Will The Holy Spirit Remain After The Rapture?

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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,509
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#41
Paul doesn't state who the restrainer is...
The "restrainer" in 2Thess 2v7 is without doubt The Trinity Who restrains the Devil from putting the "mystery of iniquity" (his plan of evil) into full operation until God's epochal time is at hand. Job chapters 1 & 2, Psalm 76v10, 2Chron 18v18-22, Rev 5v7 with 6v1,3,5,7,9,12, 8v1.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
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#42
Paul doesn't state who the restrainer is. In 2 Thessalonians 2 he assures the church that the day of the Lord has not come because
false teachers are spreading lies about his second coming, (they still are), He goes on to say this

Let no one deceive you in any way for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself
against every so called god or object of worship so he takes his seat in the temple of God proclaiming
himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you. And you know what
is restraining him now so that he will be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already
at work, only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one
will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his
appearing and his coming.

2 Thessalonians 2: 3-8

In this passage Paul doesn't state who the restrainer is. It is assumed to be the Holy Spirit but could really
be the Archangel Michael who according to Jewish belief is the protector of Israel. Its Michael who is sent to Daniel
and who casts Satan and his host out of Heaven.

Gods wrath is poured out on the earth at Christ second coming when the saints are raptured and the Antichrist
is destroyed with the breath of his mouth. The righteous dead are resurrected and those alive will go with them
to meet the Lord in the air as he descends to the mount of olives.

It would seem the Spirit of Christ (the anointed teacher) as the Holy Spirit of God was the messenger sent called the Archangel Michael.

Angel simply meaning messenger. And the word of God as the messenger of God became flesh.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#44
I call it nonsense too.
Matth 24:

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

No rapture, doesn't matter what you call it- believers are being told to watch out for the second coming which is after those days of tribulation.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
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43
#45
The antichrists (many) are those who rejected Christ coming in the flesh for a one time outward demonstration. The veil is rent signaling the beginning of the last days, as the last time.

In verses 26 and 27 we are warned of the wiles of the devil the spirit (singular) of the antichrists (many) .In so much they we do not need a man seen to teach us rather than the unsen Holy Spirit that abides in the believer.

We walk by faith, the unseen eternal and not by sight, the temporal as that seen. We simply do not wrestle against flesh and blood as the things seen

The unbelieving Jew needs to hear and believe the gospel .Have the faith that comes from hearing God not seen They have set up a wailing wall as that seen against, as it is written


Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.1 John 2:18-25

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:18-25


Excellent points!!

But I am speaking about when the Jews believe a person is their Messiah, and then that person offers ungodly sacrifice in the newly rebuilt Temple like both Daniel and Revelation speak of.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#46
Excellent points!!

But I am speaking about when the Jews believe a person is their Messiah, and then that person offers ungodly sacrifice in the newly rebuilt Temple like both Daniel and Revelation speak of.
I would offer .The Son of man as that seen was sent as a messenger (angel) of God.

We are are informed in Hebrews 13 we should be carefull in whom we do entertain to include this Christian forum. They could be a angel or messenger sent either to us needing to hear what they say, or to them, they needing us .

Believers as sons of God are led by the Holy Spirit of God in the same way as those who have no form , by the faith of Christ that works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God. (imputed righteousness )

God sent Abel as a messenger , his brother Cain who had "no faith" killed the messenger, just as the Pharisees with Sadducees killed the Son of man, Jesus.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

I am not claiming to be a angel.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
#47
I would offer .The Son of man as that seen was sent as a messenger (angel) of God.

We are are informed in Hebrews 13 we should be carefull in whom we do entertain to include this Christian forum. They could be a angel or messenger sent either to us needing to hear what they say, or to them, they needing us .

Believers as sons of God are led by the Holy Spirit of God in the same way as those who have no form , by the faith of Christ that works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God. (imputed righteousness )

God sent Abel as a messenger , his brother Cain who had "no faith" killed the messenger, just as the Pharisees with Sadducees killed the Son of man, Jesus.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

I am not claiming to be a angel.


