Will Some Christians Go To Hell?

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FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,118
110
63
#41
Kind of ironic. When Jesus speaks of "lukewarm" He is speaking about those who are unable to rely on what He has done and instead try and "keep saved" by doing good works. You can either obey God and rely on His righteousness or you can defy Him and try and work your way to righteousness, you CAN NOT do both.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

If we read the chapter we can see this....


Revelation 3
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and thatthe shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



 
Mar 10, 2013
329
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#42
Here we go again with a salvation is not eternal, salvation can be lost, salvation can be given back, God is not strong enough to keep you, God needs your help in keeping you saved. Round, and round and round we go again.
Those who support such false teaching will never accept the truth. My concern is if they are really saved. I pray they are.
This thread should be ignored. I will.

It is not about God is not strong enough to keep you. It is about, God is love. Without the ability to disobey God, We can not love God for "love for God is obedience to his commands" We can not obey if we have no choice. Even the angels had a choice. All God's creation will always have the same choice. Obey God or disobey God. Without that choice we can not love. But dont listen to me. Listen to the word. The verses are clear enough. Or even better yet, serve me in love. I challenge you to explain the meaning of these verses to me since obviously i do not understand them.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,

[SUP]19 [/SUP]My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, [SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Those verses are all about people who had salvation. Who as God states he desires, "For God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" Show me how these verses are not speaking of saved people??? Once saved always saved is a calvenist lie. It is satan taking hold of you and making you believe something that is not truth. God's word is truth. Test everything against his word. Teach me how i am wrong. Serve me unto God. Isnt that your job? its my job. It is my job to serve you. I will serve you anyway you ask of me. It is written, serve one another in love.

There are five different spiritual conditions shown in scripture as far as maturity goes. We know about maturity Paul talked about it. You should be eating meat yet you are still nursing.

1. The unbeliever who cant receive salvation. This unbeliever has grieved the holy spirit. He loves wickedness and hates righteousness. There is no hope for him. REmember the scepter in Jesus hand, the symbol of his authority, it has two sides, the front is love of righteousness, the reverse is hatred of wickedness. This is a person who worships Satan. he stands directly opposed to God. I didnt quote these verses if you want to know them i will hand them to you.
2. The newborn in Christ. thats Hebrews 10:26 quoted above. he can grieve the holy spirit by deliberately sinning after he has, "recieved the knowledge of the truth" This saved believer has to deliberately sin to lose his salvation.
3this is a believer who is between birth and enlightenment. I spent ten years here myself. This believer can lose his salvation grieving the holy spirit by, "being entangled again in it(the world) and overcome. thats 2 Peter 2:
4, The enlightened believer, who can lose his salvation forever grieving the holy spirit by, "falling away" thats chapter six in Hebrews.
5. This is about Angels. They are obviously believers, they too can lose their position however. We KNOW THIS, How? ONE SINGLE ACT of disobedience.

All of these verses are all talking about this verse
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all
sins
and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal
sin
. and this one from, Matthew 12:32[SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this isnt clear enough consider this, God is clearly showing us, Anyone, Any created being that we know of who can have eternal live with God can choose not to. They can lose salvation by grieving the holy spirit, and this sin can not be forgiven because it is a sin without end. Every other sin a man can repent. There is no repentance for a sin that does not end because you have to stop sinning to repent. Oh to be sure, we will all sin again, that is not what i mean. I mean that this sin is continual non stop eternal. I have cussed. That is sin. I did that tonight! I am not cussing right now. I just confessed that sin. God is faithful and just to forgive my sin and purify me from all unrighteousness. I can do that again tomorow, I will not do it on purpose. I do not want to do it. I agree with the law that it is good, it is no longer i who sin but sin which indwells me. Look at the perfection across the five items i listed. The unsaved, they have to be hardcore to grieve the holy spirit. The newborn has to deliberately sin. The teenager has to allow himself to be choked by the world, and the enlightened believer, Who I AM Thanks be to GOD, can grieve the holy spirit by merely falling away. Angels? Its even easier for them, and so it will be for us when we are with God as the angels are now. We all Know God created Satan. He was a glorious angel of light. He was jealous, (remember sin begins with wicked desire?) and wanted glory for himself. He chose to disobey God and deceived Eve. Other angels followed him. They were cast out of heaven. God is just. He does not hold us accountable for things we do not know. He does hold us accountable for everything we do know. My accountability to God is massive. My cup overflows. God has been giving me spiritual riches for fifteen years now since i was first enlightened. I recieved riches from God for ten years before that from the time I first turned my life over to a God I did not even believe in. God taught me his word as I grew up in a Catholic church. I heard his word over and over again week after week and i thought to myself, why do my parents believe this nonsense. people can not be raised from the dead. Nobody can walk on water. I did not believe. I did not have any faith. I was not saved. I was an unbeliever. However, I loved good and hated evil. The truth is, I was always saved. I will always be saved. I am saved. Because of the last line, "in my heart I loved good and hated evil" I tell you the truth, everyone who loves good and hates evil will be saved. this is the precise nature of the scepter in Jesus right hand. Even those who are not called before the king will be touched by this scepter and spared. (if you dont believe that you need to read RUTH) The scepter will only touch those who love righteousness and hate wickedness. The scepter, the ball on top of it is a beating heart. It is not a round shaped heart like teenage girls dot their I's with. It is the same shape and form as a mans heart. This heart loves God and all good things, it loves righteousness and hates wickedness. If you think of magnetism, certain poles attract, and certain poles repel. The power of this scepter is like that. This heart must touch, every heart that is the same as itself and it can not touch any heart that opposes itself. In the case of the Scepter, LIKE hearts attract. Opposite hearts REPEL. Magnetism is of this world. Just like everything else of this world it is the opposite of all things of God. In magnetism like poles repel and dissimilar poles attract. With God, Like hearts attract, in fact no power can keep them apart, and dissimilar poles repel and no power, not even God's can force them together.

