder investigation.

In 2010, a Redding man claimed in a lawsuit that he became paralyzed after he was either pushed or allowed to fall off a cliff above the Sacramento River by two members of the School of Supernatural Ministry after a night of drinking together, the Record Searchlight reported.

Rather than call authorities, the suit alleged the two students, who believed he had died, attempted to reach him so they could pray him back to life. After spending hours unsuccessfully trying to ford the river and push through blackberry bushes, they eventually notified authorities, who found the unconscious man and took him to a local hospital.

For a time, Redding police investigated the incident as a possible attempted murder, but no charges were filed.

Bethel Church has deeply ingrained itself into Redding’s political scene.

In 2011, the city was nearly forced to close its dilapidated Civic Center from a lack of funds. Bethel founded a nonprofit that now manages the facility. The building is still owned by the city, and the church says the nonprofit is an independent entity from the church.

The Civic Center receives $750,000 a year from the church, which uses it for its School of Supernatural Ministry. The building also is featured prominently on the church’s website.

https://www.sacbee.com/entertainmen...h9YZVQc8PRw87IAywrLwRJWsV42KExgl5di6aWLdofNzc
Jesus, will you please go by the pool of Bethesda's and heal all the sick?

"I am not in your mind,I am outta your mind"

So he went to the pool and left them all sick but one man.
Jesus was told to go heal Lazarus.
He let him die. "Wow Jesus,just wow,you let him die."

Your error is because of your mind.
You can not process the things of the spirit.

Psssst;
Only Jesus heals. Not man.
You got it backwards
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#38
Jesus, will you please go by the pool of Bethesda's and heal all the sick?

"I am not in your mind,I am outta your mind"

So he went to the pool and left them all sick but one man.
Jesus was told to go heal Lazarus.
He let him die. "Wow Jesus,just wow,you let him die."

Your error is because of your mind.
You can not process the things of the spirit.

Psssst;
Only Jesus heals. Not man.
You got it backwards

So, your remark is this: Jesus was told to go heal Lazarus.

Where do you see that in the narrative?

I don't see it anywhere in the narrative.

Now, I don't think Jesus operated independent of YHVH, but it doesn't say that in the text. Where does it say that Jesus was told by someone else that he was only to heal Lazarus.

By the way, I don't understand why you are attacking me on this matter. I simply discussed with Sackclothes and Ashes that I still believe God heals according to his sovereign will. I don't believe that the aforementioned men (and many more of the Health Wealth Prosperity gospel or charismatic/Pentecostal ilk) are used by God to do healings. However, I do acknowledge that God heals on occasion, according to his sovereign will.

But, keep right on attacking. Your words don't even make sense to me most of the time. You are incoherent. You can blame it on heightened spirituality, but the reality is that you are incoherent. I can understand the words of other charismatics/Pentecostals even though I don't agree with them, so the issue is not a lack of spirituality but it is a lack of coherency. I generally place such people on ignore eventually because it's easy to see they have a burr under their saddle and it's not productive to discuss anything with them.

However, I notice you haven't answered my question about tongues. I will consider it a given that tongues are the same thing as you claim they are, for the sake of this conversation. Does your fellowship practice them in a biblical manner? In other words, does only one person speak in tongues, while one or more interprets, or do they all blabber in tongues at the same time?

You see, that would be an issue. That basically shows that Pentecostals/charismatics don't care much about obedience to God if they are failing to show respect for Paul's commands in this regard. And, from what I've heard, this is the NORM. A bunch of people are blabbering in tongues, all at the same time, instead of one speaker, followed by one or more interpreters.

And, if they aren't obedient to Scripture, knowing the Bible teaches this, then why should we listen to them on any matter regarding tongues? That's how it plays out with me.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,342
2,529
113
#39
I believe that Christians should be evangelizing as it is appropriate. If they sense an opportunity is open to discuss the gospel, they should do it. As I have said, I did jail ministry for over 2 years, and I talked to over 300 people about Christianity.

It is a myth that Reformed people are not evangelistic.

However, synergists make it hard because they are in key positions already, and they DON'T want Reformed theology taught.

They want their milquetoast gospel taught, which doesn't focus on the reality that God's wrath and condemnation dwell upon the sinner until he places his faith in Christ. They have half a cross. They don't focus on the wrath and condemnation part, but only on the grace part. This leaves people confused because they wonder what they need saved from.

By the way, I was a synergist for a long time, as a member of the cult, and as a member of Calvary Chapel and Christian and Missionary Alliance congregations. I found the teaching to be abysmal for the most part, although Skip Heitzig was relatively decent.

I'm not really totally cutting down Calvary Chapel, though..at least they attempted to practice their understanding of tongues in an orderly manner, which is more reasonable than the practices of Pentecostals and many charismatics.
One of the reasons the religious leaders did not recognize Jesus was they had no clue of the things of the spirit.
They were mental,legal robots closed off to the spirit.
The other was they processed Jesus through powerless prisms.
They attacked him in the realm of his power.

Ironically it was his power that authenticated him and his church.

"These signs SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE...."

Thank you Jesus that there is no virus or disease you can not heal.
Thank you for giving us power to defeat Corona devils with ease.
Mental anti power believers- "oh no corona demon is too powerful. Medicine can't stop it".
Cue mocking spirit
"Why don't those charismatic sleazeballs step up and heal every one of them?"

Because we don't heal and never did.
The lightening comes from the throne.
We know how to grab it and use it to decapitate the demon hoards that are eating your ever loving lunch while you trash Jesus's body.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#40
I believe healings still take place in the Church, according to God's sovereign will.

However, I don' t think, in general, that He is a showman.

I noticed a pic by CMA missionaries that claimed this young lady was healed. It was apparent to see that her body was all twisted up, even after their alleged healing, but they claimed a healing because she could walk better after the alleged healing.

So, I think the vast majority of claims are false.

Regarding James' teaching, I notice that he focuses on bringing the sick to the elders. He doesn't recommend bringing them to a designated, single healer. I think that the word is plural, because this makes sure God receives all the glory. Neither elder can make fantastic claims of being a healer.

And, it does seem to me like charismatics are all about self-glory. I have talked to charismatics who brag about how many people they brought to Christ. One was a prisoner in the jail I ministered in. It was obvious to me that he lacked humility but he had been coached by a charismatic chaplain who told him that he was going to be someone great, and that he was a prodigy. Well, the guy ended up going off the deep end about as soon as he got out.
Oh, I agree that healings still take place. My point was that in the James passage, the language, at least to me, guarantees their healing.