It would definitely be an honor to communicate to an angel of God via this forum!! I should have stated then in my last response:

I believe I am seeing the enemy of God multiples times every day. It is odd and entertaining simultaneously. I always listen to a local station here Grace FM that Monday - Friday is non stop preaching with several pastors every 1/2 hour 24/7. And typically while driving down the road, listening, and in prayer, praise, worship, or being literally touched by the hand of God...every once in a few cars that driving towards me will be someone that looks like a human, but I sense evil among them. And generally, they literally have their heads turned right at me even while we pass one another just glaring at me. It really bugged me at first, because typically people look forward and are concentrating on driving. But not these few. It's as if they can turn their heads in a full circle and when I am really connected in spirit is when they show up. I am pleased the ENEMY OF GOD KNOWS ME, or knows that I am worshiping our God and it seems to seriously bother them. It's odd, my father passed away just over a year ago and I really rededicated my life. And ever since then, the gift of discernment has been really making me aware of things I never noticed before. But I would not have it any other way. I love the fact that the abyss full of demonic entities and evil is on high alert when we are engulfed in praise to our Amazing God!! It makes me wanna dance all over the Adversary's intentions by making them uncomfortable because I am allowing our God to be alive and well in me!!
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
#48
It would definitely be an honor to communicate to an angel of God via this forum!! I should have stated then in my last response:

I believe I am seeing the enemy of God multiples times every day. It is odd and entertaining simultaneously. I always listen to a local station here Grace FM that Monday - Friday is non stop preaching with several pastors every 1/2 hour 24/7. And typically while driving down the road, listening, and in prayer, praise, worship, or being literally touched by the hand of God...every once in a few cars that driving towards me will be someone that looks like a human, but I sense evil among them. And generally, they literally have their heads turned right at me even while we pass one another just glaring at me. It really bugged me at first, because typically people look forward and are concentrating on driving. But not these few. It's as if they can turn their heads in a full circle and when I am really connected in spirit is when they show up. I am pleased the ENEMY OF GOD KNOWS ME, or knows that I am worshiping our God and it seems to seriously bother them. It's odd, my father passed away just over a year ago and I really rededicated my life. And ever since then, the gift of discernment has been really making me aware of things I never noticed before. But I would not have it any other way. I love the fact that the abyss full of demonic entities and evil is on high alert when we are engulfed in praise to our Amazing God!! It makes me wanna dance all over the Adversary's intentions by making them uncomfortable because I am allowing our God to be alive and well in me!!
I would be careful on how we walk or understand our God "not seen". The idea of possibly being entertained by angels as a messenger of God is more of what they say and does the scripture confirm? Even with Paul in Acts 17 the warning given in 1 John 2:26-27 applies. We do not need a man, seen to teach us. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither do we confirm the spiritual truths of God through our experiences.

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.Acts 17:10-12

Using our eyes as a way of confirming we believe through experience can be dangerous . We do understand God by outward appearances as experiences. If we start imagining others can tell we do have a relationship God as you mentioned (they literally have their heads turned right at me even while we pass one another just glaring at me.) I would resist seeing it could come from false pride and focus on the driving .

The accuser of the brethren, the father of lies accuses us day and night and can give us as an illusion false pride if we use our imagination as a source of faith.

It is the word of God, as it is written with the word it representing the faith of God not seen that makes him flee . The Holy Spirit as our teacher, comforter, guide is also accredited to the one who brings to our mind that which he has taught us.

.2 Corinthians 4:18 which I am offering below gives us a good sure foundation. It was violated in the garden of Eden when the father of lies, Satan as a the god of this world not seen gave the illusion that which is seen speaking through as creature violating the first commandment to have no other gods (not seen) before Him.

While we look not at "the things" which are seen, but at "the things" which are not seen: for "the things" which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

A clear distinction between the things seen and those not seen must be made. It there that the devil can get a foot hold or a foot in the door to sell his lies.

This is also shown in an example in Mathew 16 the things of men seen offend the things of God not seen . Just as the father of lies used a creature as that seen in the garden today he uses other kinds of creatures as men like Peter. Study on how we can mix faith in what we hear or see comparing it to as it is written .It makes the devil flee

Note … (purple in parenthesis) my addition to remind of the .2 Corinthians 4:18 principle or law of faith above

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter , Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God,(not seen the eternal) but those that be of men.(that seen the temporal) Mathew 16:22-23
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
#49
I would be careful on how we walk or understand our God "not seen". The idea of possibly being entertained by angels as a messenger of God is more of what they say and does the scripture confirm? Even with Paul in Acts 17 the warning given in 1 John 2:26-27 applies. We do not need a man, seen to teach us. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither do we confirm the spiritual truths of God through our experiences.

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.Acts 17:10-12

Using our eyes as a way of confirming we believe through experience can be dangerous . We do understand God by outward appearances as experiences. If we start imagining others can tell we do have a relationship God as you mentioned (they literally have their heads turned right at me even while we pass one another just glaring at me.) I would resist seeing it could come from false pride and focus on the driving .