 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,118
110
63
#43
I don't think grieving the Holy Spirit means what you think it means.
 
Mar 10, 2013
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#44
No one who has by faith trusted into the correct message of salvation will lose it and make hell....the verbiage, Greek verb tense, context all teach eternal salvation and life that cannot be lost. A child of God by faith is dealt with as SON OR DAUGHTER and whipped or loses reward for sin or unfaithfulness....not cast away!

Those who teach differently deny context, verb tense and serve a weak false god incapable of keeping HIS PROMISES...

Jesus, MY GOD will never leave me nor forsake me and will finish and complete the good work of faith HE BEGAN IN ME.

Ok brother. If this is the case, then I am blind and I need your help to show me the truth. Will you serve me in love? will you speak the truth to me in love? Does your heart burn to do this for everyone? Isnt this our commission? I need help understanding these verses. In fact, Lets just start with one passage please? I am willing to be wrong. God knows I am wrong continually as he is the one who is always correcting me. This passage is from Hebrews 6. Please review the chapter for context before you reply. I obviously do not understand. I want to. I long to. I love God. I love his word.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Who is the author writing about? Is he writing about a non believer? I think this passage is about me. I think it is written about a mature enlightened Christian who has spent time with the Holy spirit flowing through them. I testify about God that, HE has enlightened me, AND, put the heavenly gift in my mouth, and poured his spirit out on me. I have tasted the goodness of the word and the powers of the coming age. Not only this but, I have, I am, and God continues. I have been experiencing all of these things for fifteen years when i was first enlightened. I am still experiencing them now. I have no doubt, God will continue to give me all of this and more. The more I try to give away all the riches He has abounded upon me, the more he gives to me. The only part of that verse that doesnt fit me is, "and has fallen away." You see my words here prove, I have not fallen away. Praise God. A person who has fallen away is not working hard to serve others in love. HELP ME BROTHER. OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING. It is so simple. I am wrong or you are wrong. I am willing to be wrong just please show me how this verse is not about a saved believer actually a mature saved believer like myself.

Your servant in Christ
JOEY
 
Mar 11, 2018
19
1
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#45
Hi All,

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Comment: “Christ the firstfruits pertain to the church which is one with him. All will be saved afterwards. Below are excellent links on the subject.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/creations-jubilee/

http://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/...of-the-divine-law/chapter-4-the-lake-of-fire/
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,873
403
83
#46
Ok brother. If this is the case, then I am blind and I need your help to show me the truth. Will you serve me in love? will you speak the truth to me in love? Does your heart burn to do this for everyone? Isnt this our commission? I need help understanding these verses. In fact, Lets just start with one passage please? I am willing to be wrong. God knows I am wrong continually as he is the one who is always correcting me. This passage is from Hebrews 6. Please review the chapter for context before you reply. I obviously do not understand. I want to. I long to. I love God. I love his word.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age[SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Who is the author writing about? Is he writing about a non believer? I think this passage is about me. I think it is written about a mature enlightened Christian who has spent time with the Holy spirit flowing through them. I testify about God that, HE has enlightened me, AND, put the heavenly gift in my mouth, and poured his spirit out on me. I have tasted the goodness of the word and the powers of the coming age. Not only this but, I have, I am, and God continues. I have been experiencing all of these things for fifteen years when i was first enlightened. I am still experiencing them now. I have no doubt, God will continue to give me all of this and more. The more I try to give away all the riches He has abounded upon me, the more he gives to me. The only part of that verse that doesnt fit me is, "and has fallen away." You see my words here prove, I have not fallen away. Praise God. A person who has fallen away is not working hard to serve others in love. HELP ME BROTHER. OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING. It is so simple. I am wrong or you are wrong. I am willing to be wrong just please show me how this verse is not about a saved believer actually a mature saved believer like myself.

Your servant in Christ
JOEY
I believe you are earnest and NOT being sarcastic. You ask very valid and honest questions. There are undoubtedly several difficult passages in Scripture that seem to suggest a born again child of God can lose Salvation, and ultimately tossed into eternal hell.

However there are MANY more, clear, concise, passages that certify that once God has created a NEW heart, and made us a NEW creation, a Child of His own, that He will, as DC pointed out, do what is necessary to draw his true Children back to Him. And that our Father, Abba, will NEVER cast His Children into hell.

I would ask myself. Do I WANT it to be true? Is my position on this so hardened that I can't accept that God will never let me fall to the point of no return? Do I really trust that He has me in His Hands?

In any case, prayer that the Lord through the Holy Spirit, will reveal His Truth in this matter is paramount, because people can only give reason for their hope to you, but HE CAN GIVE REVELATION!

So the passage you state has been troubling to many people, myself included, at one time.

There are at least 3 possibilities that mean other than a loss of Salvation for a Child of God.

1. The writer is stating the IMPOSSIBILITY of a true born again Child of God to be lost.

2. The idea of TASTING, NOT INGESTING, the Holy Spirit. Just like one may taste wine, spew it out of their mouth, and NEVER get the effects of the wine, inebriation. One may partake in the Holy Spirit in the sense of trying Him out, taste His goodness, and then reject, or spit Him out, NEVER truly accepting, or ingesting Him.

3.I saw this commentary recently on these verses. I am not even slightly an expert in Greek, but I'd never saw this perspective before, and thought it was very interesting.

"Was It Impossible Now to Ever Renew Them Again to Repentance in Order to Spiritually Grow?To answer this pertinent question it is helpful to closely observe the participial phrase: “Since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The phrase “since they crucify again” is just one word in the Greek text anastauroō. It is a present active temporal[point in time] participle which is contemporaneous in time to the action of the main verb and that carries the idea of while doing,especially when it is related to the main verb. This could then be translated, “If they fall away, [it is impossible] to renew them again to repentance, while they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The writer of Hebrews is not shutting the door forever upon these believers experiencing spiritual growth again. But he is making it clear that this spiritual renewal will not occur while at the same time they persist in going back to the defunct Temple and its needless sacrifices."

The point is, as I stated, we should not let passages that we may not have a clear understanding, cloud our minds to the volumes of passages that are clear on an issue. And God is clear on this issue. He will NOT cast His Children into hell.

Be Blessed
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#47
I don't think grieving the Holy Spirit means what you think it means.
I hear you brother. Its funny, I didnt think it meant this until just a few days ago. In fact, I thought it had to be about Angels sinning. How can any being that is not eternal commit an eternal sin? Hmm. Thirty plus years ago, I was involved in a bible study of a book, I dont remember the title or the author but it was something like, "Difficult passages in scripture." Yea this was in 1990 to 1991. My pastors name was Scott Bullock. It was a tiny united Methodist church in Patterson louisiana, on hwy 182. Scott is still preaching, he is now at a church in New Iberia louisiana. About an hour away from where i live now.

Here are the verses:
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all
sins
and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes
against the Holy Spirit
will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal
sin
. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil
spirit
'."

Matthew 12:31, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.”

There are a couple of dozen verses that relate but, for now this is enough. I have studied this off and on over the years. When we studied it in that group, no one had any answers, and of course there was no internet or google we could just turn to. No cell phones either, well car phones with a battery the size of a small compact car. (thats a joke)

During the first study, I got the idea that, it wasnt something i had to be concerned about. Some people thought it was about suicide, related to a verse about sin that leads to death. Actually i dont think either of those verses relate to suicide. Some people thought it was only enlightened believers, living in the power of the holy spirit, which at the time, I sort of believed in but, didnt think God wanted that for me. Lets fast forward ten years or so. In October of 2003, I recieved the Holy spirit in power from God, or i recieved enlightenment. I really dont know what to call it. Scripture uses the term enlightenment. Thats fitting. God set me free in an instant of bondage i had been trying to set myself free from since i was a child. If you want to know about all the ways satan had me tied and dragged off and blinded, Ask. There are some of this in my previous posts on this site. I lierally felt like i was floating. It was the first time i ever experienced joy in my life. In fact not only was i free from bondage i knew about, over the coming years, it took about three years for me to fully comprehend just how much God removed from me in that instant. He removed me from chains i didnt even know that I had.

Soon after this, reading the word and hearing the word became a totally different thing. Oh i had been in the word. I had even listened the word nearly twenty four seven for three years solid after my divorce, just seeking the word for comfort as i was bereft. But now, the word was alive. Every word i heard i saw a connection to other verses, ad infinitum. If i tried to write down all God tells me in five minutes of reading or hearing his word, I could write twenty four seven for ten thousand years and still probably not express it all. And as i write, God gives me more. As i read God gives me more. So it was during that three years that God showed me so many different ways of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So, this is some of what i think it is today.

When a person attributes the works of God to Satan, that is blasphemy of the holy spirit.
When a person hardens their heart, permanently, That is blasphemy of the holy spirit.
When a person denies the Purity and God nature of Jesus, that is blasphemy of the holy spirit, as we know, he was born of the spirit.
I think you might be starting to get the idea, what i thought was something i had nothing to worry about was in fact, something people practice all the time. This particular sin however has a different connotation to it. This is an eternal sin in that, it never stops. The person doing it never stops doing it. It is perpetual. Any perpetual sin is Blasphemy of the holy spirit. And some that are not perpetual, are also. You could literally consider, that all of the damned, all commit this sin.
It is in fact, this sin, Blasphemy of the holy spirit, that Paul was writing about when he spoke...let me look that up. Yea thats why i looked it up. I attributed it to Paul but, God corrected me. It was not Paul. Here.