The accuser of the brethren, the father of lies accuses us day and night and can give us as an illusion false pride if we use our imagination as a source of faith.

It is the word of God, as it is written with the word it representing the faith of God not seen that makes him flee . The Holy Spirit as our teacher, comforter, guide is also accredited to the one who brings to our mind that which he has taught us.

.2 Corinthians 4:18 which I am offering below gives us a good sure foundation. It was violated in the garden of Eden when the father of lies, Satan as a the god of this world not seen gave the illusion that which is seen speaking through as creature violating the first commandment to have no other gods (not seen) before Him.

While we look not at "the things" which are seen, but at "the things" which are not seen: for "the things" which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

A clear distinction between the things seen and those not seen must be made. It there that the devil can get a foot hold or a foot in the door to sell his lies.

This is also shown in an example in Mathew 16 the things of men seen offend the things of God not seen . Just as the father of lies used a creature as that seen in the garden today he uses other kinds of creatures as men like Peter. Study on how we can mix faith in what we hear or see comparing it to as it is written .It makes the devil flee

Note … (purple in parenthesis) my addition to remind of the .2 Corinthians 4:18 principle or law of faith above

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter , Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God,(not seen the eternal) but those that be of men.(that seen the temporal) Mathew 16:22-23

I definitely appreciate your caution and warning!! It is welcomed indeed!!

I was merely pointing out what takes place in my worship while driving. It would be definitely classified as a distraction. But, just like within the confides of our homes as we read the scripture or begin to pray, that is the time we suddenly remember everything we forgot to do, the telephone rings, the dogs decide to fight, a sudden loud bang is heard on the side of your home, etc....it is a distraction to keep us from communicating with God.

We already know that our Adversary is afraid of the weakest believers in Christ when they decide to pray. Our Adversary knows what God does when we pray, read our scripture, worship Him. And our Adversary will flood us with thoughts, distractions, anything to get us to stop connecting to God.

This is why I am convinced of what I believe these beings are that drive past and give me deadly looks, mad looks, some even swaying their arms outside their window...it is to get me to concentrate on them rather to get deeper in my worship with God!!
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,131
484
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#51
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

From all that i read in the word and all the typology that is given, God will give all a chance and than close probation, than Jesus will come and that is it. It is finished, no second chances, and no need to give the spirit to the lost because it is too late.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,131
484
83
#52
Rev 6:16,17 When the wicked see Christ come, they cry out to the rocks and mountains, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Matt 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

1 Cor 15:52 "For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised."

Psa 50:3 "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence."

Rev 1:7 "Every eye shall see him. "

Matt 24:30,31 "Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
"He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to gather His saints.)

To say that the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be secret, in view of these clear texts of Scripture, and in the absence of any text that even hints at His coming being secret, is to deny the Bible as the Word of God.


The secret rapturists claim that during the tribulation those not raptured will be given another chance to be saved. Let it be categorically stated that nowhere does Scripture speak of a second chance, nor does the Bible anywhere speak of people being saved after Jesus comes. This is just another manmade doctrine that is indeed pleasing to the carnal heart of man. Actually, the Bible teaches the opposite. Notice these clear texts of Scripture:

2 Cor 6:2 "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation."

Rev 22:11,12 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me." (Evidently probation closes just prior to the Second Advent.)

Jer 8:20 "The harvest (day of second coming) is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

When Jesus comes the second time, He carries "in his hand a sharp sickle" (Rev 14:14). This is the reaping time after sixty centuries of the sowing of the seeds of sin. This is the harvest time, and "the harvest is the end of the world" (Matt 13:39). "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped" (Rev 14:16). Truly did Jeremiah say, "The harvest is past ... and we are not saved" (Jer 8:20). There can be no saving after the reaping of earth's harvest at the coming of Christ.

When Jesus and His holy angels appear, then "before him shall be gathered all nations" (Matt 25:32). There will only be two classes in that great company. The destiny of each has been set by what he did before the coming of Christ.

Let us stand firm on the Word of God alone and reject these man made, man pleasing ideas that form the bulk of the whole secret rapture theory. As we have noticed, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will come the second time in glorious majesty to take His redeemed home with Him. It will be a personal, visible, and earthshaking event that everyone alive will know about. The righteous will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17), whereas the wicked will be slain by the brightness of that coming (2 Thes 2:8). Let us carefully study our Bibles that we will not be deceived concerning this most important and wonderful hope, the second coming of Jesus.
Once probation closes you are lost or saved. The time of trouble will come but this will not change which side people are on because they have already made up their minds.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#53
I disagree. Rightly divide the word of truth.