1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

The sin that leads to death?? Only one. Blaspheming the holy spirit. This verse is not talking about physical death but spiritual death, in other words, damnation.

Anyway i am sure you get my drift. These are things i think it means. What do you think it means? God has changed my mind about it over time. It is fine if you do not agree with me. I am always willing to be wrong. I still want to know what you think or believe because, i believe in sharing what we think and believe with one another we sharpen one another.

Your servant in Christ,
Joseph
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,836
113
63
#48
It is not about God is not strong enough to keep you. It is about, God is love. Without the ability to disobey God, We can not love God for "love for God is obedience to his commands" We can not obey if we have no choice. Even the angels had a choice. All God's creation will always have the same choice. Obey God or disobey God. Without that choice we can not love. But dont listen to me. Listen to the word. The verses are clear enough. Or even better yet, serve me in love. I challenge you to explain the meaning of these verses to me since obviously i do not understand them.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age[SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,[SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[SUB][/SUB]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,

[SUP]19 [/SUP]My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back,[SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Those verses are all about people who had salvation. Who as God states he desires, "For God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" Show me how these verses are not speaking of saved people??? Once saved always saved is a calvenist lie. It is satan taking hold of you and making you believe something that is not truth. God's word is truth. Test everything against his word. Teach me how i am wrong. Serve me unto God. Isnt that your job? its my job. It is my job to serve you. I will serve you anyway you ask of me. It is written, serve one another in love.

There are five different spiritual conditions shown in scripture as far as maturity goes. We know about maturity Paul talked about it. You should be eating meat yet you are still nursing.

1. The unbeliever who cant receive salvation. This unbeliever has grieved the holy spirit. He loves wickedness and hates righteousness. There is no hope for him. REmember the scepter in Jesus hand, the symbol of his authority, it has two sides, the front is love of righteousness, the reverse is hatred of wickedness. This is a person who worships Satan. he stands directly opposed to God. I didnt quote these verses if you want to know them i will hand them to you.
2. The newborn in Christ. thats Hebrews 10:26 quoted above. he can grieve the holy spirit by deliberately sinning after he has, "recieved the knowledge of the truth" This saved believer has to deliberately sin to lose his salvation.
3this is a believer who is between birth and enlightenment. I spent ten years here myself. This believer can lose his salvation grieving the holy spirit by, "being entangled again in it(the world) and overcome. thats 2 Peter 2:
4, The enlightened believer, who can lose his salvation forever grieving the holy spirit by, "falling away" thats chapter six in Hebrews.
5. This is about Angels. They are obviously believers, they too can lose their position however. We KNOW THIS, How? ONE SINGLE ACT of disobedience.

All of these verses are all talking about this verse
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all
sins
and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal
sin
. and this one from, Matthew 12:32[SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this isnt clear enough consider this, God is clearly showing us, Anyone, Any created being that we know of who can have eternal live with God can choose not to. They can lose salvation by grieving the holy spirit, and this sin can not be forgiven because it is a sin without end. Every other sin a man can repent. There is no repentance for a sin that does not end because you have to stop sinning to repent. Oh to be sure, we will all sin again, that is not what i mean. I mean that this sin is continual non stop eternal. I have cussed. That is sin. I did that tonight! I am not cussing right now. I just confessed that sin. God is faithful and just to forgive my sin and purify me from all unrighteousness. I can do that again tomorow, I will not do it on purpose. I do not want to do it. I agree with the law that it is good, it is no longer i who sin but sin which indwells me. Look at the perfection across the five items i listed. The unsaved, they have to be hardcore to grieve the holy spirit. The newborn has to deliberately sin. The teenager has to allow himself to be choked by the world, and the enlightened believer, Who I AM Thanks be to GOD, can grieve the holy spirit by merely falling away. Angels? Its even easier for them, and so it will be for us when we are with God as the angels are now. We all Know God created Satan. He was a glorious angel of light. He was jealous, (remember sin begins with wicked desire?) and wanted glory for himself. He chose to disobey God and deceived Eve. Other angels followed him. They were cast out of heaven. God is just. He does not hold us accountable for things we do not know. He does hold us accountable for everything we do know. My accountability to God is massive. My cup overflows. God has been giving me spiritual riches for fifteen years now since i was first enlightened. I recieved riches from God for ten years before that from the time I first turned my life over to a God I did not even believe in. God taught me his word as I grew up in a Catholic church. I heard his word over and over again week after week and i thought to myself, why do my parents believe this nonsense. people can not be raised from the dead. Nobody can walk on water. I did not believe. I did not have any faith. I was not saved. I was an unbeliever. However, I loved good and hated evil. The truth is, I was always saved. I will always be saved. I am saved. Because of the last line, "in my heart I loved good and hated evil" I tell you the truth, everyone who loves good and hates evil will be saved. this is the precise nature of the scepter in Jesus right hand. Even those who are not called before the king will be touched by this scepter and spared. (if you dont believe that you need to read RUTH) The scepter will only touch those who love righteousness and hate wickedness. The scepter, the ball on top of it is a beating heart. It is not a round shaped heart like teenage girls dot their I's with. It is the same shape and form as a mans heart. This heart loves God and all good things, it loves righteousness and hates wickedness. If you think of magnetism, certain poles attract, and certain poles repel. The power of this scepter is like that. This heart must touch, every heart that is the same as itself and it can not touch any heart that opposes itself. In the case of the Scepter, LIKE hearts attract. Opposite hearts REPEL. Magnetism is of this world. Just like everything else of this world it is the opposite of all things of God. In magnetism like poles repel and dissimilar poles attract. With God, Like hearts attract, in fact no power can keep them apart, and dissimilar poles repel and no power, not even God's can force them together.



To grieve the Holy Spirit means to not want to be holy- which is unforgivable because we should be striving to stay spiritually clean, and how can we spend an eternity with a Holy God when we don’t like holiness?


 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,836
113
63
#50
Hello OneFaith,



[/B]Just fyi, the reference to the kings of the earth committing adultery with the woman, is not referring to literal, physical sexual relations but spiritual adultery. An example would be like when Israel was unfaithful to God by worshiping the graven images (idols) of the surrounding nations, they were said to be playing the harlot, committing spiritual adultery against God.

Here in Revelation 17, The kings of the earth committing adultery with the woman, is in symbolic for engaging with her in her her pagan practices and teachings. The scripture goes on to say that "the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated by the wine of her adulteries," which again is referring to the inhabitants of the earth engaging in her pagan beliefs and practices.

Therefore, those whom God has chosen, He is saying to those who have become involved with the practices and teachings of the woman "come out of her my people, so that you will not partake of her plagues."
I agree to disagree. The very verse before that clearly shows that it is speaking of sexual sin. “The wine of her adulteries”, “committed adultery with her.”
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#51
Thank you so much for your post and for realizing, I am sincere. I certainly can be sarcastic and in fact God knows i often am but I am completely sincere in what I post and if not generally i state it in the post by saying in paranthese (that is a joke) or (that is sarcasm)

That being said, I like to take the word of God at face value. Also, I believe fully that God never contradicts himself. People will often say, scripture has too many contradictions it can not be truth. What others see as contradictions I see as the language of humility. You see, God's language is humility. God is humble. The proud can not comprehend it. Satan knows God's word better than I ever will and yet, he hasnt got a clue what any of it means. This is why it is written, "Humility comes before wisdom." I have posted here years ago about humility and the practice of it. What does that look like? Most people tell me it is an attitude and nothing more. NO action required. I say, the very first order of humility is something God can not do. Because God is true and every man is a liar, God is truth and God is faithful, God can not sin as sin is defined as opposing God. I have to be willing, to be a sinner. I have to be willing to be wrong. IN fact if i carry it through, I have to be willing at all times to be wrong about anything. In fact didnt even paul write, "why not rather be wrong?" Or did he write wronged, ah its probably wronged, in other words sinned against. that was about treating brothers, serving one another in love. I should look at that verse since it is in my heart. 1cor6 vs 7 it is "wronged" but sinning or being wrong about what i think or believe fits also. I love being wrong. It gives God every opportunity to correct me and correct me he does. I receive correction from God literally hundreds of times daily. I do not want to be wrong of course, but dont we have to be willing to be wrong about everything before we can ever hope to be right about anything? Thats something i write years ago. God taught this to me i dunno somtime in the last fifteen years since i recieved enlightenment from Him. I just try to practice it every day all day. That is just one precept of humility. willing to be wrong. weirdly the next one is willing to be right. God tells me things that seem insane. He has been telling me many things for ten years that i have only been allowed to share with a few people. They are things that I can not make happen. NO man can make limbs grow on his body by his will. No person can do such things. We can not change even the color of our heads by our own will, yet, God has told me my body will change and how it will change. God has shown me my own death. Eventually there will be a time, i think it is coming soon but i dont know only God knows, when he will have me say these things to more people. Publicly, probably here and other places. Not in churches made by the hands of men but where ever two or more are Gathered in His name, like you and I are now. So ya, being willing to be right. People dont consider that humility at all. Its funny because for a believer, actually being right is...well its like dirt getting up and walking around. God has given me names. Unworthy of Unworthy, sinner of sinners, among others. He has shown me my sackcloth since i was four years old. For ten years he has told me i am one of two witnesses. The first time he showed me this i was fasting and praying. I gotta say, ok God hold up. Lett me call bull. NOT ME. I mean sure you know i am willing i am not saying no but, you are seriously trying to tell me that a book written near two thousand years ago, has a chapter in it that talks about me??? God thats nuts. Of course God then said, well it has to be someone doesnt it? So i argue, hold up, didnt John know who he was from birth? what about that? And God corrects me and says, where does it say that any prophet, knew he was a prophet from birth? Then HE said, havent i spoken prophecy from your mouth? I have to admit, God does this all the time. I mean, i am just a man. I do not know the future but i speak about it continually and every time i do, it is because the spirit in me moves me to do it and speaks with my mouth, because after all my mouth belongs to God, i continually offer all of my body to him as a living and holy sacrifice which is my spiritual act of worship. It can only be God speaking, using my mouth. I cant tell you the future right now, and strangely enough i am losing alot of my memory. When I prayed about this, God told me, you must decrease so i may increase in you. How can i argue with that??? So its strange, i cant remember things i should about life and seem to forget more and more but, the word? This i seem to remember more and more and see more and more clearly and it is so beautiful it is like staring into the fface of God unveiled. I could be out of my mind. Paul said that, maybe it is that we are out of our mind as you say, if so it is for God, but if we are in our right mind, it is for you.