What if a member of the body of Christ takes the mark of the beast?

So, only part of the body of Christ will suffer the great tribulation since most are dead or will be dead by that time.
Good post
Lets take a little more circumspect look.
Was the Holy Spirit present before the church?
Yes.
When Jesus left, he transferred the Holy Spirit to rhe disciples.
Then more was poured out in the upper room.
The Holy Spirit is manifest in measure, not just one place.
What will happen at the rapture ia a huge void of his manifest presence.
Heck even king David and Saul both recognized the presence of the Holy Spirit.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,949
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#54
Rev 6:16,17 When the wicked see Christ come, they cry out to the rocks and mountains, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Matt 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

1 Cor 15:52 "For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised."

Psa 50:3 "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence."

Rev 1:7 "Every eye shall see him. "

Matt 24:30,31 "Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
"He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to gather His saints.)

To say that the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be secret, in view of these clear texts of Scripture, and in the absence of any text that even hints at His coming being secret, is to deny the Bible as the Word of God.


The secret rapturists claim that during the tribulation those not raptured will be given another chance to be saved. Let it be categorically stated that nowhere does Scripture speak of a second chance, nor does the Bible anywhere speak of people being saved after Jesus comes. This is just another manmade doctrine that is indeed pleasing to the carnal heart of man. Actually, the Bible teaches the opposite. Notice these clear texts of Scripture:

2 Cor 6:2 "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation."

Rev 22:11,12 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me." (Evidently probation closes just prior to the Second Advent.)

Jer 8:20 "The harvest (day of second coming) is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

When Jesus comes the second time, He carries "in his hand a sharp sickle" (Rev 14:14). This is the reaping time after sixty centuries of the sowing of the seeds of sin. This is the harvest time, and "the harvest is the end of the world" (Matt 13:39). "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped" (Rev 14:16). Truly did Jeremiah say, "The harvest is past ... and we are not saved" (Jer 8:20). There can be no saving after the reaping of earth's harvest at the coming of Christ.

When Jesus and His holy angels appear, then "before him shall be gathered all nations" (Matt 25:32). There will only be two classes in that great company. The destiny of each has been set by what he did before the coming of Christ.

Let us stand firm on the Word of God alone and reject these man made, man pleasing ideas that form the bulk of the whole secret rapture theory. As we have noticed, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will come the second time in glorious majesty to take His redeemed home with Him. It will be a personal, visible, and earthshaking event that everyone alive will know about. The righteous will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17), whereas the wicked will be slain by the brightness of that coming (2 Thes 2:8). Let us carefully study our Bibles that we will not be deceived concerning this most important and wonderful hope, the second coming of Jesus.
Once probation closes you are lost or saved. The time of trouble will come but this will not change which side people are on because they have already made up their minds.
No vs 31 of mat 24 says angels gather. Not Jesus,and that they are gathered from heaven,not earth.
You got rev 14 totally wrong. Go re read. That harvest is during the trib. And is Jews following the 144k already in heaven.
In fact rev 14 forever eliminates any notion of anything BUT. a pretrib rapture.
... And yes do discard those man centered end time guesses.
Test fit doctrines. See if they fit
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#55
The body of Christ will not be raptured. We will face persecution. Everyone that does not take the mark of the beast will not be able to buy or sell. Some will be killed others will be put in jail. And it will be like the time of Noah. There will be monsters on the earth. (demons)
Noah didn't ascend after the flood.
He DECENDED.
He came back to earth.
Jesus told us to compare him and lot to his coming.
Jesus taught ;departure prejudgement. Return postjudgement.
But thats just Jesus. He could be...right
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#56
Noah didn't ascend after the flood.
He DECENDED.
He came back to earth.
Jesus told us to compare him and lot to his coming.
Jesus taught ;departure prejudgement. Return postjudgement.
But thats just Jesus. He could be...right
What do you mean Noah didn't ascend?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#58
Good news.
The church is raptured pretrib.

Therefore comfort one another with that word
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
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#60
Good news.
The church is raptured pretrib.

Therefore comfort one another with that word
The bad news, after tribulation comes, you will all be let down when you're not. And then you will all be mocked at for it.

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Jesus said the angels the gathering of his elect occurs after the tribulation. I believe him.

Pre-trib...the most fabricated, widely held, deceitful false doctrine that has ever entered the church. The list of fabrications are truly endless and impressive!