I tell you brother, you will be blessed richly by God because you were willing to believe that i was not being sarcastic. You were correct. I trust God that his word is truth and his word for you is, "The enlightenment you have not yet recieved is coming to you. Obey me and more than you ever dreamed or hoped for will be yours." Ya there is no way i can know your spiritual condition. You are certainly not newborn. see God just corrected me. Of course there is a way. The holy spirit is the way. The spirit within me as testified about your heart to me through your words and kindness. It has told me you are a nearly mature spiritual being. Born years ago and faithful. having passed the trials and and tribulations and being nearly in all ways Godly, yet you still lack this to receive enlightenment. OBEY ME, Says the Lord our God to you. If you love me you will obey my commands and you do love me. Practice loving me by obeying me. You know the fulfilled law, LOVE YOUR NEIGhbor as yourself. IF love for me is obedience, dont you think love for others is obedience also? YES GO FORTH AND OBEY. YOU want to lead, make yourself a servant to all. I tell you the truth, you only love God as much as the person in your life you obey the least. Tell your family and friends that you are their servant. SERVE THEM IN LOVE. PROSTRATE YOURSELF BEFORE THEM, WASH THEIR FEET, PRAY FOR THEM, let these words always be on your lips, what can i do for you today? certainly it is fairly easy to love the Godly, they are easy to obey, the things they want you to do are Holy and righteous they want you to help them look after orphans and widows, they want you to help them give people clean water, do these things obey the Godly who are in your life. DO THIS ALSO, OBEY the wicked who are in your life, the people you despise, the ones you do not want to be near, tell them also, you are their servant and act like their servant. If they tell you to go away? Then your service to them is complete. If they tell you go with them a mile, go with them two. Whatever they ask of you, give them more. HOWEVER if they ask you to sin to cause harm to another person or to rob or cheat or use or abuse, you know the law, do not do anything wicked they ask you even if they demand it of you at threat on your life refuse them this, but only this. The truth is, YOu only love God as much as the person you love the least. You only obey God as much as the person you Obey the least. If you want to be faithful to God, consider the person right now that you have anger with, and go serve them in love. First, pray God prepare your heart and enable you to forgive as you were forgiven. Were you not forgiven and provided for all that you needed for salvation and eternal life before you were even born? So to we should forgive while our enemies sin against us. While our loved ones sin against us. Forgive before they even repent. You can even now choose and ask of God, FAther prepare my heart to always forgive everyone all sin against me or my family or loved ones or any sin i see or think i see, empower me to forgive all these sins just as you forgave me. IN your sons name we pray.

Your servant in Christ,
Joseph
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
81
48
#52
Thank you so much for your post and for realizing, I am sincere. I certainly can be sarcastic and in fact God knows i often am but I am completely sincere in what I post and if not generally i state it in the post by saying in paranthese (that is a joke) or (that is sarcasm)

That being said, I like to take the word of God at face value. Also, I believe fully that God never contradicts himself. People will often say, scripture has too many contradictions it can not be truth. What others see as contradictions I see as the language of humility. You see, God's language is humility. God is humble. The proud can not comprehend it. Satan knows God's word better than I ever will and yet, he hasnt got a clue what any of it means. This is why it is written, "Humility comes before wisdom." I have posted here years ago about humility and the practice of it. What does that look like? Most people tell me it is an attitude and nothing more. NO action required. I say, the very first order of humility is something God can not do. Because God is true and every man is a liar, God is truth and God is faithful, God can not sin as sin is defined as opposing God. I have to be willing, to be a sinner. I have to be willing to be wrong. IN fact if i carry it through, I have to be willing at all times to be wrong about anything. In fact didnt even paul write, "why not rather be wrong?" Or did he write wronged, ah its probably wronged, in other words sinned against. that was about treating brothers, serving one another in love. I should look at that verse since it is in my heart. 1cor6 vs 7 it is "wronged" but sinning or being wrong about what i think or believe fits also. I love being wrong. It gives God every opportunity to correct me and correct me he does. I receive correction from God literally hundreds of times daily. I do not want to be wrong of course, but dont we have to be willing to be wrong about everything before we can ever hope to be right about anything? Thats something i write years ago. God taught this to me i dunno somtime in the last fifteen years since i recieved enlightenment from Him. I just try to practice it every day all day. That is just one precept of humility. willing to be wrong. weirdly the next one is willing to be right. God tells me things that seem insane. He has been telling me many things for ten years that i have only been allowed to share with a few people. They are things that I can not make happen. NO man can make limbs grow on his body by his will. No person can do such things. We can not change even the color of our heads by our own will, yet, God has told me my body will change and how it will change. God has shown me my own death. Eventually there will be a time, i think it is coming soon but i dont know only God knows, when he will have me say these things to more people. Publicly, probably here and other places. Not in churches made by the hands of men but where ever two or more are Gathered in His name, like you and I are now. So ya, being willing to be right. People dont consider that humility at all. Its funny because for a believer, actually being right is...well its like dirt getting up and walking around. God has given me names. Unworthy of Unworthy, sinner of sinners, among others. He has shown me my sackcloth since i was four years old. For ten years he has told me i am one of two witnesses. The first time he showed me this i was fasting and praying. I gotta say, ok God hold up. Lett me call bull. NOT ME. I mean sure you know i am willing i am not saying no but, you are seriously trying to tell me that a book written near two thousand years ago, has a chapter in it that talks about me??? God thats nuts. Of course God then said, well it has to be someone doesnt it? So i argue, hold up, didnt John know who he was from birth? what about that? And God corrects me and says, where does it say that any prophet, knew he was a prophet from birth? Then HE said, havent i spoken prophecy from your mouth? I have to admit, God does this all the time. I mean, i am just a man. I do not know the future but i speak about it continually and every time i do, it is because the spirit in me moves me to do it and speaks with my mouth, because after all my mouth belongs to God, i continually offer all of my body to him as a living and holy sacrifice which is my spiritual act of worship. It can only be God speaking, using my mouth. I cant tell you the future right now, and strangely enough i am losing alot of my memory. When I prayed about this, God told me, you must decrease so i may increase in you. How can i argue with that??? So its strange, i cant remember things i should about life and seem to forget more and more but, the word? This i seem to remember more and more and see more and more clearly and it is so beautiful it is like staring into the fface of God unveiled. I could be out of my mind. Paul said that, maybe it is that we are out of our mind as you say, if so it is for God, but if we are in our right mind, it is for you.

I tell you brother, you will be blessed richly by God because you were willing to believe that i was not being sarcastic. You were correct. I trust God that his word is truth and his word for you is, "The enlightenment you have not yet recieved is coming to you. Obey me and more than you ever dreamed or hoped for will be yours." Ya there is no way i can know your spiritual condition. You are certainly not newborn. see God just corrected me. Of course there is a way. The holy spirit is the way. The spirit within me as testified about your heart to me through your words and kindness. It has told me you are a nearly mature spiritual being. Born years ago and faithful. having passed the trials and and tribulations and being nearly in all ways Godly, yet you still lack this to receive enlightenment. OBEY ME, Says the Lord our God to you. If you love me you will obey my commands and you do love me. Practice loving me by obeying me. You know the fulfilled law, LOVE YOUR NEIGhbor as yourself. IF love for me is obedience, dont you think love for others is obedience also? YES GO FORTH AND OBEY. YOU want to lead, make yourself a servant to all. I tell you the truth, you only love God as much as the person in your life you obey the least. Tell your family and friends that you are their servant. SERVE THEM IN LOVE. PROSTRATE YOURSELF BEFORE THEM, WASH THEIR FEET, PRAY FOR THEM, let these words always be on your lips, what can i do for you today? certainly it is fairly easy to love the Godly, they are easy to obey, the things they want you to do are Holy and righteous they want you to help them look after orphans and widows, they want you to help them give people clean water, do these things obey the Godly who are in your life. DO THIS ALSO, OBEY the wicked who are in your life, the people you despise, the ones you do not want to be near, tell them also, you are their servant and act like their servant. If they tell you to go away? Then your service to them is complete. If they tell you go with them a mile, go with them two. Whatever they ask of you, give them more. HOWEVER if they ask you to sin to cause harm to another person or to rob or cheat or use or abuse, you know the law, do not do anything wicked they ask you even if they demand it of you at threat on your life refuse them this, but only this. The truth is, YOu only love God as much as the person you love the least. You only obey God as much as the person you Obey the least. If you want to be faithful to God, consider the person right now that you have anger with, and go serve them in love. First, pray God prepare your heart and enable you to forgive as you were forgiven. Were you not forgiven and provided for all that you needed for salvation and eternal life before you were even born? So to we should forgive while our enemies sin against us. While our loved ones sin against us. Forgive before they even repent. You can even now choose and ask of God, FAther prepare my heart to always forgive everyone all sin against me or my family or loved ones or any sin i see or think i see, empower me to forgive all these sins just as you forgave me. IN your sons name we pray.

Your servant in Christ,
Joseph
Hi Joseph - pretty sure that what you have written is worth reading but that monograph is literally unreadable.
Small paragraphs are the way to go...
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
6,970
258
83
#53
I agree to disagree. The very verse before that clearly shows that it is speaking of sexual sin. “The wine of her adulteries”, “committed adultery with her.”
First of all, the woman who rides the beast, is not a literal woman:

"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. - Rev.17:18

The woman/city sits on seven hills:

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. - Rev.17:9

So, the scripture reveals that the woman is a city, which sits on seven hills, and you think that the context is referring to literal sexual intercourse? How can the kings of the earth commit literal sexual immorality with a city? Since the woman is figurative representing a city, then the adultery that the kings of the earth will be committing with her cannot possibly be speaking about literal intercourse.

The wine of her adulteries, is symbolic referring to the kings of the earth engaging in her pagan practices which are contrary to the word of God.
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#54

To grieve the Holy Spirit means to not want to be holy- which is unforgivable because we should be striving to stay spiritually clean, and how can we spend an eternity with a Holy God when we don’t like holiness?



Actually we are talking apples and oranges. I may have incorrectly said, grieving the spirit but I intended to say Blasphemy against. What you said has value but is not perfect. EVERY sin grieves the holy spirit. Just like if you have a child and they get hurt, it hurts you, sin hurts us and others around us and hurts God because he is our father and our creator and loves us. This does not mean, a desire to be impure as you are implying. It isnt grieving the spirit that the verses mention is unforgivable. IT is BLASPHEMY, there is a huge difference between the two. You can grieve God accidentally or incidentally, Blasphemy is DELEBIRATE. I just skimmed my post to be certain, you are speaking of grieving, i was speaking of
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, different animals entirely.

Thank you so much for your post.
Your servant in Christ,
Joseph
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#55
I agree to disagree. The very verse before that clearly shows that it is speaking of sexual sin. “The wine of her adulteries”, “committed adultery with her.”
Guys? Actually i think you are both right about this and both wrong also. all at the same time. this is a great opportunity to start a new thread and research this subject and see what we can learn from one another yes?

Your servant in Christ
Joseph
 
Mar 11, 2018
19
1
0
#56
Hi All,

I do not know what happened to my post.

Mark 3:29 Lexicon: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin "--

Definition: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

From the author:

Concordant
Literal
New Testament
Mark 3:28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin --

Quote from the author above


First of all, the ten translations above, all done by very reputable scholars, all say the same thing: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven -- ever! can't even be honest enough to translate ALL the words
Tony's reply: What good is their reputation if they God has in that verse? Notice that the Concordant Literal New Testament above gives what they left out, from the Greek . . . “is having no pardon for the eon . . .” Yet the “very reputable scholars” (according to Matt) didn't even have the guts to translate every word. I guess they thought their reputation was more important to be kept than God's.


Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Matt 12:1 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Let’s see: “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men”

My Comment: This includes the blasphemy of the holy spirit.

“but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men”

Comment: How long will it not be forgiven?

“whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come.”

Comment: An age is not an infinite period of time.


1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

What death is this?

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Comment: Notice that death is destroyed in the lake of fire. It is the death of death.

Matt 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1 Cor 5:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Comment: The sin unto death is being eventually saved by Fire, which is the Lord. The servant will lose out in the first resurrection but will be eventually saved. Notice “darkness” inMatt 25:30 in contrast with “lake of fire” in Rev 20:14. The lake of fire is the Lord.

1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Comment: The last enemy to be destroyed is death, not any man. If any man was to die before this statement, then he will be saved because the last enemy to be destroyed is death, not him.
 

claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
301
43
28
#57
First, I'd argue the 'lukewarm' aren't REALLY Christians.

Then, I'd argue that they aren't REALLY saved, either.

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
lawlessness=sin

A Christian who still lives in sin is no Christian at all, they are spiritually deceiving themselves, and because their lifestyle is that of sin, Jesus can't have a relationship with them and tell them "I Never Knew You!"

So, while no Christians are going to hell, some that consider themselves Christians are.

REAL Christians are devoted to putting an end to sin, going to Church regularly and being in community regularly, and doing good works for rewards in heaven!
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#58
Hi Joseph - pretty sure that what you have written is worth reading but that monograph is literally unreadable.
Small paragraphs are the way to go...
Maybe It was written that way so only people with patience and humility can read it? I dont think about it i just write it.
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
12
0
#59
Here is what i have written that has never been answered. Help me understand how this is false?

It is written, "love the lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."
It is written, "Love for God is obedience to his commands"


If i do not have a choice, can I love God? this is the most concise it can possibly be. I can not choose to obey unless the option is available to me to disobey. This is why God gave Adam the command, "do not eat" from that tree. It has been argued, we will be perfected so we wont sin. Sorry people, ADAM was perfect. God made him and said it was GOOD.

All you people who believe a person can not deny christ after they are saved, have not yet addressed this question. Please do.
 
Mar 11, 2018
19
1
0
#60
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind



1